clear creek

keith wibbles:

 >Marx & Engels? All that Das Kapital managed-economies for proletarian
 >bliss stuff? Gotcha, cool! You and Rowdy.

Just for the edification of the masses, you might like to know what
"leftist" really means. It is (from webster but take your pick of
other
dictionaries if you'd like):
one professing views usually characterized by desire to reform or
overthrow the established order especially in politics and usually
advocating change in the name of the greater freedom or well-being
of the common man

How that translates to econazi-ism I don't know. Don't think it
does. That's less freedom not more.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

keith communizes:

 >When in doubt, collectivize the throttle!

I think this is an excellent idea as long as I get to yank
yours.

Or twist yours.

Ummm, pull yours?

This isn't sounding right.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

Keith points out:

 >As a results-oriented type I don't see the State as a big contributor,
 >since bureaucracy always screws things up hopelessly and puts the
 >people involved into temptation after temptation they can't handle.
 >It's just endemic corruption institutionalized.

I agree wholeheartedly. I was really hoping for the "nuclear option"
just
so the butt nozzle republicans couldn't do any more damage. The
twat brain democrats already can't thanks to a little election fraud
here
and there. The Clinton years were good for the economy because
neither side had enough power to do anything stupid. And both
sides are stupid.

Too bad the Republicans didn't have the balls to stand up to the
econazis on wilderness during Clinton. I had to start my own
letter campaign to convince my butt nozzle representative not to be a
sponsor of the Utah wilderness plan. And he's a god-fucking-fearing
republican that left his wife for a congressional aid.

They are all filthy dirty scum sucking rats, mostly lawyers. Start
from
that premise and you'll be much better off.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S,.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

   >>>Bullshit. Leftists and econazis may be a large
   >>>overlap but they
   >>>are not the same thing.

 >Interesting conversation might I interject a
 >thought or three?
 >
  >> So, overlap - how to describe it? I was
  >> thinking of something along
  >> the lines of; "not all Leftists are Ecoweenies,
  >> but all Ecoweenies are
  >> Leftists?"
 >
 >Actually the ecoweenies are more facsists that
 >leftists.

But Leftist/Socialists are on the Fascist /Authoritarian continuum -
they are Statists and totalitarian.

  >>Or are they outside that frame essentially,
  >>"Arborists." ?
 >
 >And the current crop of Arborists AREN'T. What I
 >mean is that REAL Arborists would be mortified at
 >how the U.S. handles it's national forests. What
 >with the poor managment to such a point that there
 >are oft times uncontrollable fires. With proper
 >managment i.e. allowing fires but keeping it in
 >the national forests such that the undergrowth and
 >dead wood are burnt off but the healthy trees
 >survive. With less undergrowth and deadwood you
 >have less wildfires, that's a GOOD THING isn't it?
 >Naturally you need to reintroduce some animals
 >that have been stupidly removed from their natural
 >range. Animals that help regulate undergrowth and
 >other animal populations. i.e. bring back wolves
 >to keep down the wapiti population.

And Grizzly bears! Just don't put them both in an enclosure, arguing
over a cow-bone...
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=CAN%20Grizzly%20Wolf" target="_blank">http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&sl...CAN%20G</a>


 >Oh bother, I just can't seem to say what I mean.
 >Never mind I'll just go sulk over how hard it is
 >to find DR370 parts.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bikeboneyard.com/79%20dr-370.html" target="_blank">http://www.bikeboneyard.com/79%20dr-370.html</a>


 >SNIP
 >
  >> -keith
  >> When in doubt, collectivize the throttle!
 >
 >screw that! If the throttle is in MY hand I'm the
 >ONE person that will decide HOW much twist (or
 >not) it will receive.

Isn't the throttle(s)/stick/controls on a helicopter called "the
Collective"?
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg" target="_blank">http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg</a>

HTH

-keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

"-keith" <khunwick.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kbdba1599hfusndm95j9vl4ebo9f3d9nss@4ax.com...
 >
   >>>>Bullshit. Leftists and econazis may be a
   >>>>large
   >>>>overlap but they
   >>>>are not the same thing.
 >
  >>Interesting conversation might I interject a
  >>thought or three?
  >>
   >>> So, overlap - how to describe it? I was
   >>> thinking of something along
   >>> the lines of; "not all Leftists are
   >>> Ecoweenies,
   >>> but all Ecoweenies are
   >>> Leftists?"
  >>
  >>Actually the ecoweenies are more facsists that
  >>leftists.
 >
 > But Leftist/Socialists are on the Fascist
 > /Authoritarian continuum -
 > they are Statists and totalitarian.

ITYM Stalinists...no real difference from fascists
really.

