Any future in air-cooled?

Sorry if this is considered topic drift, I have a question for the many
people who know about physics than I do. Compared to 'water'-cooling,
what is the relative cooling effect of adding a similar amount of oil
that is routed to an external cooler?


Would that cool 10% as well as the water/glycol, 50%, 75%?


(eg., an engine that has two litres amongst the sump, transmission,
valve train and cylinder and, at any given time, two more litres
circulating through the external system as opposed to an engine with two
litres of oil and two litres of water/glycol type coolant. Only asking
about the physical or engineering comparison, not whether more engine
oil is politically correct these days!)
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT.RemoveThis@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:

> I don't think so, actually - one of the reasons for having
> smaller-capacity version of the bikes is that in Germany you pay vehicle
> tax per 100cc, so a smaller capacity version makes sense.

I didn't know that.

>Hence them
> getting the R850RTs and GSs, which I think we never officially got. And
> if we didn't (I think the GS was available here but not the RT),

As you say - I've seen the very occasional 850GS appear for sale, but
never an 850RT.


--
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 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

T Shadow <blackhole.RemoveThis@nowhere.void.com> wrote:

>
> Doesn't the 1983 Yamaha Venture fill that too? Assuming being a V-4 doesn't
> rule it out?

As we were talking transverse fours, in this instance, yes it does.

--
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GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Beryl wrote:
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
>
>> Rick Cortese <ricortes RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In these days of 'lean burn' and 'stratified charge' engines I doubt it.
>>> I mean there will always be a niche market for air cooled but the
>>> conditions that exist now in regards to fuel efficiency and polution are
>>> making it difficult. Just as an example of how far it can go, Los
>>> Angeles banned smoking from public beaches because of health and
>>> pollution concerns.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that is an admirable summation.
>
>
> The beach problem is all the Cigarette Butts in the sand, not air
> pollution.

I believe health and second hand smoke were both selling points that
were used too.

It is the modern form of government in action. Rather then deal with
real health threats like raw sewage making the beaches unsafe which
would cost money/taxes, go for spin that costs nothing and shows people
you care.

To wind it around, look for more stuff like the helmet law to happen.
Maybe dress code laws or mandatory/licensed oil change stations as part
of your licensing/registration. Understand I don't smoke and own two
helmets. I'm perfectly capable of changing my own oil and not dumping it
down a sewer drain. It is just that it is so easy to single out a
minority in a form that increases their cost w/o raising everyones taxes.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:18:13 +0000, totallydeadmailbox RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk
(The Older Gentleman) wrote:

>As we were talking transverse fours,

OK. Define "transverse" vs "inline."

(This just might be another trick question.)


--
Turby the Turbosurfer
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Turby <turbosurfer DeleteThis @beach.comber> wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:18:13 +0000, totallydeadmailbox DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk
> (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>
> >As we were talking transverse fours,
>
> OK. Define "transverse" vs "inline."
>
> (This just might be another trick question.)

<G>

Same thing, really, except that transverse usually refers to the way the
cylinders are arrange wrt to the chassis.

So a Nimbus or an old BMW K is "inline". And most Jap fours are
transverse.

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Rick Cortese wrote:
> Beryl wrote:
....

>> The beach problem is all the Cigarette Butts in the sand, not air
>> pollution.
>
>
> I believe health and second hand smoke were both selling points that
> were used too.

Absolutely, but that was pretty far-fetched. The bustling Pacific Coast
Highway runs right along the beach too.
Trash in the sand was a valid complaint.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Turby wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:18:13 +0000, totallydeadmailbox.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk
> (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>
>> As we were talking transverse fours,
>
> OK. Define "transverse" vs "inline."
>
> (This just might be another trick question.)
>
>

Transverse would mean that the axis of the crankshaft goes across the bike.

Inline merely means all the cylinders are in a straight line, as opposed
to a V or an opposed cylinder layout.

So, an inline motor can be transversely mounted, (or not) but a
transversely mounted motor does not have to be an inline motor. The
Honda V4s are an example of transversely mounted non-inline motors.

