Any future in air-cooled?

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> The only water-cooled triple I can think of is the BMW K75 series.

Triumph Trident 900 (from the 90's not the 70's)
various Benellis - Tre, TNT, etc
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Bob Scott wrote:

> tomorrow RemoveThis @erols.com <tomorrow RemoveThis @erols.com> writes
>>On Feb 26, 12:28 pm, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, and here's a little interesting question (x-posted to
>>> reeky).
>>>
>>> What was the first Japanese water-cooled four cylinder four-stroke
>>> motorcycle?
>>
>>In mass production, iirc, the 1984 Kawasaki GPZ900, in the U.S. known
>>as the Ninja 900.
>
> Nah, previous decade, different factory & different engine layout.
>
> GL1000?
>
> Has there been a Japanese water-cooled four stroke triple? I can think
> of singles, twins, 4s & 6s but not a triple...

I think you're thinking of the early to mid seventies TWO STROKE Suzuki
Water Buffalo triple cylinder. Like someone after you said only the the
Europeans made water cooled triples but not until the 90's (Triumph, BMW &
maybe some exotics, like Bennelli) The Goldwing boxer four in the mid to
late seventies was the 1st Japanese 4 stroke bike with liquid cooling. Then
nothing until the 900 Ninja & RZ-350/500=(two stokes) in 84 like Tim
quoted. BTW, Tim had an RZ-350 too.

--
Bob Nixon, RZ-350, SV-650, Chandler, AZ.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> In rec.motorcycles, Doug Payne wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> The only water-cooled triple I can think of is the BMW K75 series.
>> Triumph Trident 900 (from the 90's not the 70's)
>> various Benellis - Tre, TNT, etc
>
> Key words: "I can think of..." <g>
> and just because there is one in the garage.
> (desperately waiting for the snow to stop - it's coming down heavily)

I only knew because I've always had a thing for triples. In the
early 70s I had a BSA Rocket 3 and a Kaw H1 and I always lusted after
the modern Trident. It's snowing here too. Sigh.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

TOG@Toil wrote:
>
> I'm amazed by how far the Japs have come with their watercooled fours,
> since the mid-1970s. Not just in terms of power, but also reduced
> weight. Mind you, that applies to just about every aspect of Jap bike
> technology.

I had an opportunity to have a good look over the new 10R recently. It's
amazing because it seems every part of it is fragile and skeletal, yet still
very strong and capable of containing that engine. Every part you look at in
detail is drilled, milled, or full of holes! WUN would love to take one
apart, I'm sure. The salesman told me it's quite a noisy bike though, simply
because Kawasaki skimmed off so much of the water jacket to reduce weight.

The wheel hubs were impressive - completely hollow with large cutouts and
the metal is so thin you'd think they would never put up with the
centrifugal forces, let alone the massive torque. The whole bike weighs only
179kg. Mine weighs... 188kg! Incredible thing.

--
Si - XV535
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Beauregard T. Shagnasty <a.nony.mous.RemoveThis@example.invalid> writes
>In rec.motorcycles, Bob Scott wrote:
>
>> Has there been a Japanese water-cooled four stroke triple? I can think
>> of singles, twins, 4s & 6s but not a triple...
>
>The only water-cooled triple I can think of is the BMW K75 series.
>
[]

Triumph have been, since '91 or so, making water cooled triples in a
variety of capacities (675, 750, 900 & 1050). Benelli make one as well
but I'm toiling to think of any others - Laverda had a prototype &
Aprilia raced one in MotoGP but neither made it into production.

Actually, I'm quite surprised that the Italians, Brits & Germans have
all made them but not the Japanese. I mean, Honda seem to have made
every configuration of engine imaginable except for the 4 stroke
triple...
--
Bob Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

tomorrow RemoveThis @erols.com <tomorrow RemoveThis @erols.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 12:28 pm, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Actually, and here's a little interesting question (x-posted to
> > reeky).
> >
> > What was the first Japanese water-cooled four cylinder four-stroke
> > motorcycle?
>
> In mass production, iirc, the 1984 Kawasaki GPZ900, in the U.S. known
> as the Ninja 900.

Wrong!


