motorcycle vs car safety

"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message

 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 -
70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be
alot
 > greater.

Not necessarily. The public never sees the aftermath of a prang, just the
scene after everyone's out and on their way to hospital. They don't see the
what happens in the time it takes to free someone from a wreck. Ever seen a
head go through a laminated windscreen? Know what happens next?... Cars are
good because you can carry heavy stuff. Like barbells with weights attached,
in the boot. Guess where they end up in a prang?...Car on fire? Door handles
aren't much good if the doors are jammed shut...

Essentially, in a car, you are riding in an easily shredded sheetmetal box
with glass, scalding oil and coolant flowing under the bonnet along with a
big lump of burning hot cast iron or aluminium, not to mention a battery
filled with acid, most likely conveniently placed so as to guarantee damage
in a crash, and a sheetmetal reservoir of flammable liquid under the back.
Frequently, the object that you hit will be another easily shredded
sheetmetal box...

I'm a firie, among other firies in this forum along with nurses and ambos
and coppers who all know the risks and who choose motorcycles.

In 20 years, I've never had to cut anyone out of a motorcycle. Pulled plenty
of bodies, some whole, some not so whole, some unburnt, some not so unburnt,
some alive when we started work, not so alive by the time we'd got them out.

Not saying it doesn't happen to motorcyclists. But at least the bloke who
lost his leg in a bike prang last week didn't have to wait for us to cut him
out...

Your life. Your choice.

Doug Cox.
Work to ride, Ride to work...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

Anyone who comes on here saying a bike is a safe option is simply full of
shit, or just trolling for a stir. Motorcycles and cars are both
fundmentally dangerous. Any activity involving height or momentum is. Once
you accept that fact its all about risk management. You can minimise the
risks on a bike with good gear and good training, but if a rottweiler pops
out and you hit it at 60-70kph it you will be hurt or killed. Its that
simple.

I do agree with one of the points raised earlier. If for whatever reason you
need your parents permission then I suggest you listen to what they have to
say. When you get a wrist full of power it bypasses the big head and goes
straight to the small head (assuming you're male, if not you get the idea).
It doesn't hurt to have a voice of reason throttling you back.

In the end it is up to you. Your life your choice. Best of luck.

--
Cheers
Dave (Mojo67)
FZR600 Brisbane
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.bigpond.net.au/mojo67/mojo67.htm" target="_blank">http://users.bigpond.net.au/mojo67/mojo67.htm</a>
I used to never be able to finish anything but now I
"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40453e9e@news.comindico.com.au...
 > Hi all,
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
 > Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 > that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit
than
 > cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.
 >
 > From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
 > but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
 > motorcycles?
 >
 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 -
70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be
alot
 > greater.
 >
 > Any info on the subject would be good.
 > Thanks
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

If you ...

a) don't ride like a drunk kamikaze pilot on a GP bike (ie. pay attention
and don't do nuthin' stoopid)

b) ride as if you are literally invisible (ie. assume that every last driver
has not seen you) and be *always* ready to honk,brake and swerve

c) have a bike that won't disintergrate beneath you

d) don't get hit by a bus that has burst its tyres and swerved across 6
lanes of freeway to be just where you are at just the same time

....then there's no logical reason why you'd crash or get hurt - it's all up
to you (unless the last option).
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle
 > here in Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas
 > because they believe that motorcycles are very unsafe and
 > have a greater chance of being hit than cars do and you have
 > a greater chance of getting injured.

Well, they're right...

However, is a 1 in 10,000,000 chance of injury really that much safer than a
1 in 100,000 chance?
(assuming that bikes are full hundred times more dangerous than cars)

Also, who'd be buying the bike? You, with your own money, or them, for you,
with their money?
If the former, then, seriously, what are they going to do? Kick you out of
the house? Ground you?

 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at
 > 60 - 70km/hr but with no metal protection like in cars your
 > risk of injury would be alot greater.

I seem to recall something about the foremost experts on passive vehicle
safety, like people who design crumple zones for Mercedes, not social
science PhD's who have a paranoid fear of the steering wheel, agreeing that,
with present technology, anything over about an 80kph impact speed is
unsurvivable.

