Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame?

"Nev.." <idiot.TakeThisOut@mindless.com> wrote:
 >
 > Intact Kneeslider wrote:
  > >
  > > "Nev.." <idiot.TakeThisOut@mindless.com> wrote:
   > > >
   > > > Zebee Johnstone wrote:
   > > >
   > > > > Haven't seen the report, and the press article is clearly
   > > > > sensationalised.
   > > >
   > > > Which is strange, because the author is a motorcycle
   > > > rider himself.
  > >
  > > In his private correspondence with people, Scruby likes
  > > to point out that he's a former motorcyclist of six years.
 >
 > Perhaps, but I believe the author of that article owns the bike
 > I see parked every time I ride past The Age offices.

Poor choice of example on my part... The Age's reporter would be in the same
position as highway patrol cops or Tenix employees who ride... (shrug) "Meh,
it's a job."...

On this occasion, the reporter carried out his job as he was supposed to;
mapped a by-the-numbers government press release into a by-the-numbers,
minimum-turnaround, express-no-opinion newspaper article, chalking up
example #several million of a public-relations professional taking advantage
of the principle of objectivity as it applies to overworked, undermotivated
small-time journalists.

The news here wasn't "Results of Survey into Motorcycle Crash Patterns
Announced", rather "Government office Issues Statement"...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:19:05 +1100, moike <moike RemoveThis @telstra.com> wrote:

 >
 >The left hand bends thing was a bit of a puzzle for me at first.

I wasn't surprised, for the reasons you mentioned.

 >I always feel a little more nervous on right hand bends.
 >
 >So I suppose if I am going to overcook a corner it is going to be a left
 >hander.
 >
 >Running wide on a right hander puts you in the dirt.
 >
 >Running wide on a left hander puts you in the shit if there's on-coming
 >traffic.
 >
 >So I suppose that if taking a corner too fast is going to be fatal, it's
 >more likely to be on a left-hander.

Plus, on a downhill section, gravity ain't your friend. I will quite
happily scrape pegs on the uphill twisties, but get very nervous on the
downhill ones.

---
Cheers

PeterC [aka MildThing]
'81 Suzuki GS450-s
'87 BMW K100RT

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dmcsc.org.au" target="_blank">www.dmcsc.org.au</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

"Theo Bekkers" <theo.DeleteThis@bekkers.com.au> wrote in news:405f3156$1
@news.bekkers.com.au:
 > Near-fatal? Is that similar to non-fatal?

It's probably similar to a 'near miss'. (That's a 'hit',
right?)

G<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

"Theo Bekkers" <theo.RemoveThis@bekkers.com.au> wrote in news:405f5623$1
@news.bekkers.com.au:
 > Well, there's Corks (spelling), Nev (wit), IK (humour), KP (politically),
 > and Bobby (just impaired) for starters.

Hey! I'm not all that bright. Can I be on your list?

G<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

Peter Cremasco <crumpetDELETE.RemoveThis@dnet.aunz.com> wrote in
news:feat50h8vh7lidfgkissil3iq4525gfp8f@4ax.com:
 > Plus, on a downhill section, gravity ain't your friend. I will quite
 > happily scrape pegs on the uphill twisties, but get very nervous on the
 > downhill ones.

Different strokes for different folks. When I was a young-un
I used to go out hooning about at night with my little brother in the
Mighty 1600 and the not-so-mighty 200B. He used to go first on
the downhills, and I used to go first on the uphills. Neither of
us was any good on t'other. I'm the same on the bike, I like
the uphills.

G<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

"GB" <g.b RemoveThis @sonicresearch.mailme.org> wrote;
 > Different strokes for different folks. When I was a young-un
 > I used to go out hooning about at night with my little brother in the
 > Mighty 1600 and the not-so-mighty 200B. He used to go first on
 > the downhills, and I used to go first on the uphills. Neither of
 > us was any good on t'other. I'm the same on the bike, I like
 > the uphills.
 >
Jeeze Geoff; I wouldnt've called you all those names if I'd known your were
a fellow Datto 1600 man!
(A car so good and so much fun it should be re-classified as an honorary
motorcycle!)
Clem<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

On 22/3/04 11:41 AM, in article
pan.2004.03.22.11.41.07.625203.4500 RemoveThis @nospam.ozemail.com.au, "sanbar"
<sandbar RemoveThis @nospam.ozemail.com.au> decided to come out from under the bed and
slurred:

 > Bikers' fault in most crashes
 > By Ian Munro
 > March 22, 2004
 >
 > Motorcyclists were at fault in three-quarters of fatal or near-fatal
 > crashes involving them, according to a detailed Victoria Police road crash
 > investigation from May 2002 to April 2003.
 >
 > Excessive speed and alcohol and drug consumption were found to be key
 > elements in causing serious motorcycle crashes.
 >
 > But the study, to be released today, also found left-hand bends with a
 > downhill slope particularly lethal for riders.
 >
 > More at <http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/21/1079823245290.html>
 >
 > - sanbar

Yawn.

