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.. Lone Wolf

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Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:31 pm
Post subject: Smokin'
Archived from groups: uk>rec>motorcycles>classic (more info?)

Wotcha.

Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well someone had
to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It smokes. It smokes
like it is going out of fashion. This was first thought to be a loose
exhaust valve guide - so an oversized one was made and fitted. It still
smoked. Upon examining the oil tank, I found the standpipe for the oil
return was missing - this would allow oil back into the crankcase when the
engine was stopped. The back was cut out of the oil tank, and a new return
standpipe was made and fitted - then the tank was brazed back up, powder
coated and fitted. It still smoked. The bore and piston were new ( or at
least they looked new, and they measured up OK ). The piston rings were
changed, seeing as we suspected the original ones were those cheap Italian
things that have been flooding the market. It still smoked. Right - lets
take the oil pump out and check it. Seems OK - made sure the pump seating
faces were clean and free from burrs. Put it all back together and left it
overnight with a piece of glass under it. No oil at all was passing back
through the pump - so that ruled out wet sumping. Now the strange thing
is - it only smokes badly when on the side stand - which made me think the
oil was being thrown up by the flywheels and hitting the bore walls. Next
plan - a new piston. A nice new +060" piston, of reputable make , and a
rebore. Now I've put the whole plot back together again, and it still
bloody smokes when on the side stand. I'm running out of things to try. My
other B31 doesn't do this - and I can't see any difference between 'em. (
The smokey one is a 1959 alternator and the other is a 1954 dynamo )

What the Hell is causing this ?

Cheers in advance.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/

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platypus2

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Since: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 3055



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:31 pm
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^..^ Lone Wolf wrote:
> Wotcha.
>
> Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well
> someone had to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It
> smokes. It smokes like it is going out of fashion. This was first
> thought to be a loose exhaust valve guide - so an oversized one was
> made and fitted. It still smoked. Upon examining the oil tank, I
> found the standpipe for the oil return was missing - this would allow
> oil back into the crankcase when the engine was stopped. The back
> was cut out of the oil tank, and a new return standpipe was made and
> fitted - then the tank was brazed back up, powder coated and fitted.
> It still smoked. The bore and piston were new ( or at least they
> looked new, and they measured up OK ). The piston rings were
> changed, seeing as we suspected the original ones were those cheap
> Italian things that have been flooding the market. It still smoked.
> Right - lets take the oil pump out and check it. Seems OK - made
> sure the pump seating faces were clean and free from burrs. Put it
> all back together and left it overnight with a piece of glass under
> it. No oil at all was passing back through the pump - so that ruled
> out wet sumping. Now the strange thing
> is - it only smokes badly when on the side stand - which made me
> think the oil was being thrown up by the flywheels and hitting the
> bore walls. Next plan - a new piston. A nice new +060" piston, of
> reputable make , and a rebore. Now I've put the whole plot back
> together again, and it still bloody smokes when on the side stand.
> I'm running out of things to try. My other B31 doesn't do this - and
> I can't see any difference between 'em. ( The smokey one is a 1959
> alternator and the other is a 1954 dynamo )
>
> What the Hell is causing this ?

Does it smoke from cold, or just after the exhaust has warmed up?

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Pip Luscher

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Since: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 185



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:15 pm
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:36:48 -0000, "^..^ Lone Wolf"
wrote:

>Now I've put the whole plot back together again, and it still
>bloody smokes when on the side stand. I'm running out of things to try. My
>other B31 doesn't do this - and I can't see any difference between 'em. (
>The smokey one is a 1959 alternator and the other is a 1954 dynamo )
>
>What the Hell is causing this ?
>
>Cheers in advance.

Wild guess #1 of thousands based on total ignorance of the bike in
question: blue or black smoke? If black, could it be the float not
floating properly?

Wild guess #2: could it be a breather/oil trap problem?

I won't be offended if you snort and laugh derisively.

--
-Pip
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:25 am
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"platypus" wrote in message


Wotcha.

