height help

"Bob Myers" <nospamplease.DeleteThis@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:fumebh$763$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> "David T. Ashley" <dta.DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote in message
> news:CuSdnRzn6bXMBJPVnZ2dnUVZ_vyinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> I actually helped one person (a flight instructor) mess around with my
>> motorcycle. She was very cautious and didn't hit anything.
>>
>> Most people aren't idiots. They are fairly careful.
>
> I would suggest to you, though, that the class of people
> we call "flight instructors" are generally, through training
> and experience, pretty darn cautious about the first-time
> operation of a vehicle. The same cannot be said for "most
> people." But again - hey, it's your bikes. And your
> insurance. Etc., etc., etc..

You hit the nail on the head. I was just messing around. Flight
instructors are going to be on average very different than the typical
person in how they treat an unfamiliar machine.

>> Additionally, if one can drive a manual transmission and ride a bicycle,
>> it isn't that hard.
>
> No, it isn't, really. And yet every year, thousands of newbies
> manage to screw it up to the extent of requiring $eriou$ amount$
> of repair on their bikes, if not on themselves. Go figure.
>
> And for that matter, flying a plane is just a matter of
> pushing in the throttle, keeping the nose reasonably
> straight, and giving a yank backwards at the appropriate
> time. Based on the fact that this also "isn't that hard,"
> would you put a complete newbie into your plane, point
> them to the runway, and say "Go on, take it around the
> patch once or twice. I'll wait here."?

Learning to fly was a miraculous experience, and I'd recommend it to anybody
(pity it is so darned expensive). Same with motorcycling (except it is
thankfully cheaper).

"Yank" isn't quite accurate unless a deer or another airplane suddenly
appears : ). Gently lifting the nose is what one normally does.

One sees from time to time those movies where the pilot keels over dead and
the passenger lands the plane. The odds on that aren't zero, but they
aren't real good, either.

Unless you are on a runway that is way too long, the mechanics of
controlling the plane onto the runway (which are hard) is less than half the
battle. The majority of the battle is setting up so that you arrive at the
runway threshold near the ground and at the targeted airspeed. If you are
too fast and/or too high, you won't stop before the end of the runway. The
mechanics of making an approach are actually easier than landing, but more
important if you plan to survive.

Just diving for the runway isn't a viable approach (you pick up too much
speed).

I remember in flight training some of those humiliating talks with the
flight instructor. It went something like "Dave, did you notice how we
floated down almost to the end of the runway--that is because you approached
at 95 knots rather than 65 knots".

A total newbie generally wouldn't survive the "take it around the patch"
thing.
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

"David T. Ashley" <dta RemoveThis @e3ft.com> wrote in message
news:JL6dnQrNnpQlX5PVnZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@giganews.com...
> Learning to fly was a miraculous experience, and I'd recommend it to
> anybody (pity it is so darned expensive). Same with motorcycling (except
> it is thankfully cheaper).
>
> "Yank" isn't quite accurate unless a deer or another airplane suddenly
> appears : ). Gently lifting the nose is what one normally does.

Yeah, I know - been there, done that, even used to have the
little piece of paper saying I could do it again. Might even
still have it, but God only knows where.

But "yank" reads better. And it DOES happen, as in one case
I fondly remember in which my maniacal flight instructor at the
time (is there any better kind?) thought we should have some
fun...

> A total newbie generally wouldn't survive the "take it around the patch"
> thing.

Kinda my point in the first place. Or rather, in the case
of the bike, there's a more-than-fair-chance that the newbie
will survive, but your bike might not come back in exactly
the same shape you'd started with...

Bob M.
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

dizzy wrote:

>
>Good thing she refused your advice to buy a Hayabusa, eh?

Haha! I actually recommended the Rebel to her. I'd hate to think of what
the same mistake would have looked like on a 'busa.

John

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 >> Stay informed about: height help 

"hags2033" <none.TakeThisOut@000.com> wrote in message
news:7783934_e039095d9b22f43865243abc9c78641f@0000.com...
> im new to bikes and I want to learn to ride so bad. But im 6'3" tall
> and i was wondering if i would fit on a sportbike correctly before i
> go and spend money on something im not gonna be able to do. i would
> appreciate any help you can give thanks.