Hammo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

On 22/3/04 2:36 PM, in article slrnc5snlr.6rv.zebee DeleteThis @zeus.zipworld.com.au,
"Zebee Johnstone" <zebee DeleteThis @zip.com.au> decided to come out from under the bed
and slurred:

 > In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:48:24 +1100
 > Silmaril <someone DeleteThis @somewhere.com> wrote:
  >> Read carefully - a huge sample of 47!!!!
  >>
 >
 > fatals. They say "and serious injury" but it isn't clear what the
 > criteria for that are, or if all such crashes are included.
 >
 > 47 is about right I'd have said for one years worth of fatal crashes.
 >
 > The concentration on fatals is a problem. Small sample sizes, and the
 > fact that in bike crashes there's a fine line between "dead" and
 > "smashed up".
 >
 > Haven't seen the report, and the press article is clearly
 > sensationalised. However, it does appear that the majority of fatals
 > were single vehicle, and the majority of multi-vehicles were not the
 > bike's fault in any way.
 >
 >
 > However... there is a bit of "we can do no wrong" amongst bikers.
 >
 > Zebee

Did you read the details of the report, Zebee? 12 am to 6 am!

Hammo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

On 22/3/04 4:06 PM, in article slrnc5ssv3.8pn.zebee.TakeThisOut@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
"Zebee Johnstone" <zebee.TakeThisOut@zip.com.au> decided to come out from under the bed
and slurred:

 > In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:19:05 +1100
 > moike <moike.TakeThisOut@telstra.com> wrote:
  >>
  >> I always feel a little more nervous on right hand bends.
  >>
 >
 > Lots of people do - there's not a nice line to follow, the corner isn't
 > as "inviting".
 >
 > but people in RHD countries prefer left handers too... Keith Code
 > speculates it is because in a right you are countersteering with the
 > non-throttle hand, it's easier as you aren't giving steering and
 > throttle inputs with the same hand.
 >
 > Zebee

I enjoyed the Right handers more when in RHD countries.

Hammo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

The report was instigated after the introduction of the $50 levy in Victoria.
Some of the issues raised by the 'motorcycle lobby' which lead to this study
were that they were making licensed motorcycle riders on registered bikes pay
extra even though 1/ drivers of other vehicles were at fault in many
motorcycle accidents and 2/ unlicenced riders and/or 3/ unregistered bikes
were significantly represented in the road toll statistics.

The report shows that 19% of the cases in the study involved unlicenced
riders.

The summary of the report described the 5% of unregistered bikes as a "very
small proportion".

While the report concluded that 77% (36) of the "collisions" studied were the
fault of the rider, only 30 out of the 47 accidents investigated actually
involved a collision with another vehicle. 6 riders fell off and hit nothing,
5 hit trees, 1 hit armco, 1 hit Briffen barrier, 2 hit poles and 2 hit some
other fixed objects. Assuming that "fault" was attributed to the rider in all
17 of these "single vehicle collisions" that reveals that 40% of the
collisions which actually involved another vehicles were the fault of the
rider.

So basically, while the overall results might appear to make the riders look
bad, the results have probably justified the claims that licenced riders on
registered bikes are unfairly paying the $50 levy.

Surprisingly, considering the expression "at fault" is used right throughout
the report, there is no raw data provided showing the proportion of collisions
with other vehicles in metropolitan areas, although the report did acknowledge
that ALL of the accidents in which the rider was not at fault were in the
metro area, where you would expect that another vehicle would be more likely
to be involved. The report also acknowledged inconsistent recording of data
from accidents, which doesn't help much when the sample size of 47 is so
small.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

I'm not to blame - I've never crashed and died in Victoria.


BTH
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:47:12 GMT
sharkey <sharkey DeleteThis @zoic.org> wrote:
 >
 > My money's on the sample size, but you'd need the raw data to see.
 > Did they mention publishing anything anywhere?

Apparently it is to be published in the journal of "Australasian & South
Pacific Association of Collision Investigators". That famous
organisation.

A university reference librarian would be the best person to track that
journal down, unless you know a police force librarian....

There is a scanned copy floating about the various bike groups, but it
is missing the appendices and possibly other bits.

Zebee<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame? 

X-No-archive: yes
BT Humble wrote in message
<70800dae.0403231808.48e238ed.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
 >I'm not to blame - I've never crashed and died in Victoria.
 >
I crashed and my chances of riding Wootton's RC30 died.... Does that count?
Clem
(It was on a left-hand bend and I was intoxicated too! .... Well; a throaty
three-pipe triple accelerating towards redline in third is pretty friggin'
intoxicating!)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Victorian motorcycle crash stats - we're to blame?