>> What the Hell is causing this ?
>
> Does it smoke from cold, or just after the exhaust has warmed up?

I can get it to do both. I did think it was 'old oil' in the exhaust, but
I've covered enough miles to burn that out.
Just got back in, and in the two or three minutes it takes to unlock the
garage, it started smoking. The new barrel / piston has now covered a grand
total of ten miles. As far as I can see, the bike doesn't blow any smoke
out whilst being ridden.
Most odd.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf - and "Smokey" the B31
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:31 am
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"Pip Luscher" wrote in message


Wotcha.

>>What the Hell is causing this ?
>>
>>Cheers in advance.
>
> Wild guess #1 of thousands based on total ignorance of the bike in
> question: blue or black smoke? If black, could it be the float not
> floating properly?

Blue - well, white actually.
It is set a tad rich on the pilot jet, and I can get a faint trace of black
smoke when ticking over . . . that is when ticking over and no white smoke
is bellowing forth.

> Wild guess #2: could it be a breather/oil trap problem?

Thought that. Some of the later engines have a timed breather that operates
off the ignition cam spindle - the drive peg has to line up with up with the
left hand screw hole when on TDC. Mine is one of those that doesn't have
this breather. ( bugger ! ) The timing side non-return breather is working
as it should.

> I won't be offended if you snort and laugh derisively.

Indeed not. It's always good to have another straw to grasp at - and, like
in so many cases, it's all too easy to miss the obvious.

Maybe the bike is trying to tell me that a new Pope has been elected ?


--
^..^ Lone Wolf - obscured by smoke
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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Tim7

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Since: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 463



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:28 am
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In message , ^..^ Lone Wolf
writes
>Wotcha.
>
>Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well someone had
>to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It smokes. It smokes
[snip]

Tried new valves as well as the guides? Could the oil in the rocker box
be by-passing the valve on the induction stroke?
--
Tim
http://www.pitfieldbeershop.co.uk/
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R N Robinson

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Since: Feb 15, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:18 pm
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"^..^ Lone Wolf" wrote in message

> Wotcha.
>
> Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well someone
> had to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It smokes. It
> smokes like it is going out of fashion. This was first thought to be a
> loose exhaust valve guide - so an oversized one was made and fitted. It
> still smoked.

> Snip

> What the Hell is causing this ?
>

Worn inlet valve guide?

Ron Robinson
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:45 pm
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"Tim" wrote in message


Wotcha.

> Tried new valves as well as the guides? Could the oil in the rocker box be
> by-passing the valve on the induction stroke?

I couldn't see anything wrong with the valves - maybe if I take the head of
the "good" B31 and swap it.
At least that will prove if it's the head.
<<wanders into garage>>

Cheers.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:46 pm
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"R N Robinson" wrote in
message

Wotcha.

> > What the Hell is causing this ?
>>
>
> Worn inlet valve guide?

I couldn't detect any wear in the inlet guide - but I'm going to swap heads
with my other non-smoking B31 just to see what happens.


Watch this space.

Cheers.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:54 pm
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"^..^ Lone Wolf" wrote in message


Wotcha.

> I couldn't see anything wrong with the valves - maybe if I take the head
> of the "good" B31 and swap it.
> At least that will prove if it's the head.
> <<wanders into garage>>

<<wanders back out of the garage>>

Bugger !

