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Next: VFR 800 vs. ST4S
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External
Since: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:40 pm
Post subject: VFR 800 or ST4S
Archived from groups: alt>motorcycles>ducati (more info?)
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I am looking for a sport tourer. Currently I ride a 2000 Yam R6 and am
looking to pick up something a bit more comfortable on long rides. I am
looking for a bike that is fund on the short runs and comfortable on the
longer ones. At least more comfortable than my R6. I have norrowed my
search down to Honda VFR, Ducati ST4S and Aprillia Futura. The Furtura is
at the bottom of my list as I just cant get past the looks. So that leaves
the VFR and ST4S to choose form. They can both meet my needs, but the
Ducati definately beats the VFR in the suspension department.
I would be interested in any feedback comparing these two bikes.
Thanks,
Frank |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:40 am
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Blizard" <blizard.TakeThisOut@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:_weLd.2864$3s2.549@fe12.lga...
>I am looking for a sport tourer. Currently I ride a 2000 Yam R6 and am
>looking to pick up something a bit more comfortable on long rides. I am
>looking for a bike that is fund on the short runs and comfortable on the
>longer ones. At least more comfortable than my R6. I have norrowed my
>search down to Honda VFR, Ducati ST4S and Aprillia Futura. The Furtura is
>at the bottom of my list as I just cant get past the looks. So that leaves
>the VFR and ST4S to choose form. They can both meet my needs, but the
>Ducati definately beats the VFR in the suspension department.
>
> I would be interested in any feedback comparing these two bikes.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
>
Hi Frank, my input for what it's worth 
To being with, I have never ridden a VFR so I will not comment. It does
little for me, although I suspect it is an immensely capable motorcycle.
Now to get to the interesting stuff 
I have owned an ST4s, ridden it for about 8,000 miles, 2,500 miles of which
was a 3 week tour down to the Dordogne region of France, back up into Paris
and home (Midlands, UK). I love(d) that bike, and only traded it in because
I really wanted to own a 749s. What I can tell you with absolute certainty
is this: The ST4s is a very well specced machine. Depending on the final
gearing (geared down on later models to tame it, and might be in your
country wherever that might be!), it will either be a handful to ride with
the front wheel having a tendency to come up, or be long legged for runs
across the country. Get it mid-way and it'll be great. I have mates who are
not as tall as I (I am 6 foot), and I know that they struggle to comfortably
touch down their feet and also the bars are a stretch. I have had an R6 on
loan for a few days, and it was small in comparison. You can solve the bar
reach problem a bit by adding risers, but it does alter the front oriented
geometry a bit in that case. The Ohlins suspension is the finest I have had
the pleasure of, soaking up bumpy surfaces at 80mph whilst my mates were
bouncing along at 50 getting left behind. I didn't know what all the fuss
was about! The handling of the ST4s is brilliant, and it is fast cornering
(light Marchesini rims, TIN plated forks). The seat is comfortable, although
on our France tour it was so hot that wearing denims instead of leathers
caused some discomfort in the seat department. I think I ended up with a
denim patterned rash after that one. That said, I just wasn't used to doing
distances day after day anyway!
As for the Aprilia ... I have a mate with a Falco, which is a re-tuned RSV
motor in a sports-touring chassis. Came a close second choice when I got the
ST4s and I think now I should have gone for that. The looks at much better
than the Futura (IMHO) and the performance, handling etc are really good.
They are excellent value for money too. The re-tuning on the RSV motor gives
you better performance across the range, making it better suited to it's
sports touring role (if you believe the blurb). Also Recommended.
As a final opinion ... I would suggest you will find all 3 bikes very
different to an R6, no doubt. The R6 didn't start to wake up until you got
over 10,000 rpm, and then it was hang on for dear life up to 15,000 rpm.
Took me a while to get out of the lazy lope along in almost any gear up to
8,000 rpm with useable torque from 3,000 rpm of the ST4s! But great fun when
you get used to the differences.
