average speed cameras in UK

bikerbetty wrote:
> "Damien" <al.qaeda.DeleteThis@asio.gov.au> wrote in message
> news:fll9jt$5kf$1@aioe.org...
>> the big dog wrote:
>>
>>> Any assurances that I must simply "get used to it" is a waste of
>>> electrons, so I hope your electrons were recycled
>> I just hope you realise that obsessive paranoia is not exactly a very
>> healthy state of mind. But if you're happy with that, then I suppose
>> that's just fine.
>
> I wouldn't have thought it was obsessive paranoia to show concern that a
> government might abuse its power.. Crkey, when "nice conservative" Johnny
> controlled both houses his megalomania started peeking through, and all he
> had to say to justify his excesses was "we have a mandate".
>
> I think it's healthy to show some caution (and suspicion) regarding
> governments and the erosion of our freedoms. It's "ostrich-ism" to blithely
> assume that any goverment "knows best" and give it a free hand to do
> whatever it wants.
>
> "Obsessive paranoia" is that MI5 persecution bloke who posts a bazillion
> times a day...
>
> betty
>
>

No, I described it appropriately the first time, I think.

The problem is that these people are all acting on the assumption that
the surveillance etc in question is all part of an orchestrated and
deliberate campaign to subjugate individuality and destroy our freedoms
out of no better motivation than malice.

Sorry, but that's not truth, that's obsessive paranoia. The truth is
that while some people may feel as though our liberties are being eroded
(and I agree with them on this point, as it so happens), such outcomes
are in fact the unfortunate result of an accumulation of much smaller
local decisions that in almost every case were in fact made in good
faith with the best of intentions. It is only when you take a step back
and view the big picture that the true impact becomes apparent.

If people could step out of fantasy land and back into reality, and stop
seeing deliberate malice where none exists, then they'd have a much
better chance of having people actually listen to their concerns and act
to do something about them. As it is, they do just come across as simply
being the sufferers of paranoid delusions, and consequently doors that
might have opened to a more rational approach are instead slammed shut
in their faces - which of course just reinforces their delusions.

I'm not saying there is no problem. I'm just saying that those who are
presently reacting against this problem are in fact the biggest part of
the problem themselves. Before they can hope to fix Big Brother, they
first need to fix themselves, or they'll just get nowhere very fast.

If they want, they can just attack me in response and ignore what I've
said. Or they can look past their egos and give my points honest and due
consideration, and act accordingly. The choice is theirs, and will be
determined based on whether they actually want a solution, or whether
they just want something to be able to complain about.
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

the big dog wrote:
> On Jan 4, 11:40 pm, Damien <al.qa....DeleteThis@asio.gov.au> wrote:
>> the big dog wrote:
>>> Any assurances that I must simply "get used to it" is a waste of
>>> electrons, so I hope your electrons were recycled
>> I just hope you realise that obsessive paranoia is not exactly a very
>> healthy state of mind. But if you're happy with that, then I suppose
>> that's just fine.
>
> There is nothing even remotely paranoid about being concerned about
> the potential for abuses created by government use of information
> gathering technologies. Your attitude that voters in a democratic
> form of government must simply resign themselves to the idea that the
> government that they control will do whatever it pleases regardless of
> their desires is not only irrational, it is profoundly irresponsible.

No, there is nothing paranoid about being concerned. But their is
something paranoid about being so obsessed that you start to imagine
motivations and agendas that simply don't exist. You seem to be more
willing to put fictional words into my mouth than to stop and consider
what I'm actually saying. I never said there is no problem, or no need
for action - what I did say is that the words and actions that I've seen
from most people in this thread thus far stem not from rationality and
reason, but from delusional paranoia. Until they realise this, and start
to introduce some reality to their campaign and concerns, no one who
matters is ever going to listen to them, and the problem will just get
worse - and is that *really* what you want to happen???
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

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 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

Simple question: do you want to change these perceived injustices, or not?

If no, then by all means continue to speak and act as so many others
have done in this thread. The government and everyone else will then
continue to dismiss you all as paranoid crackpots who are just
malcontents without any good reason to be heard. Of course, this also
means the problems will just get worse.

