Any future in air-cooled?

Bob Scott <Bob RemoveThis @bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:

> Cor, I must have missed the water cooled XSs.

Heh. Good point; my bad.
>
> Never actually ridden an XS triple,

Surprisingly good to ride, especially the 850. Shame about the
mechanical integrity.


--
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Bob Scott <Bob.TakeThisOut@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:

> BMW were making the triples from the early '80s on. Dunno when they
> stopped.

The K75 was launched in 1985. Production continued until the mid-1990s -
I can't recall the exact year. 1995-96, I think.


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The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> writes
[]
>
>And the 900R wasn't the first water-cooled across the frame four the
>Japs built, either. Oddly enough. Lots of people think it was, but
>they're wrong.
>
>In early 1983, one of the Big Four made a DOHC 16-valve water-cooled
>across the frame four, but it sank into near obscurity. A virtual pint
>for anyone who can name it.
>
Hmmm, let me think. '83? Near obscurity? That'd be around the tail end
of Yamaha & Honda building as many dumb things as possible.

For some reason I'm expecting it to be a 400 or even a 250 but it's
probably not. Hmmm some more.

GSX400W?

(I'll admit it, I googled)
--
Bob Scott
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totallydeadmailbox RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:

> Bob Scott <Bob RemoveThis @bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> BMW were making the triples from the early '80s on. Dunno when they
>> stopped.
>
> The K75 was launched in 1985. Production continued until the mid-1990s -
> I can't recall the exact year. 1995-96, I think.

CBA to go downstairs to check (and BMW seems to have removed the link to
their 'history') but this sounds about right. I think they were pretty
much phased out around the time the K1100s came in but with a certain
overlap, which would put it somewhere in the 94-96 range.

--
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The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmailbox.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Bob Scott <Bob.RemoveThis@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> BMW were making the triples from the early '80s on. Dunno when they
>> stopped.
>
>The K75 was launched in 1985. Production continued until the mid-1990s -
>I can't recall the exact year. 1995-96, I think.
>
Can't really class 85 as early '80s, can I? Oh well, I remembered K75s
as having been around when I started riding bikes[1] so assumed they'd
appeared earlier than they had.

Best stop wasting time online & go finish sorting the triple indicators
- 3 of them work so I'll be dismangling the 4th one & cannibalising the
broken ones to see if I can get all 4 to work. Then I need to get the
front brake light to work. Joy, I hate electrics.

Bob

[1] my mate taught me to ride (the basics anyway) on his Dad's B25 one
Sunday in the local industrial estate. Summer 85 I reckon that was.
--
Bob Scott
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Bob Scott <Bob.DeleteThis@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:

>
> GSX400W?
>
> (I'll admit it, I googled)

Close enough. GSX400FW, in fact.

Built for the Japanese 400cc market, but a very few came over to Europe
for evaluation by various importers.

Suzuki Sweden had one. I rode it in the summer of 1983, hammering it
down forest roads. As smooth as anything, very revvy, light handling,
but actually not as quick as the spec suggested it ought to be. The
write-up appeared in Superbike that autumn. A couple of months later
Kawasaki announced the 900R.

It's odd, isn't it? That little Suzuki is actually a historic bike, but
hardly anyone has ever heard of it, still less ridden it.

This month's issue of Classic & Motorcycle Mechanics, though, has a pic
and a correct date check.

And people still call the Kawasaki 900R the first Jap water-cooled
across the frame four. Because almost all the press make that claim. But
they are (and were) wrong.

IOU a virtual pint. What's your poison?


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
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Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT.TakeThisOut@unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:

> CBA to go downstairs to check (and BMW seems to have removed the link to
> their 'history') but this sounds about right. I think they were pretty
> much phased out around the time the K1100s came in but with a certain
> overlap, which would put it somewhere in the 94-96 range.

A double check shows that the original K75C was, indeed, launched in
1985. The S followed a year later.

Both models were discontinued in 1995, but the final version of the
K75RT lasted until 1996.

That's in the UK, anyway. It's possible that other markets had the bikes
for longer.

--
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totallydeadmailbox RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk (The Older Gentleman) writes:

> Timo Geusch <tnewsSPAMMENOT RemoveThis @unixconsult.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> CBA to go downstairs to check (and BMW seems to have removed the link to
>> their 'history') but this sounds about right. I think they were pretty
>> much phased out around the time the K1100s came in but with a certain
>> overlap, which would put it somewhere in the 94-96 range.
>
> A double check shows that the original K75C was, indeed, launched in
> 1985. The S followed a year later.
>
> Both models were discontinued in 1995, but the final version of the
> K75RT lasted until 1996.
>
> That's in the UK, anyway. It's possible that other markets had the bikes
> for longer.

