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External
Since: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 918
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:18 am
Post subject: T-bone, video, etc
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:15 am
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<.p.jm DeleteThis @see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:o4tkr3d506e0e13hr0ngndo94fbadlqcc7@4ax.com...
>
> http://www.local6.com/news/15335634/detail.html
>
> TITUSVILLE, Fla. -- Police in Titusville, Fla., are searching for a
> hit-and-run driver who T-boned a motorcycle rider, launching the
> driver 30 feet into the air and nearly killing him.
The video was awful.
My only reaction is that some of the statements against the driver of the
vehicle aren't rational.
Yes, he struck a motorcycle and yes, it could have been somebody's family.
But given the fact that masive quantities of drugs were apparently in the
car, fleeing was understandable. It is unrealistic to expect someone
running drugs to stop for the police. Not that that is right (because it
isn't), but that is the human reality.
I don't think that he wanted to hurt anybody. He just wanted not to go to
jail.
Also, the driver fleeing the scene doesn't imply a lack of concern for the
motorcycle rider. Since there was a police officer that witnessed it, the
rider was going to get prompt attention. There is nothing additional
helpful the car driver could have done by stopping.
Lack of concern would be when you hit a rider in the middle of the night in
a remote area and don't help.
Realistically, if they want to stop this kind of thing from happening, the
only way to do it is to change the payoff matrix for the criminal so that he
doesn't have incentive to flee. Since at the time a traffic stop starts it
is hard to get away, the right approach would be to have a policy that if
you voluntarily stop while running drugs, the drugs get confiscated but
there will be no criminal charges (that is even better than the average
outcome if one fails to stop).
Naturally, this is felonious behavior by the driver, but the accident was
caused by a larger set of circumstances.
Expecting someone running drugs to stop for the police is very unrealistic. |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 202
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:51 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 19, 12:15 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....DeleteThis@e3ft.com>
SNIP
To your previous statements...
You are acting like some moron cager..you know an IDIOT.
> Naturally, this is felonious behavior by the driver, but the accident was
> caused by a larger set of circumstances.
Excuses, excuses...
> Expecting someone running drugs to stop for the police is very unrealistic..
Maybe but one can hope.
For morons like you I've no hope and little pity.
--
Keith S >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 25
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David T. Ashley" <dta.RemoveThis@e3ft.com> wrote in message
news:a8udnRWN750CHyfanZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@giganews.com...
> <.p.jm.RemoveThis@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:o4tkr3d506e0e13hr0ngndo94fbadlqcc7@4ax.com...
>>
>> http://www.local6.com/news/15335634/detail.html
>>
>> TITUSVILLE, Fla. -- Police in Titusville, Fla., are searching for a
>> hit-and-run driver who T-boned a motorcycle rider, launching the
>> driver 30 feet into the air and nearly killing him.
>
> The video was awful.
>
> My only reaction is that some of the statements against the driver of the
> vehicle aren't rational.
>
> Yes, he struck a motorcycle and yes, it could have been somebody's family.
> But given the fact that masive quantities of drugs were apparently in the
> car, fleeing was understandable. It is unrealistic to expect someone
> running drugs to stop for the police. Not that that is right (because it
> isn't), but that is the human reality.
>
> I don't think that he wanted to hurt anybody. He just wanted not to go to
> jail.
It does not matter if he wanted to hurt somebody, or not.
He showed zero concern or caring by his actions of running. The only thing
he cared about was not going to jail.
>
> Also, the driver fleeing the scene doesn't imply a lack of concern for the
> motorcycle rider.
It most certainly implies a total lack of concern on his part. It does not
matter who else is at the scene of the wreck. By running, he show a total
lack of concern. or remorse.
Since there was a police officer that witnessed it, the
> rider was going to get prompt attention. There is nothing additional
> helpful the car driver could have done by stopping.
>
> Lack of concern would be when you hit a rider in the middle of the night
> in a remote area and don't help.
>
> Realistically, if they want to stop this kind of thing from happening, the
> only way to do it is to change the payoff matrix for the criminal so that
> he doesn't have incentive to flee. Since at the time a traffic stop
> starts it is hard to get away, the right approach would be to have a
> policy that if you voluntarily stop while running drugs, the drugs get
> confiscated but there will be no criminal charges (that is even better
> than the average outcome if one fails to stop).
That statement has now taken the #1 slot on my list of the most moronic and
stupid things I have read on this newsgroup.
>
> Naturally, this is felonious behavior by the driver, but the accident was
> caused by a larger set of circumstances.
