is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.)

"Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname RemoveThis @bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:605jmgF1oru85U1@mid.individual.net...
> the big dog wrote:
>> On Jan 27, 4:19 pm, atec77 <atec77NOS... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/alias__bikepointau/tabID__501554/A...
>>
>> Have these idiots forgotten the reason these things were abandoned
>> across the entire planet in the first place?
>>
>> They're dangerous. To the rider and to pedestrians involved in
>> collisions. Suddenly revenue collection is more important than
>> peoples lives. We must live in a society with deeply confused morals
>> for a proposal such as this to be taken seriously..
>
> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?

They were abandoned in the 1970's in Queensland after a number of riders
being cut by them when crashing and going over the bars.

Boxer
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

"Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname DeleteThis @bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:606svqF1pr46iU1@mid.individual.net...
> G-S wrote:
>> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>>
>>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>> >
>>
>> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
>> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
>> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has a
>> destabilizing effect.
>
> How much more destablising than the surface area presented by a
> full-fairing?
>
>> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when
>> front number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type
>> edge if people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian
>
> Seriously, what are the chances of a rider going over the bars AND hitting
> the front guard?

Many were mounted above the headlight in the 1970's.

What about pedestrian safety?

Boxer

>
> Surely all the talk of 'front number plates are dangerous' is just
> clutching at straws? Probably the same as 'front number plates saves
> lives'.
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Boxer wrote:

<snip>

> What about pedestrian safety?


Who cares?

After all, most of them are just cage drivers who have found a place to
park.

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Boxer wrote:
> "Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname.DeleteThis@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:605jmgF1oru85U1@mid.individual.net...
>> the big dog wrote:
>>> On Jan 27, 4:19 pm, atec77 <atec77NOS....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/alias__bikepointau/tabID__501554/A...
>>> Have these idiots forgotten the reason these things were abandoned
>>> across the entire planet in the first place?
>>>
>>> They're dangerous. To the rider and to pedestrians involved in
>>> collisions. Suddenly revenue collection is more important than
>>> peoples lives. We must live in a society with deeply confused morals
>>> for a proposal such as this to be taken seriously..
>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>
> They were abandoned in the 1970's in Queensland after a number of riders
> being cut by them when crashing and going over the bars.
>
> Boxer
>
>
Lotsa years ago in Unzud a mate of mine had is must fit front plate
mounted as required to his sprung hub trumpy front plate , one night on
leaving the NaeNae pub he forgot about making a turn left at a major
intersection and punched a hole through a house front across the road ,
if the impact had not killed him the number plate firmly imbedded in
his ribs would have .
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

VTR250 wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned I am concerned about safety and as a result I
> try to ride technically as best as I can at all times.

This is a good idea.

Most motorcycle riders are smart enough to realise that the bike rider
is going to hurt in any crash.

There are, of course, the small percentage who wear a couple of grands
worth of "protective gear", think that since they have a back protector,
it will protect their back, even when they ride like total loonies.

> My question
> is, are there any people on this forum who deliberately speed, and do
> so because they know they can't easily be identified from the front
> due to not having a front numberplate? Or, alternatively, does the
> absence of a front numberplate have no effect on your speed?

I refuse to answer this on the grounds that it might incriminate me, but...

I'll admit to knowing a few folk who have their rear plates on hinges,
or with obstructions which can be used to cover their rear plates.
(Don't know their names, yer 'onour! Met then in a cafe.)

There is some logic in the obey the speed limit business and there might
be less crashes, but, if carried to the logical extension, would take us
back to a bloke with a red flag, walking in front of each motor vehicle.

If, and only if, the speed limits were to be set at some more realistic
values, then I could see how a strict enforcement campaign might have a
chance of working, but it would require a serious change in attitude of
all licenced drivers and riders.

All the business of photographs and plate recognition will achieve is to
boost the theft and other mis-appropriation of plates.

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

CrazyCam wrote:
> VTR250 wrote:
>
>> As far as I'm concerned I am concerned about safety and as a result I
>> try to ride technically as best as I can at all times.
>
> This is a good idea.
>
> Most motorcycle riders are smart enough to realise that the bike rider
> is going to hurt in any crash.
>
> There are, of course, the small percentage who wear a couple of grands
> worth of "protective gear", think that since they have a back
> protector, it will protect their back, even when they ride like total
> loonies.

Well, if a fibreglass and styrofoam helmet is designed to protect you from
impacts of not more than 21 km/h, a sheet of plastic sewn into the back of
your jacket should protect you from impacts of at least 3 km/h (your mate
patting you on the back) providing you are going backwards at the moment of
impact.

>> My question
>> is, are there any people on this forum who deliberately speed, and do
>> so because they know they can't easily be identified from the front
>> due to not having a front numberplate? Or, alternatively, does the
>> absence of a front numberplate have no effect on your speed?
>
> I refuse to answer this on the grounds that it might incriminate me,
> but...
> I'll admit to knowing a few folk who have their rear plates on hinges,
> or with obstructions which can be used to cover their rear plates.
> (Don't know their names, yer 'onour! Met then in a cafe.)
>
> There is some logic in the obey the speed limit business and there
> might be less crashes, but, if carried to the logical extension,
> would take us back to a bloke with a red flag, walking in front of
> each motor vehicle.
> If, and only if, the speed limits were to be set at some more
> realistic values, then I could see how a strict enforcement campaign
> might have a chance of working, but it would require a serious change
> in attitude of all licenced drivers and riders.

May I suggest 160 on minor roads and no more than 200 on multi-lane divided
carriageways?

