That's gotta' be a first!

On 2008-02-24 20:02:19 -0500, Russell Watson <russell-watson DeleteThis @comcast.net> said:

> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:53:06 -0500, T3 <notme DeleteThis @nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>> http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31500
>>
>>
>> "The Buell 1125R will de-tuned with intake restrictors to meet the
>> 120-horspower limit for SST."
>>
>> Say what?
>> I've been around a looong time and I'll be damned if I can remember a
>> Harley ever having *that* particular issue...
>>
>>
> Yeah, but is it really a "Harley" or is the new one with the Rotax
> motor?

A real Harley? WTF is that? You mean a Mexley, or a Tiavidson?

Russ, I'm not about to dis Buell, as I'm convinced his heart's in the
right place and he yearns to race, but it might say something, not only
about Harley but the US too, that he had to look abroad to find
engineers to build a competitive (hopeully) engine...
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:41:58 -0500, T3 <notme.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 2008-02-24 20:02:19 -0500, Russell Watson <russell-watson.RemoveThis@comcast.net> said:
>
>> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:53:06 -0500, T3 <notme.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>> http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31500
>>>
>>>
>>> "The Buell 1125R will de-tuned with intake restrictors to meet the
>>> 120-horspower limit for SST."
>>>
>>> Say what?
>>> I've been around a looong time and I'll be damned if I can remember a
>>> Harley ever having *that* particular issue...
>>>
>>>
>> Yeah, but is it really a "Harley" or is the new one with the Rotax
>> motor?
>
>A real Harley? WTF is that? You mean a Mexley, or a Tiavidson?
>
>Russ, I'm not about to dis Buell, as I'm convinced his heart's in the
>right place and he yearns to race, but it might say something, not only
>about Harley but the US too, that he had to look abroad to find
>engineers to build a competitive (hopeully) engine...

I'm with you, dude. I had such high hopes for the VR-1000 bike that
H-D campaigned in superbike in the mid/late -'90s but it was pretty
much an also-ran, due largely to the fact that they seemed to think
they could make a race bike and run it for years like they do their
street bikes while the Japanese were making a new model every other
year. If not for flat track and the XR-750 Harley wouldn't have squat
in racing, and that's a 40+ y/o bike!

BTW, hope everyone here fared well over the off season. I saw that WSB
in Qatar was on today and thought I should catch up. Thanks to Comcast
(actually Giganews) post retention all 1150 or so posts that have been
made here since I last looked in the fall were out there to read.
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

> BTW, hope everyone here fared well over the off season. I saw that WSB
> in Qatar was on today and thought I should catch up. Thanks to Comcast
> (actually Giganews) post retention all 1150 or so posts that have been
> made here since I last looked in the fall were out there to read.

WSBK is what it is and if we had a dog in the fight it might be easier
for me to resolve the issue's I have with that series, (maybe) but
alas, we don't...
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

T3 <notme.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:49:19
>WSBK is what it is and if we had a dog in the fight it might be easier
>for me to resolve the issue's I have with that series, (maybe) but
>alas, we don't...

So M/C racing isn't worth watching unless there's an American on the
grid. Well I'm glad we got that one sorted out.

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 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On 2008-02-25 15:12:55 -0500, Julian Bond <julian_bond.DeleteThis@voidstar.com> said:

> T3 <notme.DeleteThis@nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:49:19
>> WSBK is what it is and if we had a dog in the fight it might be easier
>> for me to resolve the issue's I have with that series, (maybe) but
>> alas, we don't...
>
> So M/C racing isn't worth watching unless there's an American on the
> grid. Well I'm glad we got that one sorted out.

International events, or "World Championships" always come with a
nationalistic, or ethnic side, it's what gets fans fanatic and
promoter's wet, as damn near everyone likes to pull for a homie. The
somewhat sad fact that series doesn't have one single septic in it
doesn't do much to make it more appealing to USAins and why should it?
That said, those races really got the blood pumpin' for all out, haul
ass racing at the big track!

