Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels

"Andrew" <yogig.no.spam.mmm.spam. RemoveThis @n.o.sp.am.@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5pe5f1Fr0macU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "The Older Gentleman" <chateau.murray.takethisout RemoveThis @dsl.pipex.com> wrote in
> message
> news:1i775ma.l1tt9k1f4qgm2N%chateau.murray.takethisout@dsl.pipex.com...
>> Konrad Viltersten <tmp1 RemoveThis @viltersten.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
>>> if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
>>> the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
>>> slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
>>> tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
>>> you back. That "somebody" being of course the
>>> engine momentum being kept up.
>>>
>>> What do the experts say?
>>>
>> Learn to ride and buy a bike with ABS.
>>
>
> I'm not sure this guy is going to get out alive.

He lives in Sweden where there's no traffic, so unless he starves to death
while trapped alone and injured under his bike for the duration of winter,
he'll survive. Well I hope he does, there's precious few Swedes left these
days:)


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19

>
>
> --
>
> Andrew
> 00 Daytona
> 00 Speed Triple
> 71 Kawi H1
> 05 Kiddo
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

In article <mgu4j39jgeggmk867tm7cactk25pk7h9oj.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
Alan Moore <alan.s.moore.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:26:14 -0800, Timberwoof
> <timberwoof.spam.RemoveThis@infernosoft.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <5pcvt8Fq34eqU1.RemoveThis@mid.individual.net>,
> > Konrad Viltersten <tmp1.RemoveThis@viltersten.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
> >> if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
> >> the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
> >> slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
> >> tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
> >> you back. That "somebody" being of course the
> >> engine momentum being kept up.
> >>
> >> What do the experts say?
> >
> >First, even with engine braking, the braking force is transmitted
> >through the tire. The tire and the rest of the motorcycle can't tell the
> >difference between engine braking and brake braking.
> >
> >Second, engine braking applies only to the rear wheel. You could lock up
> >the rear wheel, which has problems of its own.
>
> <pedant> One of the virtues of engine braking is that you are unlikely
> to actually stop the wheel's rotation. Unless, of course, you've
> stopped your engine first... </pedant>

I should have been more clear: You can break the rear wheel's traction
with the pavement. The rear wheel would still be rotating, but not at
the road speed.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

Konrad Viltersten wrote:

>I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
>if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
>the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
>slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
>tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
>you back. That "somebody" being of course the
>engine momentum being kept up.

Where do these people come from?

>What do the experts say?

To use your head, to start.
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:56:09 -0500, "Tom K."
<tkorth1.DeleteThis@spamspamcomcast.net> wrote:

>Exactly. Plus if you are in traffic, your brake light will warn the cagers
>behind you.

A tip - on most bikes you can adjust your brake light so it comes on
before your brakes grab. That means you can tap your brakes, the
lights go on, but you're not actually braking. It can be useful for
waking up the BDC (brain-dead cager) behind you who's talking on her
cell-phone as she's creeping up your butt.

--
Turby the Turbosurfer
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

dizzy skrev:
> Konrad Viltersten wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
>> if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
>> the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
>> slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
>> tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
>> you back. That "somebody" being of course the
>> engine momentum being kept up.
>
> Where do these people come from?
>
>> What do the experts say?
>
> To use your head, to start.
>

Given that you're not requestin a walkthru of human
history as to where we come from, what exactly was
your point here?

As to using my head - i'd actually prefer the brakes
or the engine to do the job. It sounds very
inconvenient and ineffective to brake using my head.



Konrad
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

On Nov 8, 5:54 am, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
> dizzy wrote:
> >Where do these people come from?
>
> He's a Swedish IT student with no mechanical background whatever.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg
>
> --
> Message posted viahttp://www.motorcyclekb.com

Once again, allbitch chimes in with his hysterical homophobic
responses and insults.
You are definitely an ASSet to the NG allbitch.
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

Timberwoof wrote:

>None of your business, and off-topic for this newsgroup. So. What's with
>all this juvenile queer-baiting? That means, why are you acting like a
>thirteen-year-old?

If you talk like a junior high school fairy, I'll answer you in a way that a
junior high school fairy would understand.

--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB.com
http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/bike/200711/1
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

dizzy wrote:

>Where do these people come from?

He's a Swedish IT student with no mechanical background whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg

--
Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

In article <7ae6648c61394@uwe>,
"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:

> Timberwoof wrote:
>
> >None of your business, and off-topic for this newsgroup. So. What's with
> >all this juvenile queer-baiting? That means, why are you acting like a
> >thirteen-year-old?
>
> If you talk like a junior high school fairy, I'll answer you in a way that a
> junior high school fairy would understand.