Cars aren't as safe as "people" think. Conversely, bikes aren't as
dangerous. Especially in a place like Canberra, where they might tailgate
and pull out without looking more than they do elsewhere, but at least there
are only about 20% as many of them as there are elsewhere.

If you think to yourself that it'd be a bit of all right to get a bike, then
just go out and do it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

"Intact Kneeslider" <intact.kneeslider RemoveThis @start.com.au> wrote in
news:c23g4q$1oj3n1$1@ID-190912.news.uni-berlin.de:
 > If the former, then, seriously, what are they going to do? Kick you
 > out of the house? Ground you?

If he buys his own bike, and they ground him, he's
gonna wear out the carpet in his bedroom in no time
flat - not to mention the potential for carbon
monoxide poisoning.

Bob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

"Smiling Bob" <usenet DeleteThis @flyingbob.bsd-fan.com> wrote:
 >
 > "Intact Kneeslider" <intact.kneeslider DeleteThis @start.com.au> wrote:
 >
  > > If the former, then, seriously, what are they going to do? Kick you
  > > out of the house? Ground you?
 >
 > If he buys his own bike, and they ground him, he's
 > gonna wear out the carpet in his bedroom in no time
 > flat - not to mention the potential for carbon
 > monoxide poisoning.

So he cracks a window. Sheesh...

Although, Canberra's gone gaga for polished floorboards of late. He probably
lives in a house like that, which would make for practically endless
burnouts; neither the tyre nor the floor would wear that quickly.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

Sl33py Beast wrote:
 > Hi all,
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
 > Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 > that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit than
 > cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.

How old are you? Do you have a car licence? My own personal
recommendation would be to drive a car for a year or two first to
learn a bit about traffic, road rules and roadcraft.

 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 - 70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be alot
 > greater.

Try this experiment: Run as fast as you possibly can without slacking
your pace directly into a brick wall. Did you get hurt? You would
have been doing about 30kph.

Here's my prangs page (it's missing last year's "2 broken hands" one,
because I've become lazy):

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.geocities.com/za2bb/prangs/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/za2bb/prangs/</a>

As for my history, I bought my first road bike in 1995, when I was 22.
My parents were very unhappy with this development, and tried their
best to encourage me to get a trail or trials bike instead, anything
to keep me off the roads.

6 months or so later I had a rather impressive prang, broke some bones
and my bike, and met my wife-to-be. My parents were once more
dismayed at my "get back on the horse that threw you" attitude.

Time passed, my girlfriend decided that she wanted to try this
motorcycling thing, so I found her a bike and she did. A couple of
months later she decided that motorcycling wasn't for her, and
therefore it wasn't for me either. I persevered for a while, but
eventually made the wrong decision and sold my bikes and gear. After
a couple of years I almost managed to convince myself that I was
"over" motorcyling.

5 years later (in early 2001) my wife and I separated. A few months
after that I bought a Saturday paper and was rather surprised to find
myself heading across town with a trailer behind my car and $500 in my
pocket to buy a bike. Thankfully I didn't get that one (an FT500 with
gearbox trouble) but a month or so later I bought a GPX250.

This time around my parents have been much more supportive. I suspect
that they realised that if I didn't return to motorcycling I probably
would have ended up swinging by a rope from a rafter.


BTH<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

Well, there is some information concerning relative safety of motorcycles vs
other vehicles on the ATSB site:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atsb.gov.au/public/discuss/cross_modal.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.atsb.gov.au/public/discuss/cross_modal.cfm</a>

From there or perhaps from some of the many other publications on the site
(can't remember exactly which one), if you are 17-25 y.o. the risk of death
per km ridden is 36 times higher than if you drive a car. The good news is
that if you are over 40, then the risk is only 20 times higher .

If you look at the numbers in terms of registered vehicles, then things look
different again: in 1999, fatalities per 1000 registered motorbikes was 0.5.
Fatalities per 1000 registered cars was 0.1 (five times less). This seems
much better, but I really think the risk per km ridden/driven is a fairer
comparison.

Cheers,
Nicholas


"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40453e9e@news.comindico.com.au...
 > Hi all,
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
 > Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 > that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit
than
 > cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.
 >
 > From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
 > but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
 > motorcycles?
 >
 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 -
70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be
alot
 > greater.
 >
 > Any info on the subject would be good.
 > Thanks
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

The problem with all the statistics is that the percentage, in terms of kms
driven/ridden in the course of normal usage, compared to the kms
driven/ridden like a dick head is never mentioned.