Today's hot rumor, The AMA "put off" naming a sucessor for 2 weeks, 1
week ago and now some "insider's" say it was to make a big splash at
France's Fast Fun House and given that Speedweek just happens to
coincide with their announcement date, well, you do the math, or to put
it another way, Ray Charles could've seen this coming. Then again, it's
just a rumor, though I think a pretty good one...
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

T3 <notme.DeleteThis@nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:30:11
>International events, or "World Championships" always come with a
>nationalistic, or ethnic side, it's what gets fans fanatic and
>promoter's wet, as damn near everyone likes to pull for a homie. The
>somewhat sad fact that series doesn't have one single septic in it
>doesn't do much to make it more appealing to USAins and why should it?

No Brits there either. So we tend to adopt someone. Bayliss because he
won BSB years ago. Xaus because he's mad. Sofuoglu because he's going
where no Turk has gone before. Haga because he once said "It's Broddy
Laneing" to Suzie Perry. There's even people who root for Biaggi because
he once rode an Aprilia in Black and Silver.

> That said, those races really got the blood pumpin' for all out, haul
>ass racing at the big track!

Yup. Was good wasn't it. Xaus put some proper hard moves on Biaggi.
There's was one beautiful shot where they're taking a left hand bend
side by side under power with both of them chirping the front and back
tyres alternately. Real balls out stuff.

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 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

Julian Bond wrote:
> T3 <notme.TakeThisOut@nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:30:11
>> International events, or "World Championships" always come with a
>> nationalistic, or ethnic side, it's what gets fans fanatic and
>> promoter's wet, as damn near everyone likes to pull for a homie. The
>> somewhat sad fact that series doesn't have one single septic in it
>> doesn't do much to make it more appealing to USAins and why should it?
>
> No Brits there either. So we tend to adopt someone. Bayliss because he
> won BSB years ago. Xaus because he's mad. Sofuoglu because he's going
> where no Turk has gone before. Haga because he once said "It's Broddy
> Laneing" to Suzie Perry. There's even people who root for Biaggi because
> he once rode an Aprilia in Black and Silver.

then how about Levilla & Kyonari? more BSB champs

>
>> That said, those races really got the blood pumpin' for all out, haul
>> ass racing at the big track!
>
> Yup. Was good wasn't it. Xaus put some proper hard moves on Biaggi.
> There's was one beautiful shot where they're taking a left hand bend
> side by side under power with both of them chirping the front and back
> tyres alternately. Real balls out stuff.
>

quite a few good moves by a variety of riders. made for interesting races
(and I don't need an American to watch/enjoy - but i miss JT)

btw how about the bonehead mistake by haga? you'd think with his experience
that he would know that the middle of a turn at speed, when already dealing
with issues, is not the time to let go of the grips, especially to gesture
to someone who can;t see you anyway.

Bruce
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On 2008-02-25 17:15:15 -0500, Julian Bond <julian_bond DeleteThis @voidstar.com> said:

> T3 <notme DeleteThis @nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:30:11
>> International events, or "World Championships" always come with a
>> nationalistic, or ethnic side, it's what gets fans fanatic and
>> promoter's wet, as damn near everyone likes to pull for a homie. The
>> somewhat sad fact that series doesn't have one single septic in it
>> doesn't do much to make it more appealing to USAins and why should it?
>
> No Brits there either. So we tend to adopt someone. Bayliss because he
> won BSB years ago. Xaus because he's mad. Sofuoglu because he's going
> where no Turk has gone before. Haga because he once said "It's Broddy
> Laneing" to Suzie Perry. There's even people who root for Biaggi
> because he once rode an Aprilia in Black and Silver.

Who's that guy Smrz and did he win any money last weekend? If so, I'm
thinkin' he might consider buying a vowel..

>
>> That said, those races really got the blood pumpin' for all out, haul
>> ass racing at the big track!
>
> Yup. Was good wasn't it. Xaus put some proper hard moves on Biaggi.
> There's was one beautiful shot where they're taking a left hand bend
> side by side under power with both of them chirping the front and back
> tyres alternately. Real balls out stuff.