Cheers
Henry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Blizard" <blizard.RemoveThis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:_weLd.2864$3s2.549@fe12.lga...
|I am looking for a sport tourer. Currently I ride a 2000 Yam R6 and am
| looking to pick up something a bit more comfortable on long rides. I am
| looking for a bike that is fund on the short runs and comfortable on the
| longer ones. At least more comfortable than my R6. I have norrowed my
| search down to Honda VFR, Ducati ST4S and Aprillia Futura. The Furtura is
| at the bottom of my list as I just cant get past the looks. So that leaves
| the VFR and ST4S to choose form. They can both meet my needs, but the
| Ducati definately beats the VFR in the suspension department.
|
| I would be interested in any feedback comparing these two bikes.
|
| Thanks,
| Frank
Hi Frank,
Hi Henry,
I assume its cold where you hail from, here in sunny Australia it's a mid
summer's night at 8 pm, 35 deg.C.
I am the oppposite experience to Henry, having had 2 VFR800 VTEC 2003
models, with about 6000 Km on riden on each when they were sold, which took
a while on consignment basis.
Here the VFR VTEC is a "love or hate the looks bike", most people are
negative it seems.
I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than the
ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
The VFR is a great handler, with the lack of suspension adjustment caused no
problem's for me.
My height is 6 foot, and weigh 95 Kg by the way.
The VTEC bit is rather a waste, as when the 4 valves take over at 7000 rpm,
nothing much happens, except the engine note gets real harsh.
I found the Blackbird a more satisfying, although a third one would be used
as a racer than tourer.
Henry, sorry to say but the M620 didn't work for me. The novelity soon wore
off, the small donk, and all the gear changing, but great handling. A ride
day on the new S2R
when it arrives may tempt, but the cost cutting with the single front brake
is a cheap way out, and will spoil the S2R. The old model 748R is still my
favourite Duke.
Rob. >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 66
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx.DeleteThis@beer.com> wrote in message
news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than the
> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
I don't know why you would prefer the ST3 to the ST4s (to sit on). They are
identical in this respect. The only difference is the engine and suspension,
the chassis geometry and ergonomics are identical.
Spanky<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Spanky" <nospam.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xMGdnRp9Y-Z2D53fRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>
> "Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx.DeleteThis@beer.com> wrote in message
> news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than the
>> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
>
> I don't know why you would prefer the ST3 to the ST4s (to sit on). They
> are identical in this respect. The only difference is the engine and
> suspension, the chassis geometry and ergonomics are identical.
>
> Spanky
>
Is the new ST4s the same as the ST3? I know that compared to the earlier
ST4s the ST3 has a thicker seat, higher bars (on a riser) and a higher
screen. At least, in the UK it does ... not sure about regional changes. In
my opinion, it has made it look and feel more of a tourer than a
sports/tourer, although I have not ridden the ST3 so not really qualified to
dpass judgement. ST3 should be a good bike though from all accounts.
Frank, were you considering new or used machines? If used, then don't forget
that the Ducatis have 6k miles (10k km) service intervals, and it ain't
cheap. Not trying to put you off, because the Ducati would probably be my
choice, but many people sell them on just before the service.
Cheers
H<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Dec 31, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:40 am
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx DeleteThis @beer.com> wrote in message
news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Hi Henry,
> I assume its cold where you hail from, here in sunny Australia it's a mid
> summer's night at 8 pm, 35 deg.C.
Correct. Daytime temps now up to about 8C. Roads are still mucky though from
the rain and the accumulated road grit/salt. 749 is not coming out of the
garage until March I shouldn't think. (don;t have time to clean it after
every ride)
> I am the oppposite experience to Henry, having had 2 VFR800 VTEC 2003
> models, with about 6000 Km on riden on each when they were sold, which
> took
> a while on consignment basis.
> Here the VFR VTEC is a "love or hate the looks bike", most people are
> negative it seems.
> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than the
> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
> The VFR is a great handler, with the lack of suspension adjustment caused
> no
> problem's for me.
> My height is 6 foot, and weigh 95 Kg by the way.
> The VTEC bit is rather a waste, as when the 4 valves take over at 7000
> rpm,
> nothing much happens, except the engine note gets real harsh.
> I found the Blackbird a more satisfying, although a third one would be
> used
> as a racer than tourer.
The thing about the VFR is that it has been developed over a long preiod so
it is quite refined. I know there is a New Zealand bike touring company who
hire them out. Saw their stand at the NEC Bike Show show this year.
> Henry, sorry to say but the M620 didn't work for me. The novelity soon
> wore
> off, the small donk, and all the gear changing, but great handling. A ride
> day on the new S2R
> when it arrives may tempt, but the cost cutting with the single front
> brake
> is a cheap way out, and will spoil the S2R.
I hadn't realise that the S2R had a single front brake. Is that what you
said?
There was a lot of discussion some while ago (on this group) about
differences between a 5 gear M620 and a 6 gear M800, with the concensus
being (if I remember correctly) that the 5 speed box is better. (matter of
opinion I know). I am sure it makes for a very different experience anyway.
>The old model 748R is still my favourite Duke.
I only ever had chance to ride a 916, and then not far enough to get used to
it. I felt too much like I was perched up on it, but then the owner was
short and had fitted bar risers so he could reach them. It felt like an R6
to me, and a bit too radical. The 749 I felt was more comfortable, and I
quickly got used to the looks. In addition, I have heard that the 748 was a
bit "revvy" and needed keeping in the power to get going. Not sure I would
have liked that much, more like riding a Jap 4 possibly? (no flames please
.... just saying what I had heard)
Henry, (chilly and damp in the UK)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Oct 08, 2004
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Spanky" <nospam DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xMGdnRp9Y-Z2D53fRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>
> "Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx DeleteThis @beer.com> wrote in message
> news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than the
>> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
>
> I don't know why you would prefer the ST3 to the ST4s (to sit on). They
> are identical in this respect. The only difference is the engine and
> suspension, the chassis geometry and ergonomics are identical.
>
> Spanky
>
The top fairing and seat are different.
--
Paul Charlton
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.paulcharlton.org.uk" target="_blank">www.paulcharlton.org.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 66
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul" <df.RemoveThis@g.com> wrote in message news:ctrbaq$uno$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>
> "Spanky" <nospam.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xMGdnRp9Y-Z2D53fRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx.RemoveThis@beer.com> wrote in message
>> news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than
>>> the
>>> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
>>
>> I don't know why you would prefer the ST3 to the ST4s (to sit on). They
>> are identical in this respect. The only difference is the engine and
>> suspension, the chassis geometry and ergonomics are identical.
>>
>> Spanky
>>
>
> The top fairing and seat are different.
>
> --
> Paul Charlton
Nope. As long as you are comparing the ST3 and ST4s of equal model years
they are exactly the same. The newer models do have a different seat,
fairing and handlebars but the ST3 and ST4s are exactly the same in these
regards.
Spanky<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"HW" <hw RemoveThis @REMOVEhandk.plus.com> wrote in message
news:PB1Md.842383$f47.144973@news.easynews.com...
>
> "Spanky" <nospam RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xMGdnRp9Y-Z2D53fRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Getting Slower & Slower !" <xxxx RemoveThis @beer.com> wrote in message
>> news:2oJLd.143966$K7.109254@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>> I think that the more comparable Ducati would be the ST3, rather than
>>> the
>>> ST4S, although I have riden neither, but prefer the ST3 to sit on.
>>
>> I don't know why you would prefer the ST3 to the ST4s (to sit on). They
>> are identical in this respect. The only difference is the engine and
>> suspension, the chassis geometry and ergonomics are identical.
>>
>> Spanky
>>
>
> Is the new ST4s the same as the ST3? I know that compared to the earlier
> ST4s the ST3 has a thicker seat, higher bars (on a riser) and a higher
> screen. At least, in the UK it does ... not sure about regional changes.
> In my opinion, it has made it look and feel more of a tourer than a
> sports/tourer, although I have not ridden the ST3 so not really qualified
> to dpass judgement. ST3 should be a good bike though from all accounts.
>
> Frank, were you considering new or used machines? If used, then don't
> forget that the Ducatis have 6k miles (10k km) service intervals, and it
> ain't cheap. Not trying to put you off, because the Ducati would probably
> be my choice, but many people sell them on just before the service.
>
> Cheers
> H
>
Good point. Used is OK with me, but I like the changes that were mad in 04,
so I would probably not bother going back further than 1 year. That is
enough to save some money on insurance though. We get whacked in NJ for new
bikes.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 270
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Spanky wrote:
> Nope. As long as you are comparing the ST3 and ST4s of equal model years
> they are exactly the same. The newer models do have a different seat,
> fairing and handlebars but the ST3 and ST4s are exactly the same in these
> regards.
>
I just returned from the Cleveland bike show. I couldn't see any
differences between the 3 and 4. Even the front suspensions looked the
same to me. I didn't bother checking the rear unit; that wasn't why I
was in the Duc booth. I did sit on the silver ST3, and it fit me
perfectly, very similar to my old 907ie.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Oct 08, 2004
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>
> Nope. As long as you are comparing the ST3 and ST4s of equal model years
> they are exactly the same. The newer models do have a different seat,
> fairing and handlebars but the ST3 and ST4s are exactly the same in these
> regards.
>
> Spanky
>
Yep, you are quite right.
--
Paul Charlton
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.paulcharlton.org.uk" target="_blank">www.paulcharlton.org.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:26 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<ppointer.DeleteThis@nospamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hahMd.14707$i42.14645@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> Spanky wrote:
>> Nope. As long as you are comparing the ST3 and ST4s of equal model years
>> they are exactly the same. The newer models do have a different seat,
>> fairing and handlebars but the ST3 and ST4s are exactly the same in these
>> regards.
>>
> I just returned from the Cleveland bike show. I couldn't see any
> differences between the 3 and 4. Even the front suspensions looked the
> same to me. I didn't bother checking the rear unit; that wasn't why I
> was in the Duc booth. I did sit on the silver ST3, and it fit me
> perfectly, very similar to my old 907ie.
Only differences are suspension bits (better on ST4S + front is fully
adjustable), engine (ST4s gets 916 4 valve + more ponies), availability of
ABS and color options.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 66
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:21 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Blizard" <blizard.DeleteThis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:diVMd.8000$nu4.4322@fe12.lga...
> Only differences are suspension bits (better on ST4S + front is fully
> adjustable), engine (ST4s gets 916 4 valve + more ponies), availability of
> ABS and color options.
Actually, the ST4s comes with a 996 engine. And a sweet engine it is. It has
cams that have been hopped up in the midrange and yet the engine still gets
up and romps on the top end too.
Spanky<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Go here: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/" target="_blank">http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/st2_owners/</a>
These folks will give you the answers.
Ciao!
Bill
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.weathergod.com" target="_blank">www.weathergod.com</a>
"Blizard" <blizard.RemoveThis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:_weLd.2864$3s2.549@fe12.lga...
>I am looking for a sport tourer. Currently I ride a 2000 Yam R6 and am
>looking to pick up something a bit more comfortable on long rides. I am
>looking for a bike that is fund on the short runs and comfortable on the
>longer ones. At least more comfortable than my R6. I have norrowed my
>search down to Honda VFR, Ducati ST4S and Aprillia Futura. The Furtura is
>at the bottom of my list as I just cant get past the looks. So that leaves
>the VFR and ST4S to choose form. They can both meet my needs, but the
>Ducati definately beats the VFR in the suspension department.
>
> I would be interested in any feedback comparing these two bikes.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: VFR 800 or ST4S |
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External
Since: Feb 09, 2005
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:40 pm
Post subject: Re: VFR 800 or ST4S [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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