Another wonderful obit

"platypus" wrote:

> And the United Nations wasn't set up until late 1945.- Hide quoted text -


Which would be why I put 'united nations' in lower case, YTC.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

"platypus" wrote:


> Germany?- Hide quoted text -


Heh. Nope! It was a somewhat rhetorical question.
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"platypus"  wrote:

> Of course, France was also a member of the League of Nations.

Heh. No-one loves a Smartarse!
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

AW wrote:
> TOG@Toil" wrote:
>> But some bugger's nicked the paper so I don't have the reference.
>> Telegraph, a couple of days ago, and some old Royal Naval pilot who
>> attacked the French Fleet in 1940 at Oran. Lined up his Swordfish for
>> its torpedo run, and the fish hung up and wouldn't drop. Later
>> involved with fighting the Vichy French. Worth a google.
>
>
> The DT website isn't very helpful....
>
> Meanwhile I found this the other day which made me chuckle. The 2nd
> page of this pdf has a nice wartime illustration of the flags of the
> united nations that were fighting for freedom.
>
> Guess which western European country wasn't thought to be united with
> the others in fighting for freedom?
>
> http://www.lumbermensunderwriting.com/chap5.pdf

Germany?
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:25:04 GMT, "platypus"
<monotreme.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>AW wrote:
>> TOG@Toil" wrote:
>>> But some bugger's nicked the paper so I don't have the reference.
>>> Telegraph, a couple of days ago, and some old Royal Naval pilot who
>>> attacked the French Fleet in 1940 at Oran. Lined up his Swordfish for
>>> its torpedo run, and the fish hung up and wouldn't drop. Later
>>> involved with fighting the Vichy French. Worth a google.
>>
>>
>> The DT website isn't very helpful....
>>
>> Meanwhile I found this the other day which made me chuckle. The 2nd
>> page of this pdf has a nice wartime illustration of the flags of the
>> united nations that were fighting for freedom.
>>
>> Guess which western European country wasn't thought to be united with
>> the others in fighting for freedom?
>>
>> http://www.lumbermensunderwriting.com/chap5.pdf
>
>Germany?

Spain? Denmark? Switzerland? Ireland? Portugal? Far too many to
choose from, I think
--
Champ

ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R 600 racer
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle
To email me, neal at my domain should work.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

Champ wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:25:04 GMT, "platypus"
> <monotreme RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> AW wrote:
>>> TOG@Toil" wrote:
>>>> But some bugger's nicked the paper so I don't have the reference.
>>>> Telegraph, a couple of days ago, and some old Royal Naval pilot who
>>>> attacked the French Fleet in 1940 at Oran. Lined up his Swordfish
>>>> for its torpedo run, and the fish hung up and wouldn't drop. Later
>>>> involved with fighting the Vichy French. Worth a google.
>>>
>>>
>>> The DT website isn't very helpful....
>>>
>>> Meanwhile I found this the other day which made me chuckle. The 2nd
>>> page of this pdf has a nice wartime illustration of the flags of the
>>> united nations that were fighting for freedom.
>>>
>>> Guess which western European country wasn't thought to be united
>>> with the others in fighting for freedom?
>>>
>>> http://www.lumbermensunderwriting.com/chap5.pdf
>>
>> Germany?
>
> Spain? Denmark? Switzerland? Ireland? Portugal? Far too many to
> choose from, I think

And the United Nations wasn't set up until late 1945.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

AW wrote:
> "platypus" wrote:
>
>> And the United Nations wasn't set up until late 1945.- Hide quoted
>> text -
>
>
> Which would be why I put 'united nations' in lower case, YTC.

Of course, France was also a member of the League of Nations.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

On Feb 14, 1:47 pm, Champ <n....DeleteThis@champ.org.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:43:05 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
>
> <grimly4REM....DeleteThis@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> >[1]I'm heartily sick of this endless jibing about the French - thousands
> >of Frenchies died defending their country and died supporting the Allies
> >with information before during and after the invasion. Millions more
> >bitterly resented the presence of an occupying force and commmitted acts
> >of passive resistance and sabotage every day of the occupation. It's
> >hardly their fault they had incompetent leaders and one or two who
> >seemed to be actively assisting the enemy forces.
>
> <round of applause>
>
> It's very easy to feel superior from the safety of this side of the
> channel, but given the average little-englishman's deference to
> authority, I don't think this nation would have covered itself in
> glory if it had suffered Nazi occupation, and a fair percentage of the
> population would have taken to it like ducks to water.

thank you, Len Deighton.

--
d.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

On 14 Feb, 13:43, Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly4REM....DeleteThis@REMOVEgmail.com>
wrote:
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

>The Vichy Govt of France had made it quite clear on which
> side their bread was buttered at that time, so would hardly have been on
> an Allied poster. [1]

Quite. Mind you, unoccupied France would have been occupied by the
time that poster was drawn up and the French were getting a bit
uppitty by then. The Vichy Government, of course, was as
collaborationist as they came.


> This was, of course, an American publication, so it's to be expected the
> author's grasp of European affairs was a bit sketchy.
>
> [1]I'm heartily sick of this endless jibing about the French - thousands
> of Frenchies died defending their country and died supporting the Allies
> with information before during and after the invasion. Millions more
> bitterly resented the presence of an occupying force and commmitted acts
> of passive resistance and sabotage every day of the occupation. It's
> hardly their fault they had incompetent leaders and one or two who
> seemed to be actively assisting the enemy forces.
>

In fairness, they only started resisting from about 1942 onwards, when
it became obvious that Germany wasn't going to win. Prior to that,
they just rolled over and presented their tummies for scratching.

