Will any glue stick bike plastics?

T i m wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I tidying up my little CB250 ShiteHawk (the Daughter may well move
> onto it after her test) and there is some crack damage to the lhs
> panel and the little one that joins the two side panels over the
> taillight that I like to sort pre re-painting (a mate will do that for
> me for nowt).
>
> Ages ago I drilled the crack on the side panel and cable tied it
> together at the open end of the crack (it nearly went across the whole
> panel) and it hasn't got any worse over the last couple of years.
>
> I have now taken plastics off, cleaned them thoroughly and super glued
> the cracks together, just to keep them aligned for the next step.
>
> So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
> repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
> some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
> countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
> with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
> panel)?
>
> Is there a better (cost effective) d-i-y way please?
>
> All the best ..
>
> T i m

You'll never get ti to bond if you just stick the broken bits together, they
flex too much. Get a bit more plastic to epoxy to the back making the join
strong, then it the crack can still be seen, cut a V shaped groove in it &
fill with suitable flexible filler.

--


Nige, talking utter shite since 1967.

Focus ST3
Range Rover 4.6 HSE
Daytona SE

NIGE#1
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m <news.DeleteThis@spaced.me.uk> saying
something like:

>Ages ago I drilled the crack on the side panel and cable tied it
>together at the open end of the crack (it nearly went across the whole
>panel) and it hasn't got any worse over the last couple of years.
>
>I have now taken plastics off, cleaned them thoroughly and super glued
>the cracks together, just to keep them aligned for the next step.
>
>So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
>repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
>some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
>countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
>with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
>panel)?

Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and filler
rod. I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's stinky and
messy. Pre plastic welding, another method I used successfully on panels
was a couple of layers of fibreglass on the rear/inside.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"A scone and tea at half past three
Makes the day a little brighter
Keep your cakes and fancy tarts
And stick them up your shiter."
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On 17/2/08 14:39, in article pkhgr31u9shhdv1k9jtgt4on53l8rbv8hu DeleteThis @4ax.com,
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly4REMOVE DeleteThis @REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

> Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and filler
> rod. I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's stinky and
> messy. Pre plastic welding, another method I used successfully on panels
> was a couple of layers of fibreglass on the rear/inside.
Will a decorating hot air gun do the job? Sealey sell a kit for £100 ish but
this seems a lot for what looks like an ordinary hot air gun and some rods.

Steve
--
1936 BSA B18
1987 VFR400 NC24
1998 HD FXDS
2007 HD VRSCDX
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:18:39 GMT, wessie <putmynamehere.RemoveThis@tesco.net>
wrote:

>T i m <news.RemoveThis@spaced.me.uk> wrote in news:pncgr39jb90hoj2kaat5uosbdgl0r036p4@
>4ax.com:
>
>> So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
>> repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
>> some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
>> countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
>> with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
>> panel)?
>>
>> Is there a better (cost effective) d-i-y way please?
>>
>
>I used some fibreglass webbing and a 2 pack resin to fix it in place for a
>panel on a VFR. You can buy it in a kit but you can probably get the items
>individually from hobby shops or motor factors.

Thanks for that. I'm fairy handy with fiberglass and probably have
enough stuff here to do something anyway, what I really wasn't sure
about is the bond and reaction parts. A cracked side panel being less
obvious than a dissolved / melted one etc
>
>Lozzo's the man for this sort of stuff.

Ok, I'll look forward to his input ..

All the best ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

Steve wrote:

> > Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and
> > filler rod. I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's
> > stinky and messy. Pre plastic welding, another method I used
> > successfully on panels was a couple of layers of fibreglass on the
> > rear/inside.
> Will a decorating hot air gun do the job? Sealey sell a kit for £100
> ish but this seems a lot for what looks like an ordinary hot air gun
> and some rods.

You will need a nozzle to concentrate the air flow, to make a smaller,
hotter area. You could easily make one, or adapt the wide one.

--
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

In communiqué <pncgr39jb90hoj2kaat5uosbdgl0r036p4 RemoveThis @4ax.com>, T i m
<news RemoveThis @spaced.me.uk> cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
>repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
>some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
>countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
>with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
>panel)?
>
>Is there a better (cost effective) d-i-y way please?

For a quick but reasonably strong bodge, I use Isopon plastic bumper
fill reinforced with plates of plastic on the inside across the crack. I
retained the lad's cast off KX65 front mudguard for supplying such
patches. Not cheap at 8 quid for 100ml, but once hard seems very strong
and any fill showing on the outside sands down to a nice finish.

The repair I did recently to the tank 'fairing' on the Nordie stood up
to Champ's treatment at Prescott OK.


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: Peter RemoveThis @ps-fisher.demon.co.uk |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:39:13 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
<grimly4REMOVE.RemoveThis@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:

>
>Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and filler
>rod.