Ayup, good stuff...
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:03:56 -0500, T3 <notme.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 2008-02-25 17:15:15 -0500, Julian Bond <julian_bond.RemoveThis@voidstar.com> said:
>
>> T3 <notme.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:30:11
>>> International events, or "World Championships" always come with a
>>> nationalistic, or ethnic side, it's what gets fans fanatic and
>>> promoter's wet, as damn near everyone likes to pull for a homie. The
>>> somewhat sad fact that series doesn't have one single septic in it
>>> doesn't do much to make it more appealing to USAins and why should it?
>>
>> No Brits there either. So we tend to adopt someone. Bayliss because he
>> won BSB years ago. Xaus because he's mad. Sofuoglu because he's going
>> where no Turk has gone before. Haga because he once said "It's Broddy
>> Laneing" to Suzie Perry. There's even people who root for Biaggi
>> because he once rode an Aprilia in Black and Silver.
>
>Who's that guy Smrz and did he win any money last weekend? If so, I'm
>thinkin' he might consider buying a vowel..

And is Brno his "home track"? Inquiring minds want to know!

>
>>
>>> That said, those races really got the blood pumpin' for all out, haul
>>> ass racing at the big track!
>>
>> Yup. Was good wasn't it. Xaus put some proper hard moves on Biaggi.
>> There's was one beautiful shot where they're taking a left hand bend
>> side by side under power with both of them chirping the front and back
>> tyres alternately. Real balls out stuff.
>
>Ayup, good stuff...
>

I'm with T3 on the "we don't have a dog in the fight" frame of mind. I
really enjoy the racing, especially when it's like Qatar was this
weekend, and usually tape them when they show them midday Tuesdays on
Speed, but I find I don't get into like I do when there are 'Mericans
in there. After reading the MC writers cleaning the jism out of their
jeans over the new Duc 1098 this time last year I was looking forward
to seeing it race to see if it rated the hyperbole and damned if it
ain't pretty impressive for a first year bike. That the privateer and
factory guy rode neck and neck was pretty damn cool too. We can't even
get team-mates in AMA or MotoGP with the same equipment, let alone a
privateer run with factory guys. Well, I guess in AMA Yates is the
exception, but he's got Air Jordan's deep-ass pockets, too. Mike
probably has as much money as Suzuki.<G>
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

Russell Watson <russell-watson RemoveThis @comcast.net> Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:15:42
>That the privateer and
>factory guy rode neck and neck was pretty damn cool too.

Puts me in mind of 2002 with Edwards, Bayliss+Xaus and Hodgson+Toseland.
Except that year Hodgson+Toseland were on Dunlops and couldn't quite
match the Michelins. But the GSE bikes were pretty close to the factory
bikes. Close enough for Hodgson to be consistently third just behind
Edwards and Bayliss.

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 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:20:02 GMT, Bruce Hartweg <doNOTuse DeleteThis @nowhere.com>
allegedly wrote:

>> going where no Turk has gone before. Haga because he once said "It's
>> Broddy Laneing" to Suzie Perry.

For me, it's Haga, because he put that old YZF750 places where no-one else
could go. And I got a high-5 off him at Donington some 6 years back.

> btw how about the bonehead mistake by haga? you'd think with his
> experience that he would know that the middle of a turn at speed, when

According to a friend who has the 2007 review DVD, he did the same thing
at Brno, and got a slide but didn't crash. Should have been a wake up
call.
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:15:42 -0500, Russell Watson
<russell-watson.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>I'm with T3 on the "we don't have a dog in the fight" frame of mind.

You know, I really don't mind that there aren't any Americans in the
series at the moment. The racing is good now that there's more than
one brand at the front, and therefore more than one or two riders.

But, what bothers me right now is the disconnect between the SBK
series'. There's no apparent path from AMA SBK to WSBK. Nobody in
the AMA seems to want anything to do with WSBK these days. We never
hear any AMA riders speak of wanting a "promotion" to WSBK, only to
MotoGP. There hasn't been any interest in moving to WSBK since,
probably, BBoz did it in 2000 and EBoz took a few rides a couple years
later. Right now, the AMA riders just don't see WSBK as a step up.
The tracks may be better or safer but the series just doesn't have the
esteem of a World Championship it once had thanks to the recent years
of single-team-dominance (Factory Duc) and then the spec tire
boondoggle of picking the third rate Pirellis.