If yes, then you need to realise that continuing to attribute deliberate
malice to government surveillance activities is harming your cause
immeasurably. If you want change, then you need people to listen to you
in the first place, and to achieve that you need to come across as
rational and reasonable people with solid evidence to support your case.
Continuing to indulge in unsubstantiated and unreasonable hyperbole does
not help the cause one little bit.

As I said to Betty, you can shoot the messenger if you prefer, but at
the end of the day that still leaves you with a problem that will only
continue to worsen. Is that really what you want? Grumblings of
discontent are one thing, they need to be based on reality, not fantasy,
if they are to lead to anything other than ridicule.
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

You're obviously happier being a deluded fool than a rational person, so
maybe I should just leave you to your fantasies, and return to the real
world myself? Keep in mind that I'm not simply responding to you alone,
but to all the paranoid delusional consiracy freaks who think the
government is out to get us all. If that's the sort of world view that
keeps you happy, then you're welcome to it.
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

the big dog wrote:

> Your attitude that voters in a democratic
> form of government must simply resign themselves to the idea that the
> government that they control will do whatever it pleases regardless of
> their desires is not only irrational, it is profoundly irresponsible.


Oh, so what do you see happening?

You supported the GST, War...and all the other good, right and mandated
stuff you got in the last few years
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

lemmiwinks.au.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:

> I've got a
> bridge I'd like to sell that crowd.

Have you ever had it valued?
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

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 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

the big dog wrote:

> I challenge thee to a quote.
>
>

Here's a few quotes for you then:

2/1/08 10:03 PM - your deluded ramblings that use of speed cameras
somehow deprives innocent people of their privacy.

3/1/08 6:12 PM - more of your deluded ramblings that the government has
no right to collect the details of motorists passing speed cameras.

3/1/08 6:38 PM - and yet more of your deluded ramblings challenging the
right of government agencies to perform their lawful duties.

That's some pretty solid evidence of your paranoid delusions, even more
so when it is pointed out that your criticisms over surveillance of
motorists is entirely limited to government activities. But what about
private companies that do the same, or more? If you've ever been
anywhere near a Sydney motorway, then you've also been under a far
higher degree of surveillance than from any government camera anywhere
else. Yet where is your concern and criticism about these actions
performed by completely unaccountable private organisations? At least
the government is accountable to the people, but who are these companies
accountable to? If you truly had concerns about privacy, then your
concerns would be universal - yet I don't think I've seen even a single
word of criticism for private collectors of personal data, perhaps
because you've been so obsessed with your biased and uninformed crusade
against 'the government' instead.
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

I think you need to adjust your tin-foil hat.
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

Boxer wrote:

> What have you really got to hide, if anyone wants to know where I am all
> they have to do is call my mobile and I will tell them, paranoia seems to be
> the flavour of the month on this forum.

"I may be paranoid, but that doesn't mean they aren't out to get me"
(Kurt Cobain)
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

BT Humble wrote:
> Damien wrote:
>> Boxer wrote:
>>> What have you really got to hide, if anyone wants to know where I am all
>>> they have to do is call my mobile and I will tell them, paranoia seems to be
>>> the flavour of the month on this forum.
>> It certainly does! I've got a good supply of tin-foil hats, going cheap.
>
> Pfft! As if the government would let you buy *REAL* tin-foil these
> days!
>
>
> BTH

Well, the man at the shop said it was tin-foil, and showed me the
government seal that proves it. Are you telling me that I can't believe
the government now?
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK 

Children overboard ! Iraq !

Believe them all you want..

Damien wrote:
> BT Humble wrote:
>> Damien wrote:
>>> Boxer wrote:
>>>> What have you really got to hide, if anyone wants to know where I am
>>>> all
>>>> they have to do is call my mobile and I will tell them, paranoia
>>>> seems to be
>>>> the flavour of the month on this forum.
>>> It certainly does! I've got a good supply of tin-foil hats, going cheap.
>>
>> Pfft! As if the government would let you buy *REAL* tin-foil these
>> days!
>>
>>
>> BTH
>
> Well, the man at the shop said it was tin-foil, and showed me the
> government seal that proves it. Are you telling me that I can't believe
> the government now?
 >> Stay informed about: average speed cameras in UK