At least I know it's nothing to do with the head.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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Mark

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Since: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 26



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:52 pm
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^..^ Lone Wolf wrote in message

> Wotcha.
>
> Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well someone
had
> to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It smokes. It
smokes
> like it is going out of fashion.
>
>The bore and piston were new ( or at
> least they looked new, and they measured up OK ). The piston rings were
> changed,

Its often said you should run a newly re-bored engine at 4000rpm for the 10
minutes of its life to ensure the rings and bore do not glaze,
Personally I could see this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIzqOmGheBc
happening in reverse with a SO,BSA

;(
-
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TMack

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 20



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:10 am
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"^..^ Lone Wolf" wrote in message

> Wotcha.
>
> Here's a nice little problem for you. I bought a BSA B31 ( well
> someone had to ), all very jolly apart from it has a nasty habit. It
> smokes. It smokes like it is going out of fashion. This was first
> thought to be a loose exhaust valve guide - so an oversized one was
> made and fitted. It still smoked. Upon examining the oil tank, I
> found the standpipe for the oil return was missing - this would allow
> oil back into the crankcase when the engine was stopped. The back
> was cut out of the oil tank, and a new return standpipe was made and
> fitted - then the tank was brazed back up, powder coated and fitted.
> It still smoked. The bore and piston were new ( or at least they
> looked new, and they measured up OK ). The piston rings were
> changed, seeing as we suspected the original ones were those cheap
> Italian things that have been flooding the market. It still smoked.
> Right - lets take the oil pump out and check it. Seems OK - made
> sure the pump seating faces were clean and free from burrs. Put it
> all back together and left it overnight with a piece of glass under
> it. No oil at all was passing back through the pump - so that ruled
> out wet sumping. Now the strange thing
> is - it only smokes badly when on the side stand - which made me
> think the oil was being thrown up by the flywheels and hitting the
> bore walls. Next plan - a new piston. A nice new +060" piston, of
> reputable make , and a rebore. Now I've put the whole plot back
> together again, and it still bloody smokes when on the side stand.
> I'm running out of things to try. My other B31 doesn't do this - and
> I can't see any difference between 'em. ( The smokey one is a 1959
> alternator and the other is a 1954 dynamo )
>
> What the Hell is causing this ?
>
> Cheers in advance.

Very wild guess - is oil from the primary chaincase somehow getting into the
crankccase?

--
Tony
'04 XL1200C, '95 LS650 (in bits - being rebuilt), CB450 Shitehawk
(winter hack) OMF#24
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.. Lone Wolf

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Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:11 am
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"TMack" <tonyREMOVEmackin_at_bigfoot.com> wrote in message


Wotcha.

>> What the Hell is causing this ?
>>
>> Cheers in advance.
>
> Very wild guess - is oil from the primary chaincase somehow getting into
> the
> crankccase?

I've been running it with no oil in the primary side - in fact without a
primary case on at all whilst I've been buggering about with the alternator.

It's not as if this prevents the bike from being used - but it's totally
screwing my head up as to why I can't stop it from happening. I thought I
was fairly good when it came to sorting BSA pre-unit singles, but this one's
giving me a good run for my money. I can't think of anything else to change
.. . . . apart from the whole bloody engine.

Cheers.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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.. Lone Wolf

External


Since: May 27, 2004
Posts: 151



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:11 am
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"Mark" wrote in message


Wotcha..

> Its often said you should run a newly re-bored engine at 4000rpm for the
> 10
> minutes of its life to ensure the rings and bore do not glaze,

With a SO,BSA this is known as "running out" Wink

> Personally I could see this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIzqOmGheBc
> happening in reverse with a SO,BSA

Ooh - I like that, and so will my mate who runs a Starfire.
Strangely enough, a rather special "Starfire" will be on show at Malvern
this weekend. It has a Desmo head, amongst other things, and goes rather
well.

Cheers.


--
^..^ Lone Wolf
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/
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Tim7

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Since: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 463



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:11 am
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In message , ^..^ Lone Wolf
writes
>
>"^..^ Lone Wolf" wrote in message
>
>
>Wotcha.
>
>> I couldn't see anything wrong with the valves - maybe if I take the head
>> of the "good" B31 and swap it.
>> At least that will prove if it's the head.
>> <<wanders into garage>>
>
><<wanders back out of the garage>>
>
>Bugger !
>
>At least I know it's nothing to do with the head.
>
>
Strike one suggestion.
--
Tim
http://www.pitfieldbeershop.co.uk/
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