I don't think so, actually - one of the reasons for having
smaller-capacity version of the bikes is that in Germany you pay vehicle
tax per 100cc, so a smaller capacity version makes sense. Hence them
getting the R850RTs and GSs, which I think we never officially got. And
if we didn't (I think the GS was available here but not the RT), it
didn't sell very well. And of course smaller-capacity bikes are cheaper
to insure as well....

--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport | 900SSD | R1150RT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
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"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
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"The Older Gentleman" <totallydeadmailbox.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1icxsv0.7phw8mmbcu3cN%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk...
> Bob Scott <Bob.DeleteThis@bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Cor, I must have missed the water cooled XSs.
>
> Heh. Good point; my bad.
> >
> > Never actually ridden an XS triple,
>
> Surprisingly good to ride, especially the 850. Shame about the
> mechanical integrity.
>

I always thought the 78 750 I owned had a truck like feel to it(transmission
especially). I traded an RD400 for it and traded it in for a GS1100 so it
may not be a fair comparison. The only thing memorable about it was the
chassis rise from the shaft and how much less effort was needed for cleaning
compared to a chain drive. Never had a problem but only had it 2 years.
Can't complain.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

The Older Gentleman wrote:
> Rick Cortese <ricortes.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>In these days of 'lean burn' and 'stratified charge' engines I doubt it.
>>I mean there will always be a niche market for air cooled but the
>>conditions that exist now in regards to fuel efficiency and polution are
>>making it difficult. Just as an example of how far it can go, Los
>>Angeles banned smoking from public beaches because of health and
>>pollution concerns.
>
>
> I think that is an admirable summation.

The beach problem is all the Cigarette Butts in the sand, not air pollution.
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled? 

On Feb 26, 7:34�pm, paul c <toledoby....DeleteThis@ac.ooyah> wrote:
> Sorry if this is considered topic drift, I have a question for the many
> people who know about physics than I do. �Compared to 'water'-cooling,
> what is the relative effect of adding a similar amount of oil that is
> routed to an external cooler?

In 1985, Suzuki announced their new Suzuki Advanced Cooling system
which used extra oil and a large oil cooler. This system was used on
GSXR's and Katanas for 20 years, until more stringent emissions
requirements pointed towards
water cooling and fuel injection for the GSXF650 successor to the
Katana.

The specific heat of water is 1.0. It takes 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of
water 1 degree Fahrenheit.

The specific heat of oil is about 0.5, so it takes 0.5 BTU to raise 1
pound of oil 1 degree F.

The specific heat of pure glycol is also about 0.5, but nobody I know
is using anything but a 50% glycol/water mixture for a street bike if
they live in an area where it freezes in the winter.

The specific heat of coolant is probably about 0.75 and it is slightly
better in picking up heat to move it to a radiator than oil is.

Suzuki took advantage of the fact that the extra 2 quarts of oil in a
GSXR motor with SACS can make direct with the moving parts, instead of
having to be kept separate from the moving parts as is needed with
coolant.

Suzuki flooded the top of the combustion chambers with so much oil
they needed 1-inch diameter return tubes from the cam covers to the
crankcase. And they aimed jets of oil up under the pistons to cool the
piston heads.

One tech article I read concerning the GSXR was that oil temperature
could never exceed 260 degrees Centigrade with the SACS system. I
think that was a mistake, because 260 C is 500 degrees F and my Suzuki
manual never said anything about using a synthetic oil.

I think that the SACS design keeps the oil temperature down to less
than 260 degrees F.

Of course, street bikes don't make nearly as much heat as race bikes,
so the SACS oil cooler is only about 12" X 15". The racing kit oil
cooler is thicker and a second, triangular shaped cooler was built to
fit inside the fairing lowers.

Race kits for water-cooled bikes look the same, and rules don't allow
the use of slippery glycol.

Impoverished WERA racers couldn't afford to buy factory race kits, so
they stuck rectangular oil coolers anywhere they could, even up under
the seat.
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<tomorrow RemoveThis @erols.com> wrote in message
news:eff60ddf-c902-4111-b845-efee12737311@72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 26, 4:19 pm, Bob Scott <B... RemoveThis @bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
> The Older Gentleman <totallydeadmail... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> writes>Bob Scott
<B... RemoveThis @bobandaileen.co.uk> wrote:
>

I had a 1979 XS750F Yamaha triple, and I can't for the life of me
recall it being water-cooled.

Only when it rains.
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tomorrow.TakeThisOut@erols.com <tomorrow.TakeThisOut@erols.com> wrote:

> > Wrong!
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Serves me right for not thinking more critically!

Heh. It's a lovely trick question, all the same.


--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
 >> Stay informed about: Any future in air-cooled?