Valve Cover Sealant

"gazzafield" <rufty_tufty_hoolythug.RemoveThis@nospam.says_I.ko> posted in
rec.motorcycles.tech:

 > "Larry" <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
 > news:kNjie.3936$Rr3.476@read1.cgocable.net...
  >>I have an 85 Shadow 1100 that has no gasket on the valve cover.
  >>The manual recommends a liquid sealant. I used Permetex blue RTV
  >>but it leaks.
  >> What's the best type to use?
 >
 >
 >
 > If it really does say no gasket I would use an old, large
 > cornflakes box or similar with a skim of sealant on either side.
 > There isn't too much pressure up in the valve area so it should
 > hold up fine. There is also the possibility that your valve is
 > slightly warped causing the leak.

Make sure you tighten the bolts in a star pattern, like tightening
the lug nuts on a car's wheel, and only torque to the specified
value.

Also, make sure the mating surfaces are completely clean and dry.
Any oil or old sealant can cause a leak.

I find it weird that there isn't a rubber gasket. My '85 VF700S had
one (well, two... well, three, but that's another story).


--
Michael J. Freeman mike_freeman.RemoveThis@SPMBLOKmac.com
'99 GSF1200S (The Evil Bandit) Cincinnati, OH, USA

"Insanity runs in the family... it practically gallops"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

When I removed the valve cover there was no gasket and the manual states
sealant only. It looks like a clear sealant was used before.
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

In article <FIadnZTSL7vkTRTfRVnygw RemoveThis @pipex.net>,
"gazzafield" <rufty_tufty_hoolythug RemoveThis @nospam.says_I.ko> wrote:

 > "Larry" <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
 > news:kNjie.3936$Rr3.476@read1.cgocable.net...
  > >I have an 85 Shadow 1100 that has no gasket on the valve cover. The manual
  > >recommends a liquid sealant. I used Permetex blue RTV but it leaks.
  > > What's the best type to use?
 >
 >
 >
 > If it really does say no gasket I would use an old, large cornflakes box or
 > similar with a skim of sealant on either side. There isn't too much
 > pressure up in the valve area so it should hold up fine. There is also the
 > possibility that your valve is slightly warped causing the leak.
 >
Without meaning to be picky, he didn't say that there should be no
gasket, only that there isn't one there. I couldn't find fiche for the
'85 Shadow, but the fiche for the '87 shows gaskets in that location.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with that machine to know how
similar the '85 is to the '87. I'd be a bit surprised that Honda didn't
put a gasket there, though.

For the OP:
1. are you _sure_ that there's not supposed to be a gasket there?
2. Whose manual are you using? IME Honda manuals specify the sealant to
be used.

--
Later.
johajohn RemoveThis @indianahoosiers.edu
Let 'indiana' be a 'noln', and 'hoosiers' be a 'solkk'.
Leave only the 'noln' and .edu after the @ to reply .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

John Johnson <null.RemoveThis@invalid.com> wrote:
 > In article <FIadnZTSL7vkTRTfRVnygw.RemoveThis@pipex.net>,
 > "gazzafield" <rufty_tufty_hoolythug.RemoveThis@nospam.says_I.ko> wrote:
 >
  >> "Larry" <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
  >> news:kNjie.3936$Rr3.476@read1.cgocable.net...
   >> >I have an 85 Shadow 1100 that has no gasket on the valve cover. The manual
   >> >recommends a liquid sealant. I used Permetex blue RTV but it leaks.
   >> > What's the best type to use?
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> If it really does say no gasket I would use an old, large cornflakes box or
  >> similar with a skim of sealant on either side. There isn't too much
  >> pressure up in the valve area so it should hold up fine. There is also the
  >> possibility that your valve is slightly warped causing the leak.
  >>
 > Without meaning to be picky, he didn't say that there should be no
 > gasket, only that there isn't one there. I couldn't find fiche for the
 > '85 Shadow, but the fiche for the '87 shows gaskets in that location.
 > Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with that machine to know how
 > similar the '85 is to the '87. I'd be a bit surprised that Honda didn't
 > put a gasket there, though.
 >
 > For the OP:
 > 1. are you _sure_ that there's not supposed to be a gasket there?
 > 2. Whose manual are you using? IME Honda manuals specify the sealant to
 > be used.

I looked up the fiche in two places, they both show gaskets for the cam
covers on the '85 VT1100C. I don't know whose manual the OP is using,
but it's wrong. There's two gaskets per cylinder head:

============================================================
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ronayers.com:" target="_blank">http://www.ronayers.com:</a>
Part Number: 12321-MG8-004
Description: GASKET, CM CHN CVR
Price: $4.03

Part Number: 12332-MG8-306
Description: GASKET, TAPPET COVER
Price: $3.32

============================================================
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.servicehonda.com" target="_blank">http://www.servicehonda.com</a>
Part Number Description List Price Your Price!
12321-MG8-004 GASKET, CM CHN CVR 4.73 3.59
12332-MG8-306 GASKET, TAPPET COVER 3.89 2.95

============================================================

Unless the genuine Honda service manual says to apply any sealer to
those gaskets (and I very much doubt it would) you should order those
gaskets and use no goop there.