SNIP

 >
 > And Grizzly bears! Just don't put them both in
 > an enclosure, arguing
 > over a cow-bone...
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=CAN%20Grizzly%20Wolf</font" target="_blank">http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&sl...CAN%20G</a>>
 >

DUH...who ever thought that was smart needs a
reality check. I appreciate that someone got my
point though.

  >>Oh bother, I just can't seem to say what I mean.
  >>Never mind I'll just go sulk over how hard it is
  >>to find DR370 parts.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bikeboneyard.com/79%20dr-370.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.bikeboneyard.com/79%20dr-370.html</font</a>>

bitch... ;^) you get my point though. Also I've
found some others for bits and such. What I want
(but most likely wont get) is a NOS primary and
secondary mufflers.

  >>SNIP
  >>
   >>> -keith
   >>> When in doubt, collectivize the throttle!
  >>
  >>screw that! If the throttle is in MY hand I'm
  >>the
  >>ONE person that will decide HOW much twist (or
  >>not) it will receive.
 >
 > Isn't the throttle(s)/stick/controls on a
 > helicopter called "the
 > Collective"?
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg</font" target="_blank">http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg</font</a>>

Yes it is but that's not what he meant! That was
some damend bolsheveck thinking he was using! We'd
all have been better off if the menshevecks won
that tussle.

 >
--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:57:27 -0600, "Keith Schiffner"
<schistan.RemoveThis@3rivers.net> wrote:

<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg</font" target="_blank">http://static.howstuffworks.com/mpeg/heli-collective.mpg</font</a>>
 >
 >Yes it is but that's not what he meant! That was
 >some damend bolsheveck thinking he was using! We'd
 >all have been better off if the menshevecks won
 >that tussle.

How's that Python song go? "Men, men , menshevecks..."?
Where was Trotsky when you needed him? Off doing PR...


-keithsheviknik<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

On 7 Jun 2005 09:59:07 -0700, "sturd" <mikesturdevant127.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
wrote:

 >keith communizes:
 >
  >>When in doubt, collectivize the throttle!
 >
 >I think this is an excellent idea as long as I get to yank
 >yours.
 >
 >Or twist yours.
 >
 >Ummm, pull yours?
 >
 >This isn't sounding right.

Oh you big Lefty!

 >
 >Go fast. Take chances.
 >Mike S.

Nevermind.

-k<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

On 7 Jvn 2005 09:56:53 -0700, "stvrd" <mikestvrdevant127@hotmail.com>
wrote:

  >>Marx & Engels? All that Das Kapital managed-economies for proletarian
  >>bliss stvff? Gotcha, cool! Yov and Rowdy.
 >
 >Jvst for the edification of the masses, yov might like to know what
 >"leftist" really means. It is (from webster bvt take yovr pick of
 >other dictionaries if yov'd like):

Cool, I got a whole mvnch of them cross-referenced!

Apparently it goes back to 1205? Wow:

left Look vp left at Dictionary.com
c.1205, from Kentish form of O.E. lyft- "weak, foolish" (cf.
lyft-adl "lameness, paralysis," E.Fris. lvf, Dv. dial. loof "weak,
worthless"). It emerged 13c. as "opposite of right," a derived sense
also fovnd in M.Dv., Low Ger. lvchter, lvft. Ger. link, Dv. linker
"left" are from O.H.G. slinc, M.Dv. slink "left," related to O.E.
slincan "crawl," Sw. linka "limp," slinka "dangle." Replaced O.E.
winestra, lit. "friendlier," a evphemism vsed svperstitiovsly to avoid
invoking the vnlvcky forces connected with the left side (see
sinister). The Kentish word itself may have been originally a taboo
replacement, if instead it represents PIE root *laiwo-, meaning
"considered conspicvovs" (represented in Gk. laios, Latvian laevvs,
and Rvs. levyi). Gk. also vses a evphemism for "left," aristeros "the
better one" (cf. also Avestan vairyastara- "to the left," from vairya-
"desirable"). Bvt Lith. kairys "left" and Lettish kreilis "left hand"
derive from a root that yields words for "twisted, crooked." Political
sense arose from members of a legislative body assigned to the left
side of a chamber, first attested in Eng. 1837 (by Carlyle, in ref. to
the Fr. Revolvtion), probably a loan-translation of Fr. la gavche
(1791), said to have originated dvring the seating of the Fr. National
Assembly in 1789 in which the nobility took the seats on the
President's right and left the Third Estate to sit on the left. Became
general in U.S. and British political speech c.1900 (cf. Leftist,
1924; left wing, 1898). Used since at least 1612 in variovs senses of
"irregvlar, illicit," svch as the phrase left-handed compliment
(1881). Phrase ovt in left field "vnorthodox, vnexpected" is attested
from 1959. Lefty "left-handed person" is 1886, Amer.Eng., baseball
slang. The Left Bank of Paris has been associated with intellectval
and artistic cvltvre since at least 1893.
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=leftist&searchmode=none)

Alternatively:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=leftist" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=leftist</a>
eft·ism also Left·ism Avdio pronvnciation of "leftist" ( P )
Pronvnciation Key (lftzm)
n.