Theo
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Peter Cremasco wrote:
> G-S wrote:
>> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>>
>>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>> >
>>
>> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
>> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
>> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has
>> a destabilizing effect.
>
> How much more destablising than the surface area presented by a
> full-fairing?

Much more because it is mounted to a part of the bike that is causes
counter-steering when angular pressure is applied unlike a full fairing
which is mounted to the frame (and where the wind pressure presses
against the whole mass of the bike). It's the same effect that causes
handle bar mounted screens to create weaves.

>> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when
>> front number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type
>> edge if people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian
>
> Seriously, what are the chances of a rider going over the bars AND
> hitting the front guard?

I personally know of one rider who did exactly that when riding a
classic bike with a longitudinal metal classic plate and mount (which
should have been removed but he wanted to maintain authenticity).

Luckily he was wearing leather pants so he wasn't seriously hurt...
someone like myself who prefers to ride in jeans would have been.

> Surely all the talk of 'front number plates are dangerous' is just
> clutching at straws? Probably the same as 'front number plates saves
> lives'.

It isn't that they will create huge numbers of accidents, it is the fact
that they were removed because they created some.

If they create 'some' again then in my book that's 'some' too many (more
so since the real reason is revenue raising).


G-S
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VTR250 wrote:
> Or, alternatively, does the
> absence of a front numberplate have no effect on your speed?

The presence of a front number plate would have an effect on my average
speed since I'd be forever being pulled up for not having one.


G-S
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"Knobdoodle" <knobdoodle.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ruinj.8137$421.3386@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname.RemoveThis@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>>
> Apart from the obvious crash-related dangers; Blocks vision, blocks
> headlight, interferes with cooling, interferes with aerodynamics......
> How is it NOT dangerous!!
> Sure it'd probably fit on a lot of bikes without any problems but if you
> make it law you've got to guarantee that it's totally safe on EVERY
> road-legal bike from MV Agusta 312 to Daelim 50.
> None (or very very few) of these bikes have been designed to have a
> number-plate so just blindly introducing them without actually checking
> how they'll work for each and every year of each and every model (in all
> conceivable circumstances) is ludicrous.
>
The only way this could be implemented properly would be to make a front
numberplate part of the next ADR and then only allow bikes that can safely
fit one into the country.
At least then you could know that a bike was safe and the plate correctly
mounted.
It'd slash the model line-up of the majors and make small importers like MV
pull out of Australia though.
--
Clem
(and it would drive up used-bike value 'cause it couldn't be made
retrospective!)
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

VTR250 wrote:

> My question is, are there any people on this forum who deliberately speed, and do
> so because they know they can't easily be identified from the front
> due to not having a front numberplate? Or, alternatively, does the
> absence of a front numberplate have no effect on your speed?

Whenever I deliberately speed I wear a very dark visor, cover my rear
number plate in cow poo, and paint 'Moto Guzzi Norge' labels on my tank.
Works a treat, never had a ticket.
--
Cheers

Andrew
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:57:28 GMT, "Knobdoodle"
<knobdoodle.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Clem
>(and it would drive up used-bike value 'cause it couldn't be made
>retrospective!)

Soooooo.... the beemer is finally for sale?

Johno

Beer mate?
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Looking at the pic, a rider in an upright position is likely to smack
their head on the dash or at least some part of their body.
The thin strip of metal I see being there in the example picture looks
to be quite easy to injure yourself on in most forms of 'rider hits
something while upright' collision.

Aside from that, it's fugly.

Peter Cremasco wrote:
> the big dog wrote:
>> On Jan 27, 4:19 pm, atec77 <atec77NOS... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/alias__bikepointau/tabID__501554/A...
>>
>> Have these idiots forgotten the reason these things were abandoned
>> across the entire planet in the first place?
>>
>> They're dangerous. To the rider and to pedestrians involved in
>> collisions. Suddenly revenue collection is more important than
>> peoples lives. We must live in a society with deeply confused morals
>> for a proposal such as this to be taken seriously..
>
> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

G-S wrote:
> Nev.. wrote:
>> G-S wrote:
>>> Nev.. wrote:
>>>> G-S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There has been some talk of using sticker type number plates, but
>>>>> that's pretty much restricted to faired type bikes. There was also
>>>>> some talk of using rubber or plastic number plates but no serious
>>>>> designs seem to have been put forward.
>>>>
>>>> Yes they have.
>>>>
>>>> Nev..
>>>> '07 XB12X
>>>
>>> Designs have been mooted. In the opinion of various groups they
>>> aren't adequate to meet the needs of all motorbikes (although they
>>> are better for some than others).
>>>
>>> They arguably deal with faired motorcycles (stickers... but what
>>> about pressure washers?) and unfaired motorbikes with steel mudguards
>>> (but what about the wind effect of the mudguard mounted plastic
>>> holder?) but they don't consider bikes that have no fairing and
>>> flexible plastic mudguards (like trail bikes with high mounted soft
>>> flexible mudguards).
>>>
>>> I honestly don't think a design that doesn't meet the needs of the
>>> people expected to use it can be taken seriously.
>>
>> Why do you talk in the singular? Why do you think they haven't
>> designed a range of mounts for various bike front end designs?
>>
>
> I was talking in the singular because I was talking about 'my opinion'
> of that designs I'd seen and that's only 1 opinion.
>
> There are several mooted designs yes (but I imlied that when I mentioned
> the different types of bikes above).
>
> Firstly what design do you think deals adequately with a light naked
> bike with a high mounted flexible soft plastic mudguard?

Obviously something handlebar or headlamp mounted. It's not rocket surgery.

Nev..
'07 XB12X
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.)