--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

In article <118k4luc49cv280.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>,
Mark Olson <olsonm.TakeThisOut@tiny.invalid> wrote:

 > John Johnson <null.TakeThisOut@invalid.com> wrote:
  > > In article <FIadnZTSL7vkTRTfRVnygw.TakeThisOut@pipex.net>,
  > > "gazzafield" <rufty_tufty_hoolythug.TakeThisOut@nospam.says_I.ko> wrote:
  > >
   > >> "Larry" <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
   > >> news:kNjie.3936$Rr3.476@read1.cgocable.net...
   > >> >I have an 85 Shadow 1100 that has no gasket on the valve cover. The
   > >> >manual
   > >> >recommends a liquid sealant. I used Permetex blue RTV but it leaks.
   > >> > What's the best type to use?
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> If it really does say no gasket I would use an old, large cornflakes box
   > >> or
   > >> similar with a skim of sealant on either side. There isn't too much
   > >> pressure up in the valve area so it should hold up fine. There is also
   > >> the
   > >> possibility that your valve is slightly warped causing the leak.
   > >>
  > > Without meaning to be picky, he didn't say that there should be no
  > > gasket, only that there isn't one there. I couldn't find fiche for the
  > > '85 Shadow, but the fiche for the '87 shows gaskets in that location.
  > > Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with that machine to know how
  > > similar the '85 is to the '87. I'd be a bit surprised that Honda didn't
  > > put a gasket there, though.
  > >
  > > For the OP:
  > > 1. are you _sure_ that there's not supposed to be a gasket there?
  > > 2. Whose manual are you using? IME Honda manuals specify the sealant to
  > > be used.
 >
 > I looked up the fiche in two places, they both show gaskets for the cam
 > covers on the '85 VT1100C. I don't know whose manual the OP is using,
 > but it's wrong. There's two gaskets per cylinder head:
 >
 > ============================================================
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ronayers.com:</font" target="_blank">http://www.ronayers.com:</font</a>>
 > Part Number: 12321-MG8-004
 > Description: GASKET, CM CHN CVR
 > Price: $4.03
 >
 > Part Number: 12332-MG8-306
 > Description: GASKET, TAPPET COVER
 > Price: $3.32
 >
 > ============================================================
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.servicehonda.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.servicehonda.com</font</a>>
 > Part Number Description List Price Your Price!
 > 12321-MG8-004 GASKET, CM CHN CVR 4.73 3.59
 > 12332-MG8-306 GASKET, TAPPET COVER 3.89 2.95
 >
 > ============================================================
 >
 > Unless the genuine Honda service manual says to apply any sealer to
 > those gaskets (and I very much doubt it would) you should order those
 > gaskets and use no goop there.


Good work. I don't know how I missed the '85 at Ron Ayers (which is
where I found the '87 fiche). This is one more reason to get the Honda
manual instead of something else.

As for the use of 'goop' on my VFR Honda specifies the use of Hondabond
on the cam cover gaskets, and not just on the 'half-moons'. I don't mean
to imply that the OP should use anything on his gaskets, but to say that
whether any sealant should be used, and what sealant to use, will vary
from bike to bike. As Mr. Olson says above, you need to know what Honda
recommends for _your_ bike before making any decisions about what (not)
to use.

--
Later.
johajohn.TakeThisOut@indianahoosiers.edu
Let 'indiana' be a 'noln', and 'hoosiers' be a 'solkk'.
Leave only the 'noln' and .edu after the @ to reply .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

John Johnson <null.DeleteThis@invalid.com> wrote:
 > Good work. I don't know how I missed the '85 at Ron Ayers (which is
 > where I found the '87 fiche). This is one more reason to get the Honda
 > manual instead of something else.

Actually I didn't use the fiche at ronayers.com, just their price lookup
function. I used the fiche lookups at partsfish.com and servicehonda.com.
I didn't bother listing the prices from partsfish.com because they are
usually too expensive.

I have bought a parts for Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda on more than one
occasion from ronayers.com and I recommend them. I have also placed
orders for Honda parts with servicehonda.com, and they have done well
by me.

As far as the Honda manual vs. aftermarket- I have been rethinking my
position on this lately. I happen to have Clymer manuals for my Hondas,
I didn't purchase any of them deliberately, they just came with the bikes.
I have found, more than once, valuable information in the Clymer manuals
that is not contained in the factory manuals. Part of the reason for
this is Honda's segregation of some service information into their Common
Service Manual, and part is just that an aftermarket supplier is free
to add information gleaned from hands-on experience that may be slightly
counter to the official Honda position.