I did a bit of Googling on that before I asked here and it looked like
the 'basic kit' for plastic welding (inc some sample plastics) was
gonna cost me 100 notes (for what looked like an everyday hot air
gun?) and £300+ for something that looked like it would focus the heat
more specifically (and with a rod feed tube etc). I'm not saying that
the fist set wouldn't work, but as a fairly long term solderer and
metal welder I imagined the plastic getting too hot generally and all
folding up (like welding thin ally)?

I even asked about to see if I could put a decent kit to some extra
use, to help it pay for itself at least but it was suggested I would
probably have to do the painting as well and I'm not up for that, not
right now anyway?

>I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's stinky and
>messy.

I had also considered that, at least just peening / stitching (?) the
joint together from the back so it's got some continuation to the
plastic at least. So is the basic idea to build up a plastic weld
'bead' over the crack to carry the load round the crack? Or to 'weld'
some extra material over the crack (sorta the same thing but using
'bits' of the same sort of plastic rather than filler rod as such)?

>Pre plastic welding, another method I used successfully on panels
>was a couple of layers of fibreglass on the rear/inside.

Well, I guess I could do that as well Dave? So, I clean the inner
surface back to the native plastic (it looks a sort of yellow?) and
just layup some glass mat (I've got some woven cloth / carbon cloth
and tissue as well) over the broken area (a few inches either side
etc).

All the best ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:34:16 +0000, Steve <steveloukes RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
..
>Will a decorating hot air gun do the job? Sealey sell a kit for £100 ish but
>this seems a lot for what looks like an ordinary hot air gun and some rods.

That's what I saw and was thinking Steve but there must be more to it
than that.

The more pro systems seem to have a fairly fine air nozzle with a
temperature controlled hot air gun. Better systems seem to look more
like a fat soldering iron that uses air, either from an external
compressor or one built into the 'air iron'.

I can see how a *very* fine stream of suitably hot air could be used
on plastic, just as an oxy / acetylene welder might on some sheet
steel but even with steel you get stuff distorting ..?

All the best ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On 17 Feb 2008 16:53:45 GMT, "joe" <joeparkinchinese DeleteThis @btinternet.com>
wrote:

>Steve wrote:
>
>> > Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and
>> > filler rod. I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's
>> > stinky and messy. Pre plastic welding, another method I used
>> > successfully on panels was a couple of layers of fibreglass on the
>> > rear/inside.
>> Will a decorating hot air gun do the job? Sealey sell a kit for £100
>> ish but this seems a lot for what looks like an ordinary hot air gun
>> and some rods.
>
>You will need a nozzle to concentrate the air flow, to make a smaller,
>hotter area. You could easily make one, or adapt the wide one.

And is that it Joe (assuming some matching material to act as filler
rod etc)? Is temperature control essential (especially for a novice)?

Is it then just a matter of building up some material behind the
crack?

All the best ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:01:01 +0000, Pete Fisher
<Peter.RemoveThis@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In communiqué <pncgr39jb90hoj2kaat5uosbdgl0r036p4.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, T i m
><news.RemoveThis@spaced.me.uk> cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>>So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
>>repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
>>some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
>>countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
>>with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
>>panel)?
>>
>>Is there a better (cost effective) d-i-y way please?
>
>For a quick but reasonably strong bodge, I use Isopon plastic bumper
>fill reinforced with plates of plastic on the inside across the crack.

Ah, thanks and I guess it's specifically designed for such
traditionally 'non-stick' plastics?

> I
>retained the lad's cast off KX65 front mudguard for supplying such
>patches.

Well I have a spare rear panel I could cut up and use in a similar
way.

>Not cheap at 8 quid for 100ml, but once hard seems very strong
>and any fill showing on the outside sands down to a nice finish.

Ok and I like the idea of being able to d-i-y it quickly and easily
etc. I wonder if it would be as strong or stronger and stick better
than the fiberglass solution?
>
>The repair I did recently to the tank 'fairing' on the Nordie stood up
>to Champ's treatment at Prescott OK.

That sounds like it took some knocks (not knowing Champ or Prescott
sri).

Thanks and all the best Pete ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

In communiqué <mrqgr3hpc24v2u5m1nq9pq1ioqplfgmb88.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, T i m
<news.DeleteThis@spaced.me.uk> cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:01:01 +0000, Pete Fisher
><Peter.DeleteThis@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In communiqué <pncgr39jb90hoj2kaat5uosbdgl0r036p4.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, T i m
>><news.DeleteThis@spaced.me.uk> cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>>>So, working on the theory that outside of a proper 'plastic welded
>>>repair' (assuming that might be expensive?) I was thinking of screwing
>>>some small ally plates across the back of the cracks using small
>>>countersunk screws from the outside (than could be filled over) maybe
>>>with the plates bedded in some Epoxy or summat (after keying up the
>>>panel)?
>>>
>>>Is there a better (cost effective) d-i-y way please?
>>
>>For a quick but reasonably strong bodge, I use Isopon plastic bumper
>>fill reinforced with plates of plastic on the inside across the crack.
>
>Ah, thanks and I guess it's specifically designed for such
>traditionally 'non-stick' plastics?
>

I know someone who used to remodel body panels for custom bikes using it
(or a similar goo called bumper repair IIRC).