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

tomorrow DeleteThis @erols.com <tomorrow DeleteThis @erols.com> wrote:

> On Feb 26, 12:49 pm, Bob Scott <B... DeleteThis @bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
> > tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com <tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com> writes
> >
> > >On Feb 26, 12:28 pm, "TOG@Toil" <totallydeadmail... DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk>
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >> Actually, and here's a little interesting question (x-posted to
> > >> reeky).
> >
> > >> What was the first Japanese water-cooled four cylinder four-stroke
> > >> motorcycle?
> >
> > >In mass production, iirc, the 1984 Kawasaki GPZ900, in the U.S. known
> > >as the Ninja 900.
> >
> > Nah, previous decade, different factory & different engine layout.
> >
> > GL1000?
>
> Argh! And I even *HAD* a second-year (1976) example! Of course, my
> blind spot was blithely thinking ONLY of inline fours!

<G>

I knew I'd catch someone )

And the 900R wasn't the first water-cooled across the frame four the
Japs built, either. Oddly enough. Lots of people think it was, but
they're wrong.

In early 1983, one of the Big Four made a DOHC 16-valve water-cooled
across the frame four, but it sank into near obscurity. A virtual pint
for anyone who can name it.




--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Bob Scott <Bob.RemoveThis@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:

> Actually, I'm quite surprised that the Italians, Brits & Germans have
> all made them but not the Japanese. I mean, Honda seem to have made
> every configuration of engine imaginable except for the 4 stroke
> triple...

Coughyamahaxs750xs850cough


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Bob Scott <Bob.DeleteThis@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:

> Nah, previous decade, different factory & different engine layout.
>
> GL1000?

Right!

--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

_Bob_Nixon_ <bilbo RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:

> The Goldwing boxer four in the mid to
> late seventies was the 1st Japanese 4 stroke bike with liquid cooling. Then
> nothing until the 900 Ninja

Wrong! See other posting. And besides, aren't you forgetting the Honda
VF750 and other early vees?


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

Doug Payne <dwpayne DeleteThis @ist.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> a Kaw H1

I had an H1D. Wonderful and dreadful machine. I preferred the 400. The
250 was fun, but a bit wet. The 400 was definitely the best of the
three, all-round.

I still hanker after an H2C, mind.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

"LJ" <laremoDelete DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:

> "The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1icvs5e.1w7m7lslquo04N%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
>>I was just wondering, looking at that new Honda 1100cc thing, that's
>> air-cooled, due to some rather clever ducting between the barrels...
>>
>> I mean, the Japanese have been building four-stroke fours for nearly 35
>> years now, and with modern pollution (noise, exhaust) I thought
>> watercooled was here to stay.
>>
>> But I suppose if you're not after ultimate power, air-cooled may still
>> have a future. After all, more power = more noise, so a softly tuned
>> bike...
>>
>> Thoughts, anyone?
>>

<snip>

> I currently have three bikes in my garage and they are all air or air/oil
> cooled and the two larger bikes have minor heat-related issues. The pipes
> on my 1150 Beemer will occaisionaly turn cherry red in slow traffic on warm
> days and my Harley gets hot on the legs when it gets over 80 or 85
> degrees.

The reason they're doing that is because both run very lean from the
factory (I think the Harley even more than the BMW) in order to pass
emissions legislation. And obviously the

> I've also seen Harleys suffer in slow traffic (like at Sturgis) to the
> extent that the riders pull over for a cool-down,but this hasn't happened to
> me.

I think it's worse on the very latest ones (1550cc twin cams) as they
supposedly run extremely lean thanks to the wonders of modern engine
management.

> Both of these engines were initially designed a long time ago and the
> engineers have now pretty much pushed the design to their limits.

I think that's a "yes and no". Both engines share the same basic layout
with their older siblings but are substantially different. That said,
both are very large capacity and thus slow-revving twins, which is a
layout that doesn't really lend itself to low emissions (partially
because you've got rather big combustion chambers so you tend to get
incomplete burns).

--
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_Bob_Nixon_ <bilbo RemoveThis @nospam.com> writes
>Bob Scott wrote:
>
[]
>>
>> Has there been a Japanese water-cooled four stroke triple? I can think
>> of singles, twins, 4s & 6s but not a triple...
>
>I think you're thinking of the early to mid seventies TWO STROKE Suzuki
>Water Buffalo triple cylinder.

Nope, I was careful to specify four stroke because both Suzuki & Honda
had made 2 stroke water cooled triples.

>Like someone after you said only the the
>Europeans made water cooled triples but not until the 90's (Triumph, BMW &
>maybe some exotics, like Bennelli)

BMW were making the triples from the early '80s on. Dunno when they
stopped.
--
Bob Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled?