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XJ750 Pilot Mixture Adjustment

 
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stageleft




Joined: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:12 pm
Post subject: XJ750 Pilot Mixture Adjustment

I've recently bought an 83 XJ750 and am having considerable difficulity with carb adjustments - specifically 1 & 4 are doing fine, 2 & 3 are running rich.

I've had the carbs cleaned, replaced the needles and jets, had the carbs sync'd (vacum tube) twice, checked all the rubber boots for cracks, have made multiple float level adjustments and checked the levels against with what the manual says they should read on a tube, and while each adjustment nets some little bit of improvement I am quickly coming to the conclusion that the previous owner may have tinkered with the pilot mixture adjustment screws.

Unfortunately the Haynes manual says little more than "these are pre-set" and "do not touch", and dealers mutter archane words about horrible and dire consequences when asked. I would like to know what the factory pre-set is so I can check to see if that is what they are set to but this information seems to have a higher classification than most mortal riders can hope to attain, even Mr. Google has been of no help to me.

I have considered checking where 1 and/or 4 are set and seeing if 2 & 3 are at least in the general neighbourhood - is this a workable plan?

Does anyone know what the factory pre-set is?

Thanks

M

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krusty kritter

External


Since: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 253



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: XJ750 Pilot Mixture Adjustment [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

stageleft wrote:

> Does anyone know what the factory pre-set is?

No, even the factory doesn't know that information. The carbs may be
individually set on a single cylinder test engine, or they may be set
on a 4-cylinder test engine with a 4-into-1 exhaust system and an
exhaust gas analyzer.

That would explain why the pilot mixture screws on my FZR-1000 were set
at
0.12, 0.30. 0.40. and 2.5 turns out. If an exhaust gas analyzer is used
to test the emissions of an engine with multiple carburetors and a
common exhaust pipe, the best it can do is measure an AVERAGE of the
four idle mixtures.

But, you want a starting point, and you figure that the starting point
is to make all the pilot mixture screw settings the same. That's an
excellent strategy. You have a set of precision made carbs and they
should all be set just about the same. It's possible that the previous
owner adjusted the screws or even damaged the tips of the pilot screws,
so you might inspect the screws with a magnifying glass to see if one
or more is damaged.

I discovered that one of my Yamaha's pilot mixture screws had a
different length spring on it than the other three, but I had already
mixed up the springs so I don't know if it was on the screw that was
2.5 turns out. I eventually set all the pilot mixture screws at 0.25
turns out, after experimenting with 1.0 and 0.5 turns out. With the
pilot screws turned out
1.0 and 0.5 turns, the idle speed was too fast when the engine was
running on the choke in the morning, and the idle speed would increase
when the engine got hot and I would have to keep turning it down. Then
the next morning, the idle speed would be too low when the engine was
cold.

The problem with opening the pilot mixture screws too far is that I
wound up uncovering the unregulated transition ports. Read on,
stageleft...

Another reason for the center cylinders being set to run a little
richer than the outer cylinders has to do with intake tract length or
the fact that the center cylinders of an air-cooled engine need to
waste a little fuel to cool the them, since there's not as much air
flow.

But the center cylinder's pilot mixture screws shouldn't be set so rich
they
carbon foul the spark plugs...

When you adjust the pilot mixture, always remember that the strategy is
to
LEAN up the idle mixture by turning the pilot screws CLOCKWISE, and
compensating for the expected RPM increase by turning the master idle
knob
COUNTERCLOCKWISE. You're trying to achieve a smooth idle at the
smallest amount of throttle butterfly opening that makes the engine run
at the specified idle RPM.

Amateur tuners get all screwed up when the RPM doesn't increase as
expected when they turn the pilot screws COUNTERCLOCKWISE. The engine
speed doesn't increase, it may even slow down, the exhaust sound
becomes thudding and muffled, and the amateur tuner compensates by
turning the master idle knob
CLOCKWISE. Then he runs into all kinds of problems with the RPM hanging
up when he blips the throttle, and the engine RPM is too high when
running on the choke.

For many more words on the subject, google for "spectraltarsier@aol
+transition ports"

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R. Pierce Butler

External


Since: Jul 16, 2005
Posts: 297



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: XJ750 Pilot Mixture Adjustment [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"krusty kritter" <kriyamanna.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1122818624.330872.285150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
> stageleft wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what the factory pre-set is?
>
> No, even the factory doesn't know that information. The carbs may be
> individually set on a single cylinder test engine, or they may be set
> on a 4-cylinder test engine with a 4-into-1 exhaust system and an
> exhaust gas analyzer.
>
> That would explain why the pilot mixture screws on my FZR-1000 were set
> at
> 0.12, 0.30. 0.40. and 2.5 turns out. If an exhaust gas analyzer is used
> to test the emissions of an engine with multiple carburetors and a
> common exhaust pipe, the best it can do is measure an AVERAGE of the
> four idle mixtures.
>
> But, you want a starting point, and you figure that the starting point
> is to make all the pilot mixture screw settings the same. That's an
> excellent strategy. You have a set of precision made carbs and they
> should all be set just about the same. It's possible that the previous
> owner adjusted the screws or even damaged the tips of the pilot screws,
> so you might inspect the screws with a magnifying glass to see if one
> or more is damaged.
>
> I discovered that one of my Yamaha's pilot mixture screws had a
> different length spring on it than the other three, but I had already
> mixed up the springs so I don't know if it was on the screw that was
> 2.5 turns out. I eventually set all the pilot mixture screws at 0.25
> turns out, after experimenting with 1.0 and 0.5 turns out. With the
> pilot screws turned out
> 1.0 and 0.5 turns, the idle speed was too fast when the engine was
> running on the choke in the morning, and the idle speed would increase
> when the engine got hot and I would have to keep turning it down. Then
> the next morning, the idle speed would be too low when the engine was
> cold.
>
> The problem with opening the pilot mixture screws too far is that I
> wound up uncovering the unregulated transition ports. Read on,
> stageleft...
>
> Another reason for the center cylinders being set to run a little
> richer than the outer cylinders has to do with intake tract length or
> the fact that the center cylinders of an air-cooled engine need to
> waste a little fuel to cool the them, since there's not as much air
> flow.
>
> But the center cylinder's pilot mixture screws shouldn't be set so rich
> they
> carbon foul the spark plugs...
>
> When you adjust the pilot mixture, always remember that the strategy is
> to
> LEAN up the idle mixture by turning the pilot screws CLOCKWISE, and
> compensating for the expected RPM increase by turning the master idle
> knob
> COUNTERCLOCKWISE. You're trying to achieve a smooth idle at the
> smallest amount of throttle butterfly opening that makes the engine run
> at the specified idle RPM.
>
> Amateur tuners get all screwed up when the RPM doesn't increase as
> expected when they turn the pilot screws COUNTERCLOCKWISE. The engine
> speed doesn't increase, it may even slow down, the exhaust sound
> becomes thudding and muffled, and the amateur tuner compensates by
> turning the master idle knob
> CLOCKWISE. Then he runs into all kinds of problems with the RPM hanging
> up when he blips the throttle, and the engine RPM is too high when
> running on the choke.
>
> For many more words on the subject, google for "spectraltarsier@aol
> +transition ports"
>
>

Your advice on the setting of idle mixture and speed is spot on. I spent
over 5 years as a mechanic and it is amazing how many carbs come in setup
completely wrong. Adjusting the mixture for highest attainable rpm and
setting the idle speed down to normal or slightly below while adjusting,
makes for a smooth running and efficient engine. I always did the final
adjustment of the mixture at a slightly lower rpm than normal. When I was
satisfied with the idle mixture adjust the speed up to where it is supposed
to be. The results? Perfect idle. Air cooled engines are a bit trickier.
They can't be too hot or too cold.