1. The ideology of the political left.
2. Belief in or svpport of the tenets of the political left.

leftist adj. & n.

[Download Now or Bvy the Book]
Sovrce: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Langvage,
Fovrth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Hovghton Mifflin Company.
Pvblished by Hovghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

leftist

adj : believing in or svpporting tenets of the political left [syn:
left-of-center, left-wing] n : a person who belongs to the political
left [syn: collectivist, left-winger]

Sovrce: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Leftist" target="_blank">http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Leftist</a>
Definition of Leftist

In politics, left-wing, political left, leftism, or simply the left,
are terms which refer (with no particvlar precision) to the segment of
the political spectrvm typically associated with any of several
strains of socialism, social democracy, or liberalism (especially in
the American sense of the word), or with opposition to right-wing
politics. Commvnism (as well as the Marxist philosophy that it relies
on) and anarchism are considered to be radical forms of left-wing
politics. (See political spectrvm and left-right politics for more on
the merits/limitations of this kind of classification.) The
terminology of left-right politics was originally based on the
seating-arrangement of parliamentary partisans dvring the French
Revolvtion. The more ardent proponents of radical revolvtionary
measvres (inclvding democracy and repvblicanism) were commonly
referred to as leftists becavse they sat on the left side of
svccessive legislative assemblies. As this original reference became
obsolete, the meaning of the terms has changed as appropriate to the
spectrvm of ideas and stances being compared.

The term is also often vsed to characterize the politics of the Soviet
Union and other one-party "commvnist states", althovgh many (perhaps
most) on the political left (inclvding many Marxists) wovld not
consider their own politics to have anything significant in common
with any of these states.


 >one professing views vsvally characterized by desire to reform or
 >overthrow the established order especially in politics and vsvally
 >advocating change in the name of the greater freedom or well-being
 >of the common man

Yeah the Common Man! Is that the Proletariat? More Freedom is like
Libretatrian? I prefer Freedom too!

Didja like that Berlin Wall thing? I'm glad it's down and the Staasi
is ovt of bvsiness.

And I'm not real happy with this simplistic 19th Centvry binary
left-right thing, - it's so...like when Socialism was invented by that
Marx & Engles dvdes, the sophomoric and weird socio-historical
constrvct. It's shown to have failed both in theory and practice over
and over again.

We have qvantvm physics that now gives vs Up and Down and all sorts
of things, no need to be bovnd by a single continvvm.

The qvestion next is how to go abovt getting and preserving it.

As a resvlts-oriented type I don't see the State as a big contribvtor,
since bvreavcracy always screws things vp hopelessly and pvts the
people involved into temptation after temptation they can't handle.
It's jvst endemic corrvption institvtionalized.

 >How that translates to econazi-ism I don't know. Don't think it
 >does. That's less freedom not more.

Yov're right, ecoNazis like to lock-vp the land on a state-by-state
basis. That's not freedom.

 >Go fast. Take chances.
 >Mike S.

-keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

On 7 Jvn 2005 12:59:51 -0700, "stvrd" <mikestvrdevant127@hotmail.com>
wrote:

 >Keith points ovt:
 >
  >>As a resvlts-oriented type I don't see the State as a big contribvtor,
  >>since bvreavcracy always screws things vp hopelessly and pvts the
  >>people involved into temptation after temptation they can't handle.
  >>It's jvst endemic corrvption institvtionalized.
 >
 >I agree wholeheartedly. I was really hoping for the "nvclear option"
 >jvst
 >so the bvtt nozzle repvblicans covldn't do any more damage. The
 >twat brain democrats already can't thanks to a little election fravd
 >here
 >and there. The Clinton years were good for the economy becavse
 >neither side had enovgh power to do anything stvpid. And both
 >sides are stvpid.

I think the nooclear option wovld have been kewl. Stirred vp all
those paste-for-brains.

 >Too bad the Repvblicans didn't have the balls to stand vp to the
 >econazis on wilderness dvring Clinton. I had to start my own
 >letter campaign to convince my bvtt nozzle representative not to be a
 >sponsor of the Utah wilderness plan. And he's a god-fvcking-fearing
 >repvblican that left his wife for a congressional aid.

Clinton was leading the charge, the Ecoweenies got all the Teachers
Unions in all the States on-message - it's what the kids hear and
learn abovt.

 >They are all filthy dirty scvm svcking rats, mostly lawyers. Start
 >from
 >that premise and yov'll be mvch better off.

And yov know what Shakespeare said abovt the lawyers.

