is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.)

"G-S" <geoff.TakeThisOut@castbus.com.au> wrote in message
news:13pr8bt8d0s77f8@corp.supernews.com...
> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>
>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
> >
>
> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has a
> destabilizing effect.
>
> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when front
> number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type edge if
> people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian (remembering that
> the mount for the number plate needs to be fairly strong as it's out in
> the wind not protected from it like the rear plate). Lengthways OTOH
> minimizes the wind effect.
>
> There has been some talk of using sticker type number plates, but that's
> pretty much restricted to faired type bikes. There was also some talk of
> using rubber or plastic number plates but no serious designs seem to have
> been put forward.
>
>
> G-S


In the late 1960s early 70s, in Victoria, we had some sort of campaign going
about the reasons for not having a front number plate, which was then a
legal requirement. I was booked in Elizabeth Street by a copper who said he
couldn't read my front number plate which was then attached to the front
forks, perpendicular to the forks and visible from the right hand side, but
the copper said he was on the left footpath and couldn't read it, so I went
to court and the magistrate listened to what I said about not having the
number plate attached with bolts and nuts through holes drilled through the
front mudguard, I explained to the magistrate that by drilling holes into
the mudguard, would weaken the structure of the mudguard, which was part and
parcel of the front forks being held together in a straight line and any
holes drilled in them would weaken the structure, therefore render the bike
unsafe.
It was dismissed pending further investigation, but none was forthcoming and
I heard no more about it,
Later on, after other organizations got into it, I think Damien and the MRA
was involved
it was deemed by law that a front number plate was not necessary.

I still think a front number plate is unnecessary and as others have pointed
out, it is only a revenue raiser to gain an extra $200 from every motorcycle
registered
We pay enough now for registration fees and the extra $50 that was wacked on
1st October 2002 brings the registration to almost the same as a car.
Given that my bike is well under the weight of my car and takes up about a
quarter of the road space,
then the bike should be in accordance with the weight distribution as it is
I think with bus and trucks
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Nev.. wrote:
> G-S wrote:
>
>> There has been some talk of using sticker type number plates, but
>> that's pretty much restricted to faired type bikes. There was also
>> some talk of using rubber or plastic number plates but no serious
>> designs seem to have been put forward.
>
> Yes they have.
>
> Nev..
> '07 XB12X

Designs have been mooted. In the opinion of various groups they aren't
adequate to meet the needs of all motorbikes (although they are better
for some than others).

They arguably deal with faired motorcycles (stickers... but what about
pressure washers?) and unfaired motorbikes with steel mudguards (but
what about the wind effect of the mudguard mounted plastic holder?) but
they don't consider bikes that have no fairing and flexible plastic
mudguards (like trail bikes with high mounted soft flexible mudguards).

I honestly don't think a design that doesn't meet the needs of the
people expected to use it can be taken seriously.

YMMV.


G-S
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

> Suddenly revenue collection is more important than peoples lives.

Suddenly?
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

"Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname.DeleteThis@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>
Apart from the obvious crash-related dangers; Blocks vision, blocks
headlight, interferes with cooling, interferes with aerodynamics...... How
is it NOT dangerous!!
Sure it'd probably fit on a lot of bikes without any problems but if you
make it law you've got to guarantee that it's totally safe on EVERY
road-legal bike from MV Agusta 312 to Daelim 50.
None (or very very few) of these bikes have been designed to have a
number-plate so just blindly introducing them without actually checking how
they'll work for each and every year of each and every model (in all
conceivable circumstances) is ludicrous.

Besides; it's a red-herring. They really want transponders.
--
Clem
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

G-S wrote:
> Nev.. wrote:
>> G-S wrote:
>>
>>> There has been some talk of using sticker type number plates, but
>>> that's pretty much restricted to faired type bikes. There was also
>>> some talk of using rubber or plastic number plates but no serious
>>> designs seem to have been put forward.
>>
>> Yes they have.
>>
>> Nev..
>> '07 XB12X
>
> Designs have been mooted. In the opinion of various groups they aren't
> adequate to meet the needs of all motorbikes (although they are better
> for some than others).
>
> They arguably deal with faired motorcycles (stickers... but what about
> pressure washers?) and unfaired motorbikes with steel mudguards (but
> what about the wind effect of the mudguard mounted plastic holder?) but
> they don't consider bikes that have no fairing and flexible plastic
> mudguards (like trail bikes with high mounted soft flexible mudguards).
>
> I honestly don't think a design that doesn't meet the needs of the
> people expected to use it can be taken seriously.

Why do you talk in the singular? Why do you think they haven't designed
a range of mounts for various bike front end designs?

Nev..
'07 XB12X
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:56:48 +1000, Peter Cremasco
<Firstname.Lastname.RemoveThis@bigpond.com> wrote:

>the big dog wrote:
>> On Jan 27, 4:19 pm, atec77 <atec77NOS....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.bikepoint.com.au/portal/alias__bikepointau/tabID__501554/A...
>>
>> Have these idiots forgotten the reason these things were abandoned
>> across the entire planet in the first place?
>>
>> They're dangerous. To the rider and to pedestrians involved in
>> collisions. Suddenly revenue collection is more important than
>> peoples lives. We must live in a society with deeply confused morals
>> for a proposal such as this to be taken seriously..
>
>How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?

Many years ago I had a fibreglass front mudgard break off (number
plate attached), went wizzing past my ear at an indecent speed. I was
lucky not to cop it in the face.