I've just been reading Vera Atkins and the Lost Agents - tear-jerking
at times. SOE found it practically impossible to get a resistance
movement going prior to 1942 because (a) it didn't have anyone on the
ground and (b) the French really weren't interested until late 1941.
Germany was going to win, so better make the best of it.
 >> Stay informed about: Another wonderful obit 

On 14 Feb, 13:47, Champ <n....RemoveThis@champ.org.uk> wrote:


>
> It's very easy to feel superior from the safety of this side of the
> channel, but given the average little-englishman's deference to
> authority, I don't think this nation would have covered itself in
> glory if it had suffered Nazi occupation, and a fair percentage of the
> population would have taken to it like ducks to water.


I feel certain that all the little tinpot gods we find today in H&S,
Traffic Enforcement, Race Relations, Community Policing and the rest
would indeed have lapped it up. Back then: dunno. I'm glad we never
had the chance to find out.
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On Feb 14, 1:43 pm, Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly4REM....TakeThisOut@REMOVEgmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm heartily sick of this endless jibing about the French

<ding>

Especially since those who make the jibes tend to come from countries
who hardly covered themselves in glory during the run up to and first
couple of years of WWII.

UK - Had an empire that spanned the world, was, apparently, the leader
of the alliance and had been re-arming for four years by 1940, but
couldn't scrape up more than a dozen divisions (some of which didn't
really count for much) to defend their closest ally.

Some people claim the French blame us for running away, I say we
didn't really get there in the first place.


USA - Largest economy on earth and the "Arsenal of democracy" but,
until Poland got stomped on, wouldn't even sell arms to their WWI
Allies, let alone do anything more concrete to help.


Cheers,

John
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On 14 Feb, 13:57, darsy <dar....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 1:47 pm, Champ <n....DeleteThis@champ.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:43:05 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
>
> > <grimly4REM....DeleteThis@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
> > >[1]I'm heartily sick of this endless jibing about the French - thousands
> > >of Frenchies died defending their country and died supporting the Allies
> > >with information before during and after the invasion. Millions more
> > >bitterly resented the presence of an occupying force and commmitted acts
> > >of passive resistance and sabotage every day of the occupation. It's
> > >hardly their fault they had incompetent leaders and one or two who
> > >seemed to be actively assisting the enemy forces.
>
> > <round of applause>
>
> > It's very easy to feel superior from the safety of this side of the
> > channel, but given the average little-englishman's deference to
> > authority, I don't think this nation would have covered itself in
> > glory if it had suffered Nazi occupation, and a fair percentage of the
> > population would have taken to it like ducks to water.
>
> thank you, Len Deighton.
>
Try reading If Britain Had Fallen by Norman Longmate. I think it's out
of print now.

<Amazons>

Oh, no, it isn't. That surprised me.
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On Feb 14, 3:43 pm, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail....TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Feb, 15:31, John Anderton <john1_ander....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Especially since those who make the jibes tend to come from countries
> > who hardly covered themselves in glory during the run up to and first
> > couple of years of WWII.
>
> > UK - Had an empire that spanned the world, was, apparently, the leader
> > of the alliance and had been re-arming for four years by 1940, but
> > couldn't scrape up more than a dozen divisions (some of which didn't
> > really count for much) to defend their closest ally.
>
> Britain has never had a large standing army.

No, but it *did* have a large army (~100 divisions) during WWI and
it's therefore not unreasonable to expect that, when gearing up for
WWI part 2, an army bigger than 12 divisions might be a good idea.

>Also, practically *all*
> of Britain's army materiel (tanks, artillery, etc) went to France in
> 1939-40.

Just because practically all went to France doesn't mean the BEF was
big enough for the task at hand or as big as it should have been given
the situation (WWI part 2).

>Or haven't you wondered why the country was effectively
> defenceless after Dunkirk?

It wasn't, precisely because the limited re-armament spending went
mostly to the RAF and RN, which were quite capable of defending the
country.

<snippage>

> > USA - Largest economy on earth and the "Arsenal of democracy"
>
> That phrase wasn't used until the end of 1940 when Roosevelt made his
> famous speech (well, Fireside Chat, actually). The US had a very
> embryonic arms industry before 1940

Which would have grown dramatically had they been allowed to export
arms.

>(the US Navy excepted).Hardly any
> fighters, hardly any bombers, a small standing army.....

Which was pretty dumb given the rise of nationalism in the 30s
>
>  but,> until Poland got stomped on, wouldn't even sell arms to their WWI
> > Allies, let alone do anything more concrete to help.
>
> Utter bollocks. The US permitted arms sales to France and the UK in
> 1938. Seehttp://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005679

Nope. Nice link but wrong. The 1935/6/7 neutrality acts were amended
in 1939 (Nov 4th) to allow belligerents to buy arms, *not* 1938.

> OK, now you've proved yourself to be as much of a historian as Stevie
> Wonder is a plane-spotter,

Same to you

> what are you going to do for an encore?

Suggest you calm down a bit and resist the knee-jerk reaction,
perhaps ?

Cheers,

John
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