The accident was caused by someone committing multipule felonies and for no
other reason.
>
> Expecting someone running drugs to stop for the police is very
> unrealistic. >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"laughing man" <schistan.TakeThisOut@q.com> wrote in message
news:57140139-1d8e-4d44-85c4-babe04a904b6@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....TakeThisOut@e3ft.com> wrote:
> "D" <d....TakeThisOut@d.DDD> wrote in
> messagenews:iHAuj.12971$497.11778@newsfe14.phx...
>
>> In general, somebody doing something illegal ain't gonna stop.
>
>So? Run them to ground... That's EXACTLY how you deal with a criminal.
You folks are contradicting yourself. On one hand you claim that the
accident involving the biker was a tragedy, but yet you are advocating a
mindset that leads to unnecessary death from police chases.
Run them to the ground?
But at what cost to society? How many innocent people is that going to
cripple and kill?
Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer mom and
her children? >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 25
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David T. Ashley" <dta.DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote in message
news:IrCdnelADqCNNCbanZ2dnUVZ_oSunZ2d@giganews.com...
> "laughing man" <schistan.DeleteThis@q.com> wrote in message
> news:57140139-1d8e-4d44-85c4-babe04a904b6@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote:
>> "D" <d....DeleteThis@d.DDD> wrote in
>> messagenews:iHAuj.12971$497.11778@newsfe14.phx...
>>
>>> In general, somebody doing something illegal ain't gonna stop.
>>
>>So? Run them to ground... That's EXACTLY how you deal with a criminal.
>
> You folks are contradicting yourself. On one hand you claim that the
> accident involving the biker was a tragedy, but yet you are advocating a
> mindset that leads to unnecessary death from police chases.
>
> Run them to the ground?
>
> But at what cost to society? How many innocent people is that going to
> cripple and kill?
>
> Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer mom
> and her children?
So, let me get this correct. I get caught transporting drugs, which is a
felony. But, because I stopped and turned them over to you, the police, I
get a free pass and get to go and transport more illegal drugs. So, if I
robbed someone or raped someone or murdered someone, pulled over and stopped
to avoid a high speed chase, I get a free ride??
I don't think so.
> >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 659
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:35 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David T. Ashley wrote:
> "laughing man" <schistan.DeleteThis@q.com> wrote in message
> news:57140139-1d8e-4d44-85c4-babe04a904b6@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote:
>> "D" <d....DeleteThis@d.DDD> wrote in
>> messagenews:iHAuj.12971$497.11778@newsfe14.phx...
>>
>>> In general, somebody doing something illegal ain't gonna stop.
>>
>> So? Run them to ground... That's EXACTLY how you deal with a
>> criminal.
>
> You folks are contradicting yourself. On one hand you claim that
> the
> accident involving the biker was a tragedy, but yet you are
> advocating a mindset that leads to unnecessary death from police
> chases.
>
> Run them to the ground?
>
> But at what cost to society? How many innocent people is that going
> to cripple and kill?
>
> Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer
> mom and her children?
Two words: "Blue Thunder" <eg>
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David White" <wlightning.RemoveThis@att.net> wrote in message
news:N6Ouj.5342$Mw.2568@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> Realistically, if they want to stop this kind of thing from happening,
>> the only way to do it is to change the payoff matrix for the criminal so
>> that he doesn't have incentive to flee. Since at the time a traffic stop
>> starts it is hard to get away, the right approach would be to have a
>> policy that if you voluntarily stop while running drugs, the drugs get
>> confiscated but there will be no criminal charges (that is even better
>> than the average outcome if one fails to stop).
>
> That statement has now taken the #1 slot on my list of the most moronic
> and stupid things I have read on this newsgroup.
Could you make a better suggestion that would have prevented this particular
situation?
The individual involved is going to do what gives him the best average
payoff. If somebody is doing something _seriously_ wrong, they are going to
flee because if they get voluntarily stopped they have a 95% chance of going
to prison for 20 years for trafficing, but if they flee they might have a
10% chance of staying out of jail for another day.
It seems to me that the only ways to prevent this would have been to:
a)Already have the individual in custody (i.e. maybe he should have been in
jail already).
b)Have some technology to immediately immobilize cars.
c)Change the payoff so that the criminal has more to lose by fleeing than by
surrendering.
(c) seems to be the only one that is practical at this time.
How else would you have prevented the tragedy shown on the video? >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 182
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David White" <wlightning.DeleteThis@att.net> wrote in message
news:nqOuj.5345$Mw.1089@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
>> Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer mom
>> and her children?