Bill
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

On Jan 28, 7:56 pm, Peter Cremasco <Firstname.Lastn... RemoveThis @bigpond.com>
wrote:
> the big dog wrote:
>
> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?

The safety argument put forward by Vic Roads is that obeying the law
(i.e. sticking to the speed limit) results in less accidents, and less
fatalities. They say, adding front number plates would 'significantly
increase the effectiveness of enforcement and act as a deterrent to
those riders who break the law'.

As far as I'm concerned I am concerned about safety and as a result I
try to ride technically as best as I can at all times. My question
is, are there any people on this forum who deliberately speed, and do
so because they know they can't easily be identified from the front
due to not having a front numberplate? Or, alternatively, does the
absence of a front numberplate have no effect on your speed?
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Nev.. wrote:
> G-S wrote:
>> Nev.. wrote:
>>> G-S wrote:
>>>
>>>> There has been some talk of using sticker type number plates, but
>>>> that's pretty much restricted to faired type bikes. There was also
>>>> some talk of using rubber or plastic number plates but no serious
>>>> designs seem to have been put forward.
>>>
>>> Yes they have.
>>>
>>> Nev..
>>> '07 XB12X
>>
>> Designs have been mooted. In the opinion of various groups they
>> aren't adequate to meet the needs of all motorbikes (although they are
>> better for some than others).
>>
>> They arguably deal with faired motorcycles (stickers... but what about
>> pressure washers?) and unfaired motorbikes with steel mudguards (but
>> what about the wind effect of the mudguard mounted plastic holder?)
>> but they don't consider bikes that have no fairing and flexible
>> plastic mudguards (like trail bikes with high mounted soft flexible
>> mudguards).
>>
>> I honestly don't think a design that doesn't meet the needs of the
>> people expected to use it can be taken seriously.
>
> Why do you talk in the singular? Why do you think they haven't designed
> a range of mounts for various bike front end designs?
>

I was talking in the singular because I was talking about 'my opinion'
of that designs I'd seen and that's only 1 opinion.

There are several mooted designs yes (but I imlied that when I mentioned
the different types of bikes above).

Firstly what design do you think deals adequately with a light naked
bike with a high mounted flexible soft plastic mudguard?


G-S
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

G-S wrote:
> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>
>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
> >
>
> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has a
> destabilizing effect.

How much more destablising than the surface area presented by a
full-fairing?

> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when
> front number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type
> edge if people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian

Seriously, what are the chances of a rider going over the bars AND
hitting the front guard?

Surely all the talk of 'front number plates are dangerous' is just
clutching at straws? Probably the same as 'front number plates saves
lives'.
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

"Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname RemoveThis @bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:606svqF1pr46iU1@mid.individual.net...
> G-S wrote:
>> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>>
>>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>> >
>>
>> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
>> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
>> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has a
>> destabilizing effect.
>
> How much more destablising than the surface area presented by a
> full-fairing?
>
>> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when
>> front number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type
>> edge if people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian
>
> Seriously, what are the chances of a rider going over the bars AND hitting
> the front guard?
>
> Surely all the talk of 'front number plates are dangerous' is just
> clutching at straws? Probably the same as 'front number plates saves
> lives'.

You don't ride a bike, do you ??
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

"George W. Frost" <frosty.DeleteThis@iceworks.org> wrote in message
news:KUrnj.8390$421.7639@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Peter Cremasco" <Firstname.Lastname.DeleteThis@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:606svqF1pr46iU1@mid.individual.net...
>> G-S wrote:
>>> Peter Cremasco wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How is a front numberplate dangerous to the rider?
>>> >
>>>
>>> If you mount a metal number plate so that it sits sideways to the bike
>>> (like the back one) then in most cases it isn't but it present a large
>>> flat surface thats connected to the mudguard and in cross winds it has a
>>> destabilizing effect.
>>
>> How much more destablising than the surface area presented by a
>> full-fairing?
>>
>>> If it's mounted lengthways (like they used to be on older bikes when
>>> front number plates were required) the you are presenting a knife type
>>> edge if people get thrown over the bars or you hit a pedestrian
>>
>> Seriously, what are the chances of a rider going over the bars AND
>> hitting the front guard?
>>
>> Surely all the talk of 'front number plates are dangerous' is just
>> clutching at straws? Probably the same as 'front number plates saves
>> lives'.
>
> You don't ride a bike, do you ??
I was beginning to think exactly that.
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

Biggus wrote:
> I posted this story on a forum IM on, and one bloke who goes by the
> name Road Nazi's (yea bacon in franga), some of his replies to th
> story.

>> Motorcyclists...getting a fine. That is a start. On the spot..a
>> week later...it is all good
>> Revenue raising...road safety...doesn't matter..as long as they
>> start towing the line..it is all good. A few extra demerits may
>> cause them to adjust their riding style. <blah,blah... blah>

Cuurent lag time for delivery of an automated (camera) fine in WA is six
months. Now that's a deterrent.

Theo
What's this line that person was towing?
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.) 

smack wrote:
> Tas police bikes have been running illegal front plates for a few
> years now.
>
> Illegal because the road rules in Tas say you may not run a front
> plate on a bike. They are stuck to the windscreen.

A few years ago they made up a sample of a stick-on plate in WA. Mounted it
on a couple of police bikes and got some nice pictures of them in the Sunday
paper with the minister for transport standing alongside smiling. A shame
the plate said "WA GOVERMNMENT" under the number.

Theo
 >> Stay informed about: is this 4 real ? ( I'm in Qld so phewww 4 now.)