Ten years ago someone like Ben Spies would have been shipped off to
WSBK after riding the way he has over the past five years.
Personally, I'd rather see Ben go off to WSBK than MotoGP. Especially
if he's going to have to settle for a second rate MotoGP ride like a
Suzuki or Kawasaki. I'd really like to see him ripping on an Alstare
Suzuki. Actually, I'd like to see Ben on another brand at some point
just to prove he's not a one-trick-pony.
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first! 

Dave wrote:
> Russell Watson wrote:
>
>> I'm with T3 on the "we don't have a dog in the fight" frame of mind.
>
> You know, I really don't mind that there aren't any Americans in the
> series at the moment. The racing is good now that there's more than
> one brand at the front, and therefore more than one or two riders.

Yeah, but beyond the notion of not having a homey to root for (or
against, as the case may be), there's also the historical aspect of it.
That being that there have been more WSB champions and more GP premier
class champions in the last 30 years from the US than anywhere else. So
when a series is run in a manner that essentially excludes them, it's a
knock on how good that series really is. Same deal as GP in the 95-02
period.

> But, what bothers me right now is the disconnect between the SBK
> series'. There's no apparent path from AMA SBK to WSBK. Nobody in
> the AMA seems to want anything to do with WSBK these days. We never
> hear any AMA riders speak of wanting a "promotion" to WSBK, only to
> MotoGP. There hasn't been any interest in moving to WSBK since,
> probably, BBoz did it in 2000 and EBoz took a few rides a couple years
> later. Right now, the AMA riders just don't see WSBK as a step up.
> The tracks may be better or safer but the series just doesn't have the
> esteem of a World Championship it once had thanks to the recent years
> of single-team-dominance (Factory Duc) and then the spec tire
> boondoggle of picking the third rate Pirellis.

Absolutely right, and add in that the money has been so much better in
the AMA than in WSB over the last five years and that there really
aren't factories doing the hiring in WSB these days and there's just
about no chance that a good, unknown American will move to WSB. WSB's
loss, and one would hope that the return of the series to this country
might start to reverse that.

> Ten years ago someone like Ben Spies would have been shipped off to
> WSBK after riding the way he has over the past five years.

Would he? Look at Mladin, or Duhamel, or Chandler. The American guys who
have moved to WSB have been:
- Merkel, who's options were essentially gone in the US and was willing
to strike out on his own.
- Polen, who had shown his stuff in Japan as well as in the AMA and was
brought to WSB by Ferracci.
- Russell, who was brought to WSB by Muzzy when he started /took over
the Kawi factory team.
- Edwards, who was brought in by Yamaha in Japan when they started their
full factory team.
- Hale, hired by Promotor, after he'd made a big splash in his first SB
season here, including a WSB wildcard podium, and had that handsome
dirttracker cowboy image/background.
- Kocinski, hired by the Ducati factory team, having already fully
established himself in GP.
- Bostrom, also hired by the Ducati factory team, and also was the
handsome ex-dirttracker who'd won the AMA championship in his first year
in SB and won his first SB race as a WSB wildcard.

That's about it, right? And it may be the case that we never saw Mladin,
Duhamel or Chandler in WSB because no one was willing or able to pay the
freight. Seems like it takes a combination of fairly specific conditions
for an American to take/make the cut in an essentially European series,
and those conditions really don't exist right now.

> Personally, I'd rather see Ben go off to WSBK than MotoGP. Especially
> if he's going to have to settle for a second rate MotoGP ride like a
> Suzuki or Kawasaki. I'd really like to see him ripping on an Alstare
> Suzuki. Actually, I'd like to see Ben on another brand at some point
> just to prove he's not a one-trick-pony.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in WSB, and on a Suzuki, which would help
show if it's the bike or the rider over here. But that just delays him
getting to where it really counts, at least for the time being. And is
anyone going to pay his seven-figure asking price?

And I wouldn't dismiss Suzuki or Kawasaki in GP just yet, especially
when they're on Bridgestones and Honda and Yamaha aren't (mostly). Take
that perfect alignment of the stars that exists between the Bridgestone,
Ducati and Stoner away and what do we have? Not totally clear who's got
it and who doesn't right now.
 >> Stay informed about: That's gotta' be a first!