I wonder what the fatality rate per km would be if you took out all
fatailities and all the km (for car or bike) that fit into the following
categories.

Excessive speed (I mean _really_ excessive, like twice the limit or
something like that, or 120 in an 80 zone in the snow, or things like that.)
Burnouts (including lighting it up out of a round-a-bout).
Wheelies.
Stoppies.
Treating the road like your own personal race track. (I'm not talking about
riding quickly here, but more to do with crossing over to the other side of
the road all the time as though there is no chance of a vehicle coming the
other way.)
Unlicense riders/drivers.
Unregistered vehicles.
People who are drunk.
People not wearing seatbelt/helmet.

I think the figures would seem much better. (Especially for motorcycles,
which have a _lot_ of unlicensed rider fatalities.)

--
James Mayfield
"Insert witty comment here."



"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40453e9e@news.comindico.com.au...
 > Hi all,
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
 > Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 > that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit
than
 > cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.
 >
 > From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
 > but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
 > motorcycles?
 >
 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 -
70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be
alot
 > greater.
 >
 > Any info on the subject would be good.
 > Thanks
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:07:49 +1100
James Mayfield <maysol DeleteThis @tpg.com.au.nospamplease> wrote:
 > The problem with all the statistics is that the percentage, in terms of kms
 > driven/ridden in the course of normal usage, compared to the kms
 > driven/ridden like a dick head is never mentioned.
 >

I've seen speculation that as the motorcycle population is skewed
towards the risk taking types - young men - that the crash rate is very
misleading.

That if you match demographics, the crash rate for bikes would be *less*
than for cars.

I suspect the injury rate from crashes would still be high, but the
chance of getting that injury would be lower than the current stats
which are not matched demographically.

Zebee<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

 > That if you match demographics, the crash rate for bikes would be *less*
 > than for cars.

depends what demographics you're matching. I'd suggest 99% of riders
take an active interest in their mode of transport, whereas pretty much
the inverse would be true of car drivers, so you get far more unknowing,
uncaring, incompetent stupidity. I'm sure you could also argue that a
bike forces you to take more interest, which 'may' be true, but only to
a certain degree.

Charlie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

"Sl33py Beast" <sl33pyb3ast.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40453e9e@news.comindico.com.au...
 > Hi all,
 > I have been talking to my parents about getting a motorcycle here in
 > Canberra instead of driving to my course.
 >
 > They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 > that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit
than
 > cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.
 >
 > From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
 > but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
 > motorcycles?
 >
 > I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 -
70km/hr
 > but with no metal protection like in cars your risk of injury would be
alot
 > greater.
 >
 > Any info on the subject would be good.
 > Thanks
 >
 >

If you have to get your parents permission then you are not ready. Bikes are
not dangerous, its just the idiots who decide they are better riders then
Rossi
who are dangerous as well as car drivers who cant even see ( thus give way )
to other cars let alone bikes. And getting a bike just as Autumn / Winter
rolls
around in Canberra will give you a case of frost bike on your balls ( or if
your
female your <insert whatever body part you like here > ).

Not thats the negatives, the positives are simply riding a bike is great fun
and maintenance/running costs are cheaper then a car. Parking is easier
and mostly the bike community are a friendlier lot<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety 

 >They are very stubborn and completely oppose my ideas because they believe
 >that motorcycles are very unsafe and have a greater chance of being hit than
 >cars do and you have a greater chance of getting injured.

They are correct.

 >From my own common sense i would think their conclusion is pretty accurate
 >but does anyone have any australian statistics about accidents related to
 >motorcycles?
There are lots, but you dont want to show your parents, they will lock
you up.


 >I would think not alot can happen if you are only travelling at 60 - 70km/hr
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://truckster.offroad.au.com/injuries.htm" target="_blank">http://truckster.offroad.au.com/injuries.htm</a> <-- not much?
Coma for month,
hospital 3 mths,
Lost the control of my right foot, and feeling from shin down,
Left arm doesnt straighten
2 fingers sewn back on,
missed the birth of my son,

and more..

Car drivers are fucked.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: motorcycle vs car safety