More new 2 stroke technology.

<root.DeleteThis@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:bm1mvg$5fq$1@slack.lne.com...
 > I also don't think they are getting a huge amount of power out of it yet.
 > they say that their 400cc twin gets a motorcycle up to 160kph...
 > assuming a faired road machine like they show on the web site, that's
 > something in the range of 30-40 hp.

Wow! Almost as good as a four stroke....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:37:01 GMT, "Germy McWrath"
<spamisporkshoulderandham.RemoveThis@hogbutt.com> wrote:

 >Wow! Almost as good as a four stroke....

Yes, but already lighter with 1/100,000th of the development time.

There have been quite a few two stroke alternatives posted here in the
last couple years. It'd be cool to see at least one take off.
This one looks like it might be fragile where the exhaust port "arm"
crosses the chamber, and that's also right near the center of the
piston where it'd be most prone to flex. Very possible the cutaway
view is oversimplified and there is some strengthening that isn't
shown.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Tim O <Timo56.RemoveThis@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<of5dov4e7p8i3mul83vttmr3nfvcj0ft1b.RemoveThis@4ax.com>...
 > On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:37:01 GMT, "Germy McWrath"
 > <spamisporkshoulderandham.RemoveThis@hogbutt.com> wrote:
 >
  > >Wow! Almost as good as a four stroke....
 >
 > Yes, but already lighter with 1/100,000th of the development time.
 >
 > There have been quite a few two stroke alternatives posted here in the
 > last couple years. It'd be cool to see at least one take off.
 > This one looks like it might be fragile where the exhaust port "arm"
 > crosses the chamber, and that's also right near the center of the
 > piston where it'd be most prone to flex. Very possible the cutaway
 > view is oversimplified and there is some strengthening that isn't
 > shown.

It seems as though there's a lot of "waste" in that any combustion
pressure on the piston near the pivot won't put a lot of torque into
the piston. I wonder if they've yet optimized the piston angle vs.
crank angle? For example, should the piston's max torque occur when
the crankshaft is at an angle where the piston will create the most
torque on the crank? Or should the 2 be out of phase a bit to help
flatten the torque curve (torque vs. crank angle)?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: More new 2 stroke technology. 

XR650L_Dave wrote:

 > Tim O <Timo56.RemoveThis@REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<of5dov4e7p8i3mul83vttmr3nfvcj0ft1b.RemoveThis@4ax.com>...
 >
  >>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:37:01 GMT, "Germy McWrath"
  >><spamisporkshoulderandham.RemoveThis@hogbutt.com> wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>Wow! Almost as good as a four stroke....
  >>
  >>Yes, but already lighter with 1/100,000th of the development time.
  >>
  >>There have been quite a few two stroke alternatives posted here in the
  >>last couple years. It'd be cool to see at least one take off.
  >>This one looks like it might be fragile where the exhaust port "arm"
  >>crosses the chamber, and that's also right near the center of the
  >>piston where it'd be most prone to flex. Very possible the cutaway
  >>view is oversimplified and there is some strengthening that isn't
  >>shown.
 >
 >
 > It seems as though there's a lot of "waste" in that any combustion
 > pressure on the piston near the pivot won't put a lot of torque into
 > the piston. I wonder if they've yet optimized the piston angle vs.
 > crank angle? For example, should the piston's max torque occur when
 > the crankshaft is at an angle where the piston will create the most
 > torque on the crank? Or should the 2 be out of phase a bit to help
 > flatten the torque curve (torque vs. crank angle)?

The biggest problem I saw with the design is the effective square
combustion chamber. The corners will not be efficient at all.



--
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does
not want merely because you think it would be good for him. -- Robert
Heinlein<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Michael Rothwell <marothwellRemoveThis RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<5PadnWKWH6s8jRqiU-KYhw RemoveThis @comcast.com>...
 > XR650L_Dave wrote:
 >
  > > Tim O <Timo56 RemoveThis @REMOVE.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<of5dov4e7p8i3mul83vttmr3nfvcj0ft1b RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
  > >
   > >>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:37:01 GMT, "Germy McWrath"
   > >><spamisporkshoulderandham RemoveThis @hogbutt.com> wrote:
   >> >
  > > It seems as though there's a lot of "waste" in that any combustion
  > > pressure on the piston near the pivot won't put a lot of torque into
  > > the piston. I wonder if they've yet optimized the piston angle vs.
  > > crank angle? For example, should the piston's max torque occur when
  > > the crankshaft is at an angle where the piston will create the most
  > > torque on the crank? Or should the 2 be out of phase a bit to help
  > > flatten the torque curve (torque vs. crank angle)?
 >
 > The biggest problem I saw with the design is the effective square
 > combustion chamber. The corners will not be efficient at all.

That looks like it could be changed so that the piston was more
fan-shaped, maybe even to a full semi-circle, but then the ring
(slider-seal?) gets more complicated.

I liked the RAH idea that you'd need to serve some kind of service
before becoming a voting citizen.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <5PadnWKWH6s8jRqiU-KYhw RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
Michael Rothwell <marothwellRemoveThis RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

 >The biggest problem I saw with the design is the effective square
 >combustion chamber. The corners will not be efficient at all.

Yea, but they'd made that part of the "piston" be squish, um, band.
The combustion chambers are the central spherical depressions
centered under the plugs. All the real combustion action
will happen there. The amount of mixture in the squish
areas would be miniscule.


Eric<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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