In any case, I now recommend if you only have one manual, make it the
Clymer or possibly Haynes (AKA Book Of Lies) but it's best to have the
genuine manual plus a 3rd party manual for completeness' sake.

--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

I'm using the Honda Factory manual and a Haynes manual. There is a gasket
on the tappet cover and the cam cover but NO gasket on the cylinder head
cover.

Thats where the leak is coming from between the cylinder & the cylinder head
cover. The manual states" Apply a liquid sealant to the mating surfaces of
the cylinder head cover" I checked the Service Honda fiche and it shows no
gasket. As I mentioned when I pulled the cover off there was no gasket but
sings of a clear sealant.
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

In article <118k9na7guckd6a.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>,
Mark Olson <olsonm.TakeThisOut@tiny.invalid> wrote:

 > John Johnson <null.TakeThisOut@invalid.com> wrote:
  > > Good work. I don't know how I missed the '85 at Ron Ayers (which is
  > > where I found the '87 fiche). This is one more reason to get the Honda
  > > manual instead of something else.
 >
 > Actually I didn't use the fiche at ronayers.com, just their price lookup
 > function. I used the fiche lookups at partsfish.com and servicehonda.com.

That would explain it, then.

 > As far as the Honda manual vs. aftermarket- I have been rethinking my
 > position on this lately. I happen to have Clymer manuals for my Hondas,
 > I didn't purchase any of them deliberately, they just came with the bikes.
 > I have found, more than once, valuable information in the Clymer manuals
 > that is not contained in the factory manuals. Part of the reason for
 > this is Honda's segregation of some service information into their Common
 > Service Manual, and part is just that an aftermarket supplier is free
 > to add information gleaned from hands-on experience that may be slightly
 > counter to the official Honda position.

All true enough. I've just been burned and/or confused rather often with
Haynes and Clymers products in the past (though their quality may very
well have come up since). The only problem with the Honda manual is the
dreaded "special tool", instead of which, as you point out, aftermarket
manuals often have suggestions for alternative procedures.


 >
 > In any case, I now recommend if you only have one manual, make it the
 > Clymer or possibly Haynes (AKA Book Of Lies) but it's best to have the
 > genuine manual plus a 3rd party manual for completeness' sake.

lol I'd go the other way: if you had to only get one, get the Honda. It
certainly is better to have a couple of manuals to check against,
though. I've heard good things about the common service manual, but
never managed to get around to owning one. <shrug> Always check your
public library. You never know what manuals they've got stashed there.

--
Later.
johajohn.TakeThisOut@indianahoosiers.edu
Let 'indiana' be a 'noln', and 'hoosiers' be a 'solkk'.
Leave only the 'noln' and .edu after the @ to reply .<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

Larry <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote:
 >
 > I'm using the Honda Factory manual and a Haynes manual. There is a gasket
 > on the tappet cover and the cam cover but NO gasket on the cylinder head
 > cover.
 >
 > Thats where the leak is coming from between the cylinder & the cylinder head
 > cover. The manual states" Apply a liquid sealant to the mating surfaces of
 > the cylinder head cover" I checked the Service Honda fiche and it shows no
 > gasket. As I mentioned when I pulled the cover off there was no gasket but
 > sings of a clear sealant.

Then you use Yamabond or Honda's equivalent. This is probably a case
where the Honda common service manual might actually be worth having.
I'm fairly sure what you want is an anaerobic gasket maker such as one
of Permatex's offerings:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.permatex.com/heavy_duty/Transmissions.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=51813" target="_blank">http://www.permatex.com/heavy_duty/Transmissions.asp?automotive=yes&f_...l=get_i</a>

Or
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.permatex.com/motorcycle/PermMotoSeal.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=29132" target="_blank">http://www.permatex.com/motorcycle/PermMotoSeal.asp?automotive=yes&f_c...=get_it</a>

Or
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.permatex.com/motorcycle/PermMotoSeal.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=30304" target="_blank">http://www.permatex.com/motorcycle/PermMotoSeal.asp?automotive=yes&f_c...=get_it</a>

Any of these will probably work fine if you make sure the surfaces are
perfectly flat, clean off all traces of oil from the mating surfaces,
and follow the directions. If I remember correctly, you should apply a
thin coating to both sides, let it dry, and assemble gently, let it dry
fully, then apply final torque, so you don't squeeze out all the goop.

Good luck.

--
Mark '01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant 

"Larry" <fz750(remove)@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:kNjie.3936$Rr3.476@read1.cgocable.net...
 >I have an 85 Shadow 1100 that has no gasket on the valve cover. The manual
 >recommends a liquid sealant. I used Permetex blue RTV but it leaks.
 > What's the best type to use?
 >
 >
I actually prefer Three Bond and have used it for years with success.
Iowa883<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Valve Cover Sealant