rj
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baz666

External


Since: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: XJ750 Pilot Mixture Adjustment [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

the factory setting of the pilot mixture screws is usually about 1 turn
out from bottom.
That is too lean but used to pass emission regulations.
The optimum setting for the XJ750 is between 2 and 2.5 turns out from
bottom.
So pull out those little rubber caps and bottom each screw carefully.
There's a tiny spring in there so don't reef on it. Just gently bottom
it, then carefully turn each one out to between 2 and 2.5 turns. You'll
like the result...
thx,
baz



stageleft Wrote:
> I’ve recently bought an 83 XJ750 and am having considerable
> difficulity with carb adjustments - specifically 1 & 4 are doing fine,
> 2 & 3 are running rich.
>
> I’ve had the carbs cleaned, replaced the needles and jets, had the
> carbs sync’d (vacum tube) twice, checked all the rubber boots for
> cracks, have made multiple float level adjustments and checked the
> levels against with what the manual says they should read on a tube,
> and while each adjustment nets some little bit of improvement I am
> quickly coming to the conclusion that the previous owner may have
> tinkered with the pilot mixture adjustment screws.
>
> Unfortunately the Haynes manual says little more than "these are
> pre-set" and "do not touch", and dealers mutter archane words about
> horrible and dire consequences when asked. I would like to know what
> the factory pre-set is so I can check to see if that is what they are
> set to but this information seems to have a higher classification than
> most mortal riders can hope to attain, even Mr. Google has been of no
> help to me.
>
> I have considered checking where 1 and/or 4 are set and seeing if 2 &
> 3 are at least in the general neighbourhood - is this a workable plan?
>
> Does anyone know what the factory pre-set is?
>
> Thanks
>
> M
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www.motorcycleforumz.com interface, at author's
> request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL: http://tinyurl.com/oyc62
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
> http://www.motorcycleforumz.com/eform.php?p=7483224




--
baz666
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FB

External


Since: Feb 16, 2006
Posts: 234



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:45 pm
Post subject: Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

baz666 wrote:
> the factory setting of the pilot mixture screws is usually about 1 turn
> out from bottom.

Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? It's far too
late to help the original poster, he;s never going to read your reply,
so why bother answering an old thread?
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FB

External


Since: Feb 16, 2006
Posts: 234



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:14 am
Post subject: Re: Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Scott wrote:

> In any case, a follow-up to an old article may still help *someone* who is
> searching the archives for information, if not the OP. As long as it's
> topical and relevant, why get your shorts into a knot? Frankly I find the
> belated responses a lot less annoying than your whining about them.

I seriously doubt that reading late follow up posts to a thread that is
even a month old ever does anybody any good.

Threads that go on and on and on become more and more trollishly
argumentative than informative, and they waste the time of people who
are actually interested in helping the original person who had the
TECHNICAL problem.

When the OP *never* responds to any helpful advice whatever, all effort
expended in trying to help him/her is wasted.

So why dredge up old posts?
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Scott

External


Since: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 63



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 29 Jul 2006 19:45:06 -0700, "FB" <flying_booger.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? It's far too
>late to help the original poster, he;s never going to read your reply,
>so why bother answering an old thread?

Generalize much? I still have articles I posted in 1999 earmarked in my
newsreader. If someone posts a follow-up to one of them, I'll see it.

In any case, a follow-up to an old article may still help *someone* who is
searching the archives for information, if not the OP. As long as it's
topical and relevant, why get your shorts into a knot? Frankly I find the
belated responses a lot less annoying than your whining about them.

-Scott
--
'73 CB450K
'82 CB900F (x2)
'04 FSC600 (SWMBO)
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Pete M

External


Since: May 07, 2006
Posts: 46



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: Why are you responding to threads that are a year old? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"FB" <flying_booger RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1154279641.409852.239540@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Scott wrote:
>
>> In any case, a follow-up to an old article may still help *someone* who
>> is
>> searching the archives for information, if not the OP. As long as it's
>> topical and relevant, why get your shorts into a knot? Frankly I find
>> the
>> belated responses a lot less annoying than your whining about them.
>
> I seriously doubt that reading late follow up posts to a thread that is
> even a month old ever does anybody any good.
>
> Threads that go on and on and on become more and more trollishly
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> argumentative than informative, and they waste the time of people who
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Surprised)


> are actually interested in helping the original person who had the
> TECHNICAL problem.
>
> When the OP *never* responds to any helpful advice whatever, all effort
> expended in trying to help him/her is wasted.
>
> So why dredge up old posts?
>
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