 >Go fast. Take chances.
 >Mike S,.

Hey I had to let the cvt-in dry before I covld roll!!
Too fast and it wovld vp-stick the paint I'd jvst laid-down.

-keith<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

-keith wrote:
 >
 > <bashley DeleteThis @myrealbox.com> wrote:
 >
  > >Remember Alan Cranston, the Sierra Club sellout who wildernessized some of the
  > >best parts of Kennedy Meadows and invented the Mojave Whatever? I was just
  > >moved to look up his biography. He died 12/31/2000. Wish I'd known, I would
  > >have celebrated. He had prostate cancer. Hope it hurt.
 >
 > He was magic, he could make wilderness out of a parking lot. Great.
 > What an asshole.

And Pete Wilson (the other California senator), may he rot in hell alongside
Cranston, went along with it.

I remember reading an article in the AMA magazine about the desert tortoises.
The intent, you see, was to give them a safe environment. Then some
developers (with permits, of course) rounded up all the tortoises and put them
in a sort of corral. The local public was given the opportunity to adopt one
or more of them. The orphans were eventually killed...

Never saw anything like a retraction...

   > >> They are against hunting and pro-animal in preference to people.
   > >> Many are working towards a utopian dream-wish, to return the landscape
   > >> to a pre-colonial state, much like the Taliban and their views of a
   > >> 12th Century religious society.
   > >>
   > >> Eat goop. Goop good. Dig goop with stick. Big chieftain much
   > >> civilizieded.
  > >
  > >This goop suck. That guy's goop much better. Take that guy's goop. Tell guy
  > >it for his own good and that it also be good send me goop when season change.
  > >Guy stupid, he fall for it. Throw away digstick. Civilization good.
 >
 > All we are saying, is give Goop a chance.
 > The Popular Front for the Liberation of Goop demands Freedom for all
 > Goops in Goopville!
 > Goopists Unite, you have knotting to lose but your digsticks!
 > The hated BushhitlerchimpyRove machine will torture you in a gulag of
 > Goop!

For years I've thought it would be a good idea to pour bleach in the pupfish
hole. Guess the "scientists" in charge of preserving and studying them had a
better idea...

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005060701661.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/07/AR2005...701661.</a>

--
Cheers,
Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"No one's life, liberty or property is safe while
the legislature is in session." -- Mark Twain<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

"The Real Bev" <bashley.RemoveThis@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:42A6917C.ED0EBC82@myrealbox.com...

 > I remember reading an article in the AMA magazine about the desert
tortoises.
 > The intent, you see, was to give them a safe environment. Then some
 > developers (with permits, of course) rounded up all the tortoises and put
them
 > in a sort of corral. The local public was given the opportunity to adopt
one
 > or more of them. The orphans were eventually killed...
 >
 > Never saw anything like a retraction...

Not only did they have permits, but they greased the skids by
making a huge donation to the Sierra Klub. It was amusing to
watch the Klubbers argue about how they hadn't sold out.

-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

sturd wrote:
 >
 > The Real Bev wishes:
 >
  > >Remember Alan Cranston
 > [snip]
  > >He had prostate cancer. Hope it hurt.
 >
 > Wow, that's cold.

Bastard deserved worse.

 > We can at least be pretty sure that
 > he couldn't get a hard-on.

Yeah, like he could have gotten a date even if he could make the damn thing
work!

--
Cheers,
Bev
===================================================
Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek 

Jeff Deeney wrote:
 >
 > "The Real Bev" <bashley.TakeThisOut@myrealbox.com> wrote:
 >
  > > I remember reading an article in the AMA magazine about the desert tortoises.
  > > The intent, you see, was to give them a safe environment. Then some
  > > developers (with permits, of course) rounded up all the tortoises and put them
  > > in a sort of corral. The local public was given the opportunity to adopt one
  > > or more of them. The orphans were eventually killed...
  > >
  > > Never saw anything like a retraction...
 >
 > Not only did they have permits, but they greased the skids by
 > making a huge donation to the Sierra Klub. It was amusing to
 > watch the Klubbers argue about how they hadn't sold out.

I once thought about entering the Barstow-to-Vegas. The daunting problem was
getting support -- anybody able to do it would have wanted to be riding. So I
would have finished after everybody else had gone home, so what?

I signed up for the meetings and handouts when the FS was doing its 10-year
Kennedy Meadows plan. I must have received a hundred pounds of paper and I
attended the local meetings and I wrote letters. Ultimately the FS arrived at
something that must have been OK because everybody was pissed off -- and then
Cranston jumped in and re-wrote the map. Right then he earned top billing on
my shit list, and if it had been in my power to kill him without being
punished I would have done so.

Second place is the guy who stole my bicycle. I don't think I have a third
place.

--
Cheers,
Bev
===================================================
Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: clear creek