Oh, you hurt my feelings so bad. Okay, you win this pissing contest.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

"Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.TakeThisOut@viltersten.com> wrote in message
news:5pek7rFqvkinU1@mid.individual.net...
> J. Clarke skrev:
>> Konrad Viltersten wrote:
>>> I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
>>> if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
>>> the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
>>> slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
>>> tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
>>> you back. That "somebody" being of course the
>>> engine momentum being kept up.
>>>
>>> What do the experts say?
>>
>> Uh, the friction force _is_ being applied by rubbing the tires on the
>> pavement when you are engine braking, unless you're riding a jet bike
>> with a thrust reverser or something else equally exotic.
>
> I guess i was hoping for the same kind of effect
> that you'll get when you ride uphill and disengage
> the clutch. You will slow down but not because of
> the friction between the tires and the pavement
> but because of the enegry loss due to keeping the
> heavy machinery moving.
>
> I reasoned, obviously faultly, that keeping the
> engine spinning was the same kind of energy
> comsuming deed.
>
> Anyway - thanks to all of you.
>
> Konrad

All I know is DON'T hit the brakes hard.

The rest is still a mystery to me, as well. Being a So Cal boy, and all..
I've gone down on the ice, on the Crest, doing nothing but coasting and/or
riding slowly.

Thumper
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

Alan Moore wrote:
>
> <pedant> One of the virtues of engine braking is that you are unlikely
> to actually stop the wheel's rotation. Unless, of course, you've
> stopped your engine first... </pedant>

Not true. Here's why...everyone uses engine braking every time they lay
off the throttle and 'coast' in gear. The engine acts as a drag and the
bike slows down,(unless it's on a steep hill or something). The
wheel-locking problem happens when the engine is braking the bike on a
slippery road and the rider downshifts. At the lower gear the rear
wheel needs to speed the engine up. If the road is slippery, instead
of the engine speeding up when you downshift you get the rear wheel
breaking loose if there is not enough friction on the rear wheel to
speed up the engine. Of course, you can pull the clutch in, throttle up
the engine revs to match the lower gear, make the downshift, release the
clutch, and then continue engine braking but that is an acquired skill.
Inexperienced riders can and do lose control when they downshift in
slippery conditions (or on a hard turn).


--
Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

In article <5pek7rFqvkinU1.TakeThisOut@mid.individual.net>,
Konrad Viltersten <tmp1.TakeThisOut@viltersten.com> wrote:

> J. Clarke skrev:
> > Konrad Viltersten wrote:
> >> I'm wondering if it's a good idea to engine brake
> >> if it's slipper on the road. The way i'm reasoning,
> >> the wheels shouldn't loose traction since the
> >> slowing down force is not applied by rubbing the
> >> tires on the pavement but rather "somebody" pulling
> >> you back. That "somebody" being of course the
> >> engine momentum being kept up.
> >>
> >> What do the experts say?
> >
> > Uh, the friction force _is_ being applied by rubbing the tires on the
> > pavement when you are engine braking, unless you're riding a jet bike
> > with a thrust reverser or something else equally exotic.
>
> I guess i was hoping for the same kind of effect
> that you'll get when you ride uphill and disengage
> the clutch. You will slow down but not because of
> the friction between the tires and the pavement
> but because of the enegry loss due to keeping the
> heavy machinery moving.

That is the conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy. The
important point to note is that the machine itself does not provide an
energy store.

> I reasoned, obviously faultly, that keeping the
> engine spinning was the same kind of energy
> comsuming deed.

Engines aren't designed to store energy. If you want spinning storage,
look into using a flywheel. Of course, having such a gyroscope on a
motorcycle might not be the best idea. Also keep in mind that *any*
sort of on-vehicle regenerative braking is *still* going to require a
good contact patch with the road.

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, googlegroups.com,
heapnode.com, localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels 

Bike Guy Joe wrote:

>Once again, allbitch chimes in with his hysterical homophobic
>responses and insults.
> You are definitely an ASSet to the NG allbitch.

You answered the wrong post with your diatribe, fun buns.

Queers invented the illogical term "homophobia" to incorrectly describe the
disgust that normal people feel towards them as some kind of illogical "fear".


The only people who use the term "homophobia" are queers.

You're a queer.

Queers are also trying to usurp the word "queer" for themselves, just like
niggers did with "the n-word" but I won't let them get away with it, I will
call a queer a queer.

--
Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
 >> Stay informed about: Breaking on slippery road without locking the wheels