>
> So, let me get this correct. I get caught transporting drugs, which is a
> felony. But, because I stopped and turned them over to you, the police, I
> get a free pass and get to go and transport more illegal drugs. So, if I
> robbed someone or raped someone or murdered someone, pulled over and
> stopped to avoid a high speed chase, I get a free ride??
>
> I don't think so.
You are right.
When I saw the video, they mentioned that the person had a car full of
drugs. My idea was that if the cops keep the drugs but don't criminally
prosecute the driver, his payoff on average would be better if he stopped
than if he ran.
However, you are right ... with murder and so on I can't think of a
practical way to adjust the payoff so that the person would be punished
fairly for what they've done but would still be willing to stop.
OK, OK, it was a dumb thought. I admit it. >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Dec 27, 2003
Posts: 1218
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:30 am
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<.p.jm.TakeThisOut@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:o4tkr3d506e0e13hr0ngndo94fbadlqcc7@4ax.com...
>
> http://www.local6.com/news/15335634/detail.html
>
> TITUSVILLE, Fla. -- Police in Titusville, Fla., are searching for a
> hit-and-run driver who T-boned a motorcycle rider, launching the
> driver 30 feet into the air and nearly killing him.
>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
I'm curious. Why didn't the police go after the perp at the time of the
accident?
Thumper >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Feb 06, 2008
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 21, 10:30 am, "Thumper" <roadap....DeleteThis@unclewebster.com> wrote:
> I'm curious. Why didn't the police go after the perp at the time of the
> accident?
Probably stopped to render aid to the rider until an ambulance came. I
would be surprised if they were not bound by policy to do so.
-hank >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 38
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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laughing man wrote:
> On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d... RemoveThis @e3ft.com> wrote:
>> Even the police realize that chases are a losing game.
> Not really, chase them hard enough they do something dumb enough to
> wreck. Saves the police alot of work subduing the criminal. What part
So, do you think the perp is always the only person
injured or killed as a result of police chases, or
do you think it's okay if you and your dog get splattered
all over the road to prevent a bag of reefer from being
sold and smoked?
http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.911truth.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html
On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm
Ever wonder who benefits from the 700 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21
"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron... >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 202
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:09 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 19, 9:11 pm, "David T. Ashley" <d....DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote:
> "laughing man" <schis....DeleteThis@q.com> wrote in message
>
> news:57140139-1d8e-4d44-85c4-babe04a904b6@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....DeleteThis@e3ft.com> wrote:
> > "D" <d....DeleteThis@d.DDD> wrote in
> > messagenews:iHAuj.12971$497.11778@newsfe14.phx...
>
> >> In general, somebody doing something illegal ain't gonna stop.
>
> >So? Run them to ground... That's EXACTLY how you deal with a criminal.
>
> You folks are contradicting yourself. On one hand you claim that the
> accident involving the biker was a tragedy, but yet you are advocating a
> mindset that leads to unnecessary death from police chases.
>
> Run them to the ground?
>
> But at what cost to society? How many innocent people is that going to
> cripple and kill?
>
> Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer mom and
> her children?
I am not and you have NO reading comprehension skills, so do be a good
sheep and leave. >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 202
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: T-bone, video, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 19, 9:35 pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use....TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote:
> David T. Ashley wrote:
> > "laughing man" <schis....TakeThisOut@q.com> wrote in message
> >news:57140139-1d8e-4d44-85c4-babe04a904b6@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Feb 19, 7:58 am, "David T. Ashley" <d....TakeThisOut@e3ft.com> wrote:
> >> "D" <d....TakeThisOut@d.DDD> wrote in
> >> messagenews:iHAuj.12971$497.11778@newsfe14.phx...
>
> >>> In general, somebody doing something illegal ain't gonna stop.
>
> >> So? Run them to ground... That's EXACTLY how you deal with a
> >> criminal.
>
> > You folks are contradicting yourself. On one hand you claim that
> > the
> > accident involving the biker was a tragedy, but yet you are
> > advocating a mindset that leads to unnecessary death from police
> > chases.
>
> > Run them to the ground?
>
> > But at what cost to society? How many innocent people is that going
> > to cripple and kill?
>
> > Is a car full of drugs worth injuring or killing a biker or a soccer
> > mom and her children?
>
> Two words: "Blue Thunder" <eg>
>
> --
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nope no weapons of oppresion for you liberconseatarians. I oppose such
things violently...preferable by means of rabid lawyers. >> Stay informed about: T-bone, video, etc |
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