--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE
outback_jon.TakeThisOut@ver.no.sp.am.izon.net
AMD Opteron 165 (@2.5) and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power...
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 53560

2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

"Outback Jon" <teammft.DeleteThis@ver.no.sp.am.izon.net> wrote in message
news:6ksxj.13866$Sw6.11621@trnddc06...
> Turby wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:18:13 +0000, totallydeadmailbox.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk
> > (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
> >
> >> As we were talking transverse fours,
> >
> > OK. Define "transverse" vs "inline."
> >
> > (This just might be another trick question.)
> >
> >
>
> Transverse would mean that the axis of the crankshaft goes across the
bike.
>
> Inline merely means all the cylinders are in a straight line, as opposed
> to a V or an opposed cylinder layout.
>
> So, an inline motor can be transversely mounted, (or not) but a
> transversely mounted motor does not have to be an inline motor. The
> Honda V4s are an example of transversely mounted non-inline motors.
>
> --

Except the ST.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

On Feb 27, 9:48�am, Rick Cortese <ricor....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> It is the modern form of government in action. Rather then deal with
> real health threats like raw sewage making the beaches unsafe which
> would cost money/taxes, go for spin that costs nothing and shows people
> you care.

I think you're confusing the storm drain system with the sewer system.
The storm drain system is just that, it's intended to channel rain
water to the bay, and if there is a high bacteria count after a rain,
it's because of what people dumped or washed into the storm drains at
the curbs.

I can only think of one occasion when partially treated sewage from a
pumping plant wound up in the storm drain system at Ballona Creek.

> Maybe dress code laws or mandatory/licensed oil change stations as part
> of your licensing/registration. Understand I don't smoke and own two
> helmets. I'm perfectly capable of changing my own oil and not dumping it
> down a sewer drain.

But would you even consider taking your used motor oil into your
bathroom and flushing it down the toilet? That's how oil would get
into the sewer system.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

.. wrote:
> On Feb 27, 9:48�am, Rick Cortese <ricor....TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>It is the modern form of government in action. Rather then deal with
>>real health threats like raw sewage making the beaches unsafe which
>>would cost money/taxes, go for spin that costs nothing and shows people
>>you care.
>
>
> I think you're confusing the storm drain system with the sewer system.
> The storm drain system is just that, it's intended to channel rain
> water to the bay, and if there is a high bacteria count after a rain,
> it's because of what people dumped or washed into the storm drains at
> the curbs.

Correct about LA but we just had a sewage treatment plant overflow in SF
bay. Had two ships hit bridges too with one dumping quite a bit of fuel
oil into the bay. Just took my sailboat out the bay yesterday so I have
a vested interest.<grin>
<snip>
> But would you even consider taking your used motor oil into your
> bathroom and flushing it down the toilet? That's how oil would get
> into the sewer system.

I wouldn't, you wouldn't, but I have no doubt that it is done. Maybe not
at someones home but down a drain that feeds into a sewer system at work
for instance.

The problems with waste oil go beyond just making it into the ocean. SF
and LA import most of their water from the Sierra but for much of
California they pump ground water.

If it sounds like I am blowing hot and cold it is because (1) I dispose
of my oil properly. (2) A law will just add a level of buracracy (3) If
someone is dumping oil on the ground, down a storm drain, or into the
sewer system now, a law will probably have no effect on their behavior
since these are already illegal.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

.. wrote:
> On Feb 27, 9:48�am, Rick Cortese <ricor....DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>It is the modern form of government in action. Rather then deal with
>>real health threats like raw sewage making the beaches unsafe which
>>would cost money/taxes, go for spin that costs nothing and shows people
>>you care.
>
>
> I think you're confusing the storm drain system with the sewer system.

Malibu is confused too. Tapia wastewater treatment plant, adjacent to
public park in malibu canyon, discharges overload into malibu creek.
That flows down to lagoon at the beach. A bulldozer breaches the sand
berm around the lagoon when it overfills. Neat system...
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

On Feb 28, 1:39�pm, Beryl <flyingterra....DeleteThis@chillybits.org> wrote:
> . wrote:
> > I think you're confusing the storm drain system with the sewer system.
>
> Malibu is confused too.

Malibu Creek is an unchannelized storm drain. It would look terrible
if it was concrete-lined, wouldn't it>

> Tapia wastewater treatment plant, adjacent to
> public park in malibu canyon, discharges overload into malibu creek.
> That flows down to lagoon at the beach. A bulldozer breaches the sand
> berm around the lagoon when it overfills. Neat system...

So the lagoon is a natural biological trickling filter where I can
watch ducks and shore birds. While the birds are swimming and diving
in it, bacteria is hppily digesting whatever nutrients (if any) are
still in the water.

Tapia is prohibited from discharging what is supposed to be fully
treated, drinking-water pure effluent to the ocean from May to
November.

Tapia engineers wanted to construct more ponds upstream to be natural
trickling filters.

http://malibusurfsidenews.com/blog/2007_08_01_archive.html
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled?