The back brake

Rope wrote:
> Platypus spoke:
>>> Oh, you got your license in Greece too?
>>
>> 7/6 from the Post Office.
>
> Have I ever said that my first provisional license number
> was license # 1?

Not so far as I am aware. You must be very old.
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:41:54 -0000, "Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot"
<eastREMOVEkent.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I lost as I went around the track the fastest, I'm still
>> confused about this being a good or bad thing. Other highlights were
>> a bloke stalling his new Pan Euro, dropping it and smashing the mirror
>> off and leaving some beautiful scratches in his new paintwork and
>> panniers.
>
>Did he cry immediately or put on a brave face and cry later?

There were five or six of us sitting on our bikes in the sun at the
finish line watching him at the other end of the area. We were
terribly British and nattered about it until the IAM asked him to
carry on to the finish line and when he got close to us we all stopped
and didn't mention it until he went away again.
--
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-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

"Ace" <seesig DeleteThis @ifrance.com> wrote
>"Geo" <gRkEaMpOnVaEsCAPS DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>"Champ" <news DeleteThis @champ.org.uk> wrote
>>> "Slower Than You" <no.way@jose> wrote:
>>
>>>>It must be a long time since you passed your test - that is all taught
>>>>as part of the CBT and DAS training now for U-turns.
>>>
>>> "taught"? What is this "taught" of which you speak?
>>
>>Oh, you got your license in Greece too?
>
> Heh. Some of us can remember when the UK was just as bad... or good,
> depending on your perspective.

I could write a lot about how ridiculous it used to be (all you had to do
was pass a silly theory test, then perform two"eights" around some dots
without putting your foot down or going too wide and presto, no mandatory
tutoring or anything), or how you could have had a license delivered to your
door with a pizza and a couple of beers for the right price. It's still not
a very good system, not so much for lack of rules (which improved but are
still lacking), but because they're not being implemented.

I'm glad I got my license easily and without too much cost, but I know it's
wrong and the amount of riding (and driving...) idiots I encounter every day
confirms it. I had three hours' worth of actual riding and no theoretical
grounding other than having a look at the book with the multiple choice
questions and their answers the night before the additional theory test
(which took me 3 minutes to complete). Granted, I had passed the main theory
test with my driver's license and had plenty of experience on a moped so I
could ride reasonably well,but it was not done the way it's supposed to.

The moped candidates were worse; half of them failed the parcours and the
bored traffic-warden-whatever responsible for their evaluation (unlike big
bikes where you get "real" examiners) just said "I've never failed anyone in
ten years, you kids just do a couple more runs to get the hang of it" and
left.


Geo
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

"platypus" <monotreme.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
> Geo wrote:
>> "Champ" <news.DeleteThis@champ.org.uk> wrote
>>> "Slower Than You" <no.way@jose> wrote:
>>
>>>> It must be a long time since you passed your test - that is all
>>>> taught as part of the CBT and DAS training now for U-turns.
>>>
>>> "taught"? What is this "taught" of which you speak?
>>
>>
>> Oh, you got your license in Greece too?
>
> 7/6 from the Post Office.

I'm unfamiliar with that system (mainly due to not being British and
possibly also due to not being old enough), but I think I get the point. We
could still achieve that level of ease of acquisition until a few years ago,
but it involved bribing.


Geo
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:10:29 +0200, "Geo"
<gRkEaMpOnVaEsCAPS DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>The moped candidates were worse; half of them failed the parcours and the
>bored traffic-warden-whatever responsible for their evaluation (unlike big
>bikes where you get "real" examiners) just said "I've never failed anyone in
>ten years, you kids just do a couple more runs to get the hang of it" and
>left.

I suppose it depends on the riding school. The one I went to, Channel
Rider Training, has a good rep. They're certainly not the cheapest
but they were worth the money.

A colleage did her CBT there but "didn't reach the required standard"
so went back for an hour or two of one-on-one later in the week and
she got her certificate.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney DeleteThis @spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

Geo wrote:
> "platypus" <monotreme.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
>> Geo wrote:
>>> "Champ" <news.DeleteThis@champ.org.uk> wrote
>>>> "Slower Than You" <no.way@jose> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It must be a long time since you passed your test - that is all
>>>>> taught as part of the CBT and DAS training now for U-turns.
>>>>
>>>> "taught"? What is this "taught" of which you speak?
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, you got your license in Greece too?
>>
>> 7/6 from the Post Office.
>
> I'm unfamiliar with that system (mainly due to not being British and
> possibly also due to not being old enough), but I think I get the
> point. We could still achieve that level of ease of acquisition until
> a few years ago, but it involved bribing.

Actually, driving tests were intoduced in the UK in 1934, suspended during
WWII, and then suspended again in the year I was born.
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

BGN wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:41:54 -0000, "Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot"
> <eastREMOVEkent RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I lost as I went around the track the fastest, I'm still
>>> confused about this being a good or bad thing. Other highlights
>>> were a bloke stalling his new Pan Euro, dropping it and smashing
>>> the mirror off and leaving some beautiful scratches in his new
>>> paintwork and panniers.
>>
>> Did he cry immediately or put on a brave face and cry later?
>
> There were five or six of us sitting on our bikes in the sun at the
> finish line watching him at the other end of the area. We were
> terribly British and nattered about it until the IAM asked him to
> carry on to the finish line and when he got close to us we all stopped
> and didn't mention it until he went away again.

<Nods>

Best way. Saves embarrassment. Stiff and upper etc.

--
Si - XV535
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:23:34 +0000, in
<crqrr3pventebt6l7ip9a0sngfhglkuph7 DeleteThis @4ax.com>, BGN
<nickmooney DeleteThis @spamcop.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:10:29 +0200, "Geo"
><gRkEaMpOnVaEsCAPS DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The moped candidates were worse; half of them failed the parcours and the
>>bored traffic-warden-whatever responsible for their evaluation (unlike big
>>bikes where you get "real" examiners) just said "I've never failed anyone in
>>ten years, you kids just do a couple more runs to get the hang of it" and
>>left.
>
>I suppose it depends on the riding school.

It depends on the country. Re-read Geo's comments for context.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:10:29 +0200, in
<fpkpfj$m69$1@volcano1.grnet.gr>, "Geo" <gRkEaMpOnVaEsCAPS DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>"Ace" <seesig DeleteThis @ifrance.com> wrote
>>"Geo" <gRkEaMpOnVaEsCAPS DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>"Champ" <news DeleteThis @champ.org.uk> wrote
>>>> "Slower Than You" <no.way@jose> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>It must be a long time since you passed your test - that is all taught
>>>>>as part of the CBT and DAS training now for U-turns.
>>>>
>>>> "taught"? What is this "taught" of which you speak?
>>>
>>>Oh, you got your license in Greece too?
>>
>> Heh. Some of us can remember when the UK was just as bad... or good,
>> depending on your perspective.
>
>I could write a lot about how ridiculous it used to be (all you had to do
>was pass a silly theory test, then perform two"eights" around some dots
>without putting your foot down or going too wide and presto, no mandatory
>tutoring or anything)

Well back in t'old days in the UK (did mine in 1978, but I think it
was unchanged until the early 80s) we had no theory test at all, no
off-road manouevers, and just a couple of highway code questions,
which weren't even specifically bike-related. The practical part
consisted of driving round a block two or three times with the
examiner standing around somewhere (like in the nearest cafe)
watching, then one round when he'd step out for you to do an emergency
stop. From about 50m away, just in case he had to jump back out of
your way.

So I spit on your theory test and 'no putting your foot down' we had
it easy.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:00:27 +0000, "Slower Than You" <no.way@jose>
squeezed out the following:

>I don't claim to understand the physics of it, but if you keep the revs
>fairly high and constant and use the back brake almost like an
>upside-down accellerator pedal (press harder to go slower) then, when
>you get it right, it feels like you are "fooling" the bike into
>thinking it's going faster than it actually is.
>
>I'm sure it can all be explained scientifically. Not by me though.

The received wisdom is it's at least partly due to the gyroscopic
effect of the flywheel. I really CBA to do the maths to see if that is
indeed the case.

--
Colin Irvine
YZF1000R BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
http://www.colinandpat.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

Colin Irvine <Colin.Irvine.TakeThisOut@seebottomof.home.page> wrote in
news:t72tr35r8oldooh1076t4q3vedp51g09n9@4ax.com:

>>I don't claim to understand the physics of it, but if you keep the revs
>>fairly high and constant and use the back brake almost like an
>>upside-down accellerator pedal (press harder to go slower) then, when
>>you get it right, it feels like you are "fooling" the bike into
>>thinking it's going faster than it actually is.

> The received wisdom is it's at least partly due to the gyroscopic
> effect of the flywheel. I really CBA to do the maths to see if that is
> indeed the case.

I'd be interested to know, if anyone can do the maths. I honestly can't
detect any effect on my bike, and I'd like to think it's because it doesn't
have anything rotating in that direction, rather than because I'm useless.

--
Jeremy
R1200RT
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

Jérémy wrote:
> Colin Irvine <Colin.Irvine DeleteThis @seebottomof.home.page> wrote in
> news:t72tr35r8oldooh1076t4q3vedp51g09n9@4ax.com:
>
>>> I don't claim to understand the physics of it, but if you keep the revs
>>> fairly high and constant and use the back brake almost like an
>>> upside-down accellerator pedal (press harder to go slower) then, when
>>> you get it right, it feels like you are "fooling" the bike into
>>> thinking it's going faster than it actually is.
>
>> The received wisdom is it's at least partly due to the gyroscopic
>> effect of the flywheel. I really CBA to do the maths to see if that is
>> indeed the case.
>
> I'd be interested to know, if anyone can do the maths. I honestly can't
> detect any effect on my bike, and I'd like to think it's because it doesn't
> have anything rotating in that direction, rather than because I'm useless.

A though experiment tells me a FOAD flywheel on a transverse
crank bike would indeed make a huge difference in low speed
riding, whereas on a longitudinal crank engine the bike
would fall over just as easily but wouldn't yaw or pitch as
much.

--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake 

Ace wrote:

>
> Well back in t'old days in the UK (did mine in 1978, but I think it
> was unchanged until the early 80s) we had no theory test at all, no
> off-road manouevers, and just a couple of highway code questions,
> which weren't even specifically bike-related. The practical part
> consisted of driving round a block two or three times with the
> examiner standing around somewhere (like in the nearest cafe)
> watching, then one round when he'd step out for you to do an emergency
> stop. From about 50m away, just in case he had to jump back out of
> your way.
>

AOL, did mine on Honda SS90 in 1970 at the age of
sixteen-and-a-couple-of-months. If I'd been able to afford it, I could
then have swapped straight onto a 650 (those being the biggest commonly
available then). Seem to remember I had to drive along at walking pace
behind him for a few yards too? And didn't we have to do both left- and
right-hand circuits round the block?
 >> Stay informed about: The back brake