You'll fit on a Hayabusa, no trouble.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

"David T. Ashley" <dta.TakeThisOut@e3ft.com> wrote in message
news:38OdnVvlvJFTuJPVnZ2dnUVZ_ruqnZ2d@giganews.com...
> "Bob Myers" <nospamplease.TakeThisOut@address.invalid> wrote in message
> news:ful76j$p22$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>>
>> "David T. Ashley" <dta.TakeThisOut@e3ft.com> wrote in message
>> news:5PmdnTQqvNN2k5PVnZ2dnUVZ_qSonZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> If you're close (which would be quite a coincidence), we can go out to a
>>> big stretch of pavement and you can try both bikes out and get some
>>> impression.
>>
>> Ummm...David? Just to make sure I understand here, you
>> wanna go out and put a complete newbie on your bikes?
>>
>> Better yours than mine, I guess. I always figured that this
>> sort of thing was why the motorcycle gods invented the
>> MSF classes, and equipped them with Nighthawk 250s
>> that were specifically intended to get repeatedly dropped
>> onto the asphalt. Note that they at least strip off such
>> likely casualties as the mirrors and turn signals before
>> doing THAT, even.
>>
>> Or maybe you just want to practice your paint and
>> metalwork skills?
>
> I actually don't think a first-timer will typically drop a bike just
> tooling it around for the first time and stopping in a straight line.

More bikes fall over at traffic lights than you can shale a stick at, and 9
times out of 10, it's a nebie on the seat.

> I think the drops will come in skill stressful situations (such as the
> exercises in the MSF course, which are things a person wouldn't try
> naturally outside a course).
>
> Now, if a first timer tried to do the MSF course with either of my two
> bikes, would they probably drop them? Absolutely! The reason is that
> they both weigh nearly 500 lbs and doing low speed manuevering and stuff
> the foot might not come down fast enough. Which is why the MSF course
> uses 250's.
>
> I'd be surprised to see a person drop either one tooling around on a large
> concrete surface ...

I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T.

>
> But maybe I'm wrong there ...
>
> The Shadow has been spilled at least 3 times by me ... I even have a few
> spare parts in a box at home. With that one, spills are cheap. I think
> the Shadow is an excellent first bike in that respect. It survived me
> learning to ride.

And how did YOUR spills come about?


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

"Doug Payne" <dwpayne.DeleteThis@ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:fulete$v8a$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
> David T. Ashley wrote:
>
>> I actually don't think a first-timer will typically drop a bike just
>> tooling it around for the first time and stopping in a straight line. I
>> think the drops will come in skill stressful situations (such as the
>> exercises in the MSF course, which are things a person wouldn't try
>> naturally outside a course).
>
> They usually happen in your driveway or garage.

But they look far more impressive when they happen to a new bike coming off
the dealers forecourt though. Specially when it's a shiny new R1.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

Beav wrote:
> "Doug Payne" <dwpayne RemoveThis @ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
> news:fulete$v8a$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
>> David T. Ashley wrote:
>>
>>> I actually don't think a first-timer will typically drop a bike just
>>> tooling it around for the first time and stopping in a straight line. I
>>> think the drops will come in skill stressful situations (such as the
>>> exercises in the MSF course, which are things a person wouldn't try
>>> naturally outside a course).
>> They usually happen in your driveway or garage.
>
> But they look far more impressive when they happen to a new bike coming off
> the dealers forecourt though. Specially when it's a shiny new R1.

From personal experience?

SWMBO thought it mighty impressive the night I came home from a too-long
14-hour ride in the cold and wet, pulled in the garage, stepped off, and
cunningly pinned myself up against the wall, having forgotten to put
down the side stand. She said later it was the best cushioning save of
hardware she'd ever seen. She of course ignored the giant bruise on my
leg. Wouldn't even rub it better.
 >> Stay informed about: height help 

"Doug Payne" <dwpayne RemoveThis @ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
news:fuom79$tb2$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
> Beav wrote:
>> "Doug Payne" <dwpayne RemoveThis @ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote in message
>> news:fulete$v8a$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca...
>>> David T. Ashley wrote:
>>>
>>>> I actually don't think a first-timer will typically drop a bike just
>>>> tooling it around for the first time and stopping in a straight line.
>>>> I think the drops will come in skill stressful situations (such as the
>>>> exercises in the MSF course, which are things a person wouldn't try
>>>> naturally outside a course).
>>> They usually happen in your driveway or garage.
>>
>> But they look far more impressive when they happen to a new bike coming
>> off the dealers forecourt though. Specially when it's a shiny new R1.
>
> From personal experience?

Fortuntaely not, but there's a clip somewhere "out there" in interwebby
world. On YouTube IIRC, but I don't have a link.

>
> SWMBO thought it mighty impressive the night I came home from a too-long
> 14-hour ride in the cold and wet, pulled in the garage, stepped off, and
> cunningly pinned myself up against the wall, having forgotten to put down
> the side stand. She said later it was the best cushioning save of hardware
> she'd ever seen. She of course ignored the giant bruise on my leg.
> Wouldn't even rub it better.

Miserable buggers these wimminfolk.

--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
 >> Stay informed about: height help