Schuey 5 seconds off the pace

"Mark N" <menusbaum DeleteThis @NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13j5bi0nmsc4be3@corp.supernews.com...
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>>
>> "Mark N" wrote
>>>
>>> It was interesting to hear Schwantz' comments on Spies after their laps,
>>> talking about his height and weight and whether or not that might be an
>>> issue. I guess it shows, even though no one talks about it much, these
>>> guys are quite conscious of the size limitation that exists in GP today.
>>> At least under the current rules...
>>
>> Did they say there was a size limitation, or is that just your
>> interpretation?
>
> Specifically what Kev said: "He's a little on the tall, lanky side, but
> from a weight perspective he's okay", and the okay wasn't that convincing.
> That all sounded a little doubtful coming from a guy who's promoting Spies
> in GP, and he certainly wouldn't have been talking like that if size was
> effectively no issue in MotoGP, he certainly wouldn't be saying anything
> like that if he was talking about WSB, or MotoGP four or five years ago.

The MGP site said Schwantz's quotes came early in the session. Another
article (the one mainly about MS) said that Spies put in a substantial
amount of laps, joined for a selection of them by Schwantz. So it looks like
Spies was able to get in a decent number of laps, depending who else was
riding in the same sessions.

"Mark N" <menusbaum RemoveThis @NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13j5am1afti3q49@corp.supernews.com...
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>> "Mark N" wrote
>>> You've got that right, and much of that has to be traction control.
>>> Apparently on the Ducati one can just whack the throttle open to the
>>> stop coming out of a corner and the electronics do the rest. It would
>>> be interesting to see what he might have done on one of the Japanese
>>> machines, particularly the Honda. Gets a little tougher when you have
>>> to manage the traction with your wrist, at least in parts of the pwer
>>> band.
>>
>> First, it's interesting that MS's bike was fitted with steel rotors,
>> considering that every bike racer who has gotten to drive a F1 car has
>> commented on how much more braking force there is on the car. Unless
>> Ducati were fearful that MS would overlook the warmup needed to power up
>> the carbon rotors, why would they opt for steel? And it's not MS isn't
>> used to bringing brakes up to operating temperature. I wonder if he used
>> steel rotors in '05?
>
> My impression is that a lot of guys tried the bikes that day, journalists,
> etc., and one would expect that they'd use steel rotors since it takes
> time to adjust to the carbons.

That makes sense, except for two things (see below).


> I seriously doubt that it made a lot of difference, and Schu may have even
> been faster because of them, not like he had days to work up to speed.

Of the 58 laps he rode, I doubt that was the original plan, But as he got
faster and faster, it no doubt became the buzz of the event. It garnered
Ducati unexpected, extraordinary publicity, so I assume that they kept
filling the gas tank and giving him fresh tires as long as he was interested
in riding and continued to get faster. The MGP site says he had an extended
session on the track from 1 pm to the end of the day, so it doesn't sound
like he was swapping places with other riders on the same bike. And that's
why I'm surprised they didn't throw on the carbon rotors, except that
changing to the carbons would mess with his brake markers (although they
probably never stayed in the same place for very long anyway).


And I'm not quite yet
> convinced that the reported time is actually correct - it doesn't seem all
> that widely reported, I haven't yet seen anything exact,

There are many sources claiming a 1:37.89, but they are all probably
drinking Kool-Aid from the same pitcher. Incidentally, I did read that he
said that in addition to buzzing aroung on his Harleys, he also rides
supermoto in Italy.

and
> remember that 33.20 that McCoy supposedly did on the Ilmor at Valencia
> last year at this test? A lot of people ate that one up, too. The MotoGP
> site also reports him doing 39s, which seems more plausible.

Given the unexpectedness of the 1:37, of course it sounds more plausible.
But the Moto GP site claims a 37, as well.

>
>> "Apparently" in Markspeak means "I'll pull this out of my sphincter and
>> use it to support my statement". Where has it been shown (other than
>> possibly fuel management) that Ducati is head and shoulders above the
>> Japanese manufacturers in terms of electronics (traction control)? Is
>> this part of your explanation for Stoner/Ducati winning the championship?
>> It certainly didn't carry over to Capirossi's bike.
>
> Well, I recently read in Mamola's column in RRX that their traction
> control is much more broadly applied that some of the others, and part of
> Stoner's success may have been that he is so young and inexperienced on
> the big bikes that he is able to get over the mental hurdle of trusting
> the system fully and just going for it. I'm a little skeptical about that,
> but one certainly reads plenty about how the outsourced Ducati system was
> the best this year.

But we can only speculate on who "some of the others" are. And that doesn't
sound like an across the board Japanese shortcoming at any rate. As for
Stoner's success and relative trust, he's virtually identical in age and MGP
bike experience as Pedrosa.

I'll sort of agree on the outsourcing notariety, but let me give you a
bicycling equivalent. After Armstrong started winning the Tour de France,
writers and tv announcers talked about his dedication and preparation,
including riding the roads and courses in the spring (for familiarization
purposes) that would be raced on later in the year in the Tour. The writers
and announcers made it appear that this was revolutionary, and no one else
bothered to do it. Year after year they would spew that line, glorifying
Armstrong, as if no one else did the same thing. The fact is that all the
top riders scout out the courses and there are many races that use the same
courses in different events. It's nothing new. But because Armstrong was now
this legend, scouting out roads became an identifying trademark for him that
the writers led people to believe was something unique.