>> I
>>retained the lad's cast off KX65 front mudguard for supplying such
>>patches.
>
>Well I have a spare rear panel I could cut up and use in a similar
>way.
>

The main thing is to bridge the gap. The patch doesn't need to be very
thick. In fact if you have room to smother the patch with the filler as
well as stick it on that is good. Needless to say you need to roughen up
the surface of the inside of the panel and the patch well and make sure
they are really clean (I gouge them with a sharp screw driver and clean
using brake cleaner spray). I've also used it successfully to repair
broken mounting points on seats (with the aid of a plastic bobbin for
extra strength). In fact I need to do just that on GFR#2, and the job I
did on GFR#1 has lasted since 1998.


>>
>>The repair I did recently to the tank 'fairing' on the Nordie stood up
>>to Champ's treatment at Prescott OK.
>
>That sounds like it took some knocks (not knowing Champ or Prescott
>sri).
>

Well I dare say he was giving the panels a fair squeeze under braking.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: Peter.DeleteThis@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:23:43 +0000, Pete Fisher
<Peter.RemoveThis@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>I know someone who used to remodel body panels for custom bikes using it
>(or a similar goo called bumper repair IIRC).

So it's quite versatile then.
>

>The main thing is to bridge the gap.

Ok. In the case of this side panel (it's long thin and goes from the
back of the tank to the end of the taillight) I believe it was broken
by someone pulling it off at the front carelessly (before I got it
honest). The break is very clean and there is no material missing. It
goes about 3/4 the way across the maybe 4" wide lightly 'U' section
plastic, under where the pillion leg might rest. I'm pretty sure there
isn't anything under there when it's in place so I have quite a bit of
room for 'bracing' etc. If it were fiberglass I would simply glass
over some small softwood 'bridges' after putting a layer of glass over
the general area first.


>The patch doesn't need to be very
>thick. In fact if you have room to smother the patch with the filler as
>well as stick it on that is good.

Yup, pretty sure there is plenty of space (but would check before
doing so).

>Needless to say you need to roughen up
>the surface of the inside of the panel and the patch well and make sure
>they are really clean (I gouge them with a sharp screw driver and clean
>using brake cleaner spray).

Understood.

>I've also used it successfully to repair
>broken mounting points on seats (with the aid of a plastic bobbin for
>extra strength). In fact I need to do just that on GFR#2, and the job I
>did on GFR#1 has lasted since 1998.

Good stuff then!
>

All the best ..

T i m
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics? 

T i m <news DeleteThis @spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:lcpgr3lpssnnf2gsfn6f4l2ou35or4jrup@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:39:13 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
> <grimly4REMOVE DeleteThis @REMOVEgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Cracked side panel is a POP to do yersel with a hot air gun and filler
> >rod.
>
> I did a bit of Googling on that before I asked here and it looked like
> the 'basic kit' for plastic welding (inc some sample plastics) was
> gonna cost me 100 notes (for what looked like an everyday hot air
> gun?) and £300+ for something that looked like it would focus the heat
> more specifically (and with a rod feed tube etc). I'm not saying that
> the fist set wouldn't work, but as a fairly long term solderer and
> metal welder I imagined the plastic getting too hot generally and all
> folding up (like welding thin ally)?
>
> I even asked about to see if I could put a decent kit to some extra
> use, to help it pay for itself at least but it was suggested I would
> probably have to do the painting as well and I'm not up for that, not
> right now anyway?
>
> >I've used a soldering iron to good effect, but it's stinky and
> >messy.
>
> I had also considered that, at least just peening / stitching (?) the
> joint together from the back so it's got some continuation to the
> plastic at least. So is the basic idea to build up a plastic weld
> 'bead' over the crack to carry the load round the crack? Or to 'weld'
> some extra material over the crack (sorta the same thing but using
> 'bits' of the same sort of plastic rather than filler rod as such)?
>
I've used a soldering iron a couple of times and it seems to work quit well.
Much like any form of welding the key is to get good penetration. I've got a
small 25W soldering iron (not sure if a larger one would be better or
worse). What I do is clamp the two pieces together, then from the back poke
the soldering iron into the crack until it just starts to come out the other
side, then remove and kind of push the melting plastic back into the hole
with the soldering iron so that it all fuses together and repeat. Something
to use as filler rod is good to help get back to the original thickness. Do
this outside on a breezy day.

Jim
 >> Stay informed about: Will any glue stick bike plastics?