Special tools

"Craig" <googlegroupmail RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:60f4188d-0df6-469e-8706-419d738edd51@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> The clutch basket on my xr250 is held on by a nut that requires a
> special tool to remove. Here's a pic:
>
> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/forcedtojoin/xr250/clutchnut.jpg
>
> Why do manufacturers do this kind of thing? I can't see how this nut
> would cost less than a conventional one.
>
> Over the years I've heard a few theories:
>
> To sell special tools.
> To generate business for dealers.
> To deter hack mechanics.
> Just to F with us.
>
> Anyone know the real reason?
>
> Craig

Maybe the same people that make watches. A Crescent wrench across some
alligator nose pliers would be too evil.

Joe

XL600R
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On Feb 7, 11:21 pm, Craig <googlegroupm... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> The clutch basket on my xr250 is held on by a nut that requires a
> special tool to remove. Here's a pic:

This is the same nut that holds the clutch basket and the oil pump of
my old NX200. I could remove it with a screwdriver and a hammer,
punching the nut to turn it.

It is easy to make the tool. Find a steel pipe of the right diameter
and cut teeth the right size of the slots of the nut. Weld a "T"
handle on the pipe. I thought this was way too much work, so I pounded
the nut with screwdriver and hammer and replaced for a hex nut.

-- Tiago
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On Feb 8, 3:41 am, "Joseph Rooney" <ikeroone... DeleteThis @pcmagic.net> wrote:

> Maybe the same people that make watches.  A Crescent wrench across some
> alligator nose pliers would be too evil.

I've broken at least one set of pliers trying to do that with the
weird Honda wheel bearing retainer thingamajig from the 80s. The right
tool for this job was $8 and when I stopped to pick it up I got to
take an enexpected ride on a ktm380sx. It's always fun to ride
something new. For the record, a 380sx isn't the right tight woods
bike for me.

Craig
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On Feb 8, 6:09 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 11:21 pm, Craig <googlegroupm....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The clutch basket on my xr250 is held on by a nut that requires a
> > special tool to remove. Here's a pic:
>
> This is the same nut that holds the clutch basket and the oil pump of
> my old NX200. I could remove it with a screwdriver and a hammer,
> punching the nut to turn it.
>
> It is easy to make the tool. Find a steel pipe of the right diameter
> and cut teeth the right size of the slots of the nut. Weld a "T"
> handle on the pipe. I thought this was way too much work, so I pounded
> the nut with screwdriver and hammer and replaced for a hex nut.
>
> -- Tiago


If you have a welder (gas or elec) you can just weld (or braze, plenty
strong) 2 or 4 small pieces of metal to the end of a piece of pipe. I
usually use little pieces of cut nail (nice and hard metal).

DDave
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On Feb 7, 9:21 pm, Craig <googlegroupm....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The clutch basket on my xr250 is held on by a nut that requires a
> special tool to remove. Here's a pic:
>
> http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/forcedtojoin/xr250/clutchnut...
>
> Why do manufacturers do this kind of thing? I can't see how this nut
> would cost less than a conventional one.
>
> Over the years I've heard a few theories:
>
> To sell special tools.
> To generate business for dealers.
> To deter hack mechanics.
> Just to F with us.
>
> Anyone know the real reason?
>
> Craig


My guess would be a nut that size with hex flats would overhang onto
the aluminum part, and for some reason that's be bad.

Of course, the underside of that part of the nut could be relieved,
but now that nut's a lot more expensive.

Or, it could be just tradition.

DDave
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On Feb 8, 6:09 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is the same nut that holds the clutch basket and the oil pump of
> my old NX200. I could remove it with a screwdriver and a hammer,
> punching the nut to turn it.

The hammer and punch method would probably work better with the top
end in place. With it off, there's no resistance and I didn't feel
like making or buying a clutch holder tool. Maybe I could have gotten
away with some of the standard tricks for holding the clutch, but I
like to use an impact gun to eliminate the fuss.

> It is easy to make the tool. Find a steel pipe of the right diameter
> and cut teeth the right size of the slots of the nut. Weld a "T"
> handle on the pipe. I thought this was way too much work, so I pounded
> the nut with screwdriver and hammer and replaced for a hex nut.

I thought both of those options were too much work, so I ordered the
right tool. It was $8 and came in the next day. I would imagine that
it's not that easy where you are?

Craig
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On Feb 8, 8:20 am, XR650L_Dave <spamTHIS... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Or, it could be just tradition.

I dunno. The XR6 uses a traditional nut and I think the XR100 does
too. My old CBR600 also used a regular hex nut. Can't remember doing
clutches in any other Hondas off of the top of my head.

Craig
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On Feb 8, 10:23 am, Craig <googlegroupm....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 6:09 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is the same nut that holds the clutch basket and the oil pump of
> > my old NX200. I could remove it with a screwdriver and a hammer,
> > punching the nut to turn it.
>
> The hammer and punch method would probably work better with the top
> end in place. With it off, there's no resistance and I didn't feel
> like making or buying a clutch holder tool. Maybe I could have gotten
> away with some of the standard tricks for holding the clutch, but I
> like to use an impact gun to eliminate the fuss.

A rag stuffed on the cogs will stop the engine from turning...

>
> > It is easy to make the tool. Find a steel pipe of the right diameter
> > and cut teeth the right size of the slots of the nut. Weld a "T"
> > handle on the pipe. I thought this was way too much work, so I pounded
> > the nut with screwdriver and hammer and replaced for a hex nut.
>
> I thought both of those options were too much work, so I ordered the
> right tool. It was $8 and came in the next day. I would imagine that
> it's not that easy where you are?

Easier, I can just go to a machine shop, there are plenty of those
around, some of them are aware of this nut (plenty of bikes with the
same engine, thus, the same nut) and guy would make it in a few
minutes. Would cost slightly more than USD8 though...

btw, my XR250 came from factory with regular, hex, nut on the clutch
basket...

-- Tiago
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On Feb 8, 9:15 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> A rag stuffed on the cogs will stop the engine from turning...

Yep, that's one of the standard tricks. I've heard a horror story or
two about that over the years, but never seen any problems myself. An
impact gun is still much easier.

> Easier, I can just go to a machine shop, there are plenty of those
> around, some of them are aware of this nut (plenty of bikes with the
> same engine, thus, the same nut) and guy would make it in a few
> minutes. Would cost slightly more than USD8 though...

Here it would cost signifcantly more to have a machine shop make a
tool if you walked in off of the street. I have a couple of machinist
friends, but when I can get the tool for $8 and have it delivered the
next day, there's no reason to ask them a favor. Besides, one of them
is also the shop where I bought the tool.

> btw, my XR250 came from factory with regular, hex, nut on the clutch
> basket...

I wonder if the '96+ XR250s here do...

Craig
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On Feb 8, 10:24 am, "HellSickle" <jldnospamee... RemoveThis @comcast.spammer.net>
wrote:

> The real reason is that the factory tool has a much better positive
> engagement, making it much harder for someone to round the corners.

Logical. It would prevent someone from using a socket that "almost
fits."

> Do you know why Phillips head screws were invented?  The tapered slot
> prevented the workers from putting too much torque on the screw & snapping
> it off.  The slots were designed to push the tool out (also rounding the
> slots) before the torque got too high.  Pozi-screws look like a phillips,
> except the slot walls don't have a taper to them.

Yep. Seems like carb manufacturers take it a step further and make the
float bowl screws out of butter. It's remarkable how many rounded
float bowls screws I've run into over the years. Is it that hard to
use the right sized screwdriver?

Craig
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On Feb 8, 10:21 am, "HellSickle" <jldnospamee....DeleteThis@comcast.spammer.net>
wrote:

> I don't know of anyone for whome the 380 would be a "right tight woods
> bike".   Explosive power delivery is not a good combination in the woods..
> The 380 EXC is a sweet bike tho...

My buddy likes it and does very well on it. He's an A enduro rider and
one of the most aggressive riders I've ever seen. The ruts on his
couple-mile practice loop are huge - every corner is brake slide in
and WFO out. I don't know how he manages to ride all day that way, but
he does, and he does it well.

Craig
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"Craig" <googlegroupmail.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d814e064-70ff-4048-b6e7-cdbccf64a164@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 8, 3:41 am, "Joseph Rooney" <ikeroone....DeleteThis@pcmagic.net> wrote:

> > Maybe the same people that make watches. A Crescent wrench across some
> > alligator nose pliers would be too evil.
>
> I've broken at least one set of pliers trying to do that with the
> weird Honda wheel bearing retainer thingamajig from the 80s. The right
> tool for this job was $8 and when I stopped to pick it up I got to

Here's the universal tool for the Honda seal retainer:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1APC1

It also works well for taking the reservoir cap off WP shocks.

> take an enexpected ride on a ktm380sx. It's always fun to ride
> something new. For the record, a 380sx isn't the right tight woods
> bike for me.

I don't know of anyone for whome the 380 would be a "right tight woods
bike". Explosive power delivery is not a good combination in the woods.
The 380 EXC is a sweet bike tho...

-Jeff-
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> Yep. Seems like carb manufacturers take it a step further and make the
> float bowl screws out of butter. It's remarkable how many rounded
> float bowls screws I've run into over the years. Is it that hard to
> use the right sized screwdriver?

No kidding. I destroyed 3 of the 8 screws I took out of the bottom of
my (brand new) FCR carb. None of them involved the driver camming out
either - they all simply failed and turned into rivets. Thank the
lawd for channel-locks.

One of the hot mods for new CRFs is to replace the float screws with
teeny allen-head bolts - I'm doing it.

JayC
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