>
> Of course if I say anything you don't agree with, which seems like pretty
> much everything I say, I must have pulled it out of my ass, right?

No. I think there are certain viewpoints that we differ on, but hardly
everything, but on those I express my opinion. Hell Mark, it's what you
want. Otherwise it would just be people saying, "Yup" and how boring is
that? I don't just argue for argument's sake. I have too many other, more
important things in life. As for your "Apparently on the Ducati one can just
whack the throttle open to the stop coming out of a corner and the
electronics do the rest." comment, I didn't feel that the rest of your
paragraph supported it, for reasons I have already mentioned.

>
>>> As for Schumacher, he's hardly a big guy
>>
>> But he's virtually the prototype for your vision of the optimal rider
>
> Which doesn't make him big, it makes him pretty average.
>
>>> (see the picture of him with Berger at Soup?)
>>
>> ...who looks like a 6'1" or 6'2" fat middle aged dude who hasn't been in
>> competition for 10 years. So what?
>
> Might look like that, but what if he's only 5-11 and 180 pounds or so?

I don't know about that. MS's stats listed him as 5'8". It looks like Berger
isn't standing up very straight and I'd guess he's about 4" taller than MS
in that picture. Even at 5'11", I'd put him at over 200 with that "good
life" belly.


> He was a pretty damned good F1 driver, and how many of those guys have
> been really big?

And that's important to this thread, how? Talk about not agreeing with
anything somebody says...


Schu is about the same weight as Hayden, and Nick's not
> a very big guy at all.

That's a convenient way for you to express it. In terms of your 'size
limitations' I think you'd say differently. But that's another post in this
thread.


>
>>> and is quite used to the video game style of racing
>>
>> Likewise for Speez.
>
> Not nearly to the same extent. An F1 Ferrari is infinitely more
> sophisticated than a Yosh SB, I have to believe. But having used the SB
> traction control probably gave him some sense of what the GP bike would be
> like.

I'd say far more things translate for Spies than MS.

>
>>> He's also been on the Ducati before
>>
>> Yeah, an enormously different version and was only able to lap within 15
>> sec of the MGP boys.
>
> Still, he's been on it, and if one only has a limited number of laps it
> probably pays off to have had something of the same experience before.

Sure, but the HP of the 990 (with probably less sophisticated electronics)
vs. the current 800? Also two tracks that are decidedly dissimilar? And As I
mentioned in an earlier post, I don't know if having competitive familiarity
would be beneficial to MS. It may have messed with his braking points at
Monza.

>
>>> and seemed quite focused on making his best time.
>>
>> Again, in agreement. He is definitely no punter.
>>
>> What hasn't been remarked upon is that he rode 58 laps. I find that
>> highly noteworthy, almost double the race distance. Surely most of the
>> laps didn't break 1:40, but even so shows incredible physical and mental
>> stamina for someone who is essentially a hobbyist at the sport and was
>> subjected to a massive learning curve. And who knows how clear the track
>> was? If he did most of his laps during "celebrity hour", then the
>> disparity in speeds between all the riders must have been havoc to
>> calculate and anticipate.
>
> Didn't realize he had that many laps, that's almost as much as some of
> these guys get in in a testing day. Sure seems like they were giving him
> every chance to do a very fast time.

Like I said, it was a publicity coup.


>
>>> But carving off those last few seconds, that
>>> would be very tough, even thouigh he's an exceptionally skilled racer
>>> obviously with the right feel.
>>
>> I'd say that if he had half a season on a Stoner quality bike, he'd be
>> battling for a front row grid position. Not necessarily _on_ the front
>> row, but a contender for it. Who knows what settings he used. Just
>> because he's closest in weight to Barros (of the riders in the Ducati
>> garages) doesn't mean that Barros' settings are well suited for MS's
>> riding style (or how it would evolve).
>
> I kind of doubt it. Mamola's comment was something like, "if he was ten
> years younger, then in a couple years of racing he probably could get up
> to speed", which I think reflects what it takes to knock off those last
> five, six seconds. I mean, give any of the better riders in the AMA four
> hours of testing that bike and how many couldn't do a 37 or whatever? And
> I'm not just talking about factory SB guys, they'd all be lower than that.

Note that I said qualify, not race. I think the additional skills for actual
racing would take years to develop. And yeah, if you threw any of the top
ten or so riders on the Ducati and gave them 4 hours, they SHOULD be able to
do a 37. Hell, even Kurtis managed a 35 in FP1 on the KR bike. How effective
do you think MS was in four hours at contributing to fine-tuning the setup?


>
> Plus Schu is very used to the Bridgestones...
>
>> How he'd handle fairing bashing would be interesting. Based on his
>> driving behavior, you would think he'd relish it, but without a chassis
>> to protect him, it could be different story. However, it's probably a
>> moot point. It's unlikely that he has the desire to throw caution
>> competely to the wind at this point of his life in an endeavor as risky
>> as MGP. He has intimated as much.
>
> Even with the desire, there's now way, a guy who's 38 and has never raced
> bikes before just couldn't get there, I don't think, no matter how gifted
> or experienced at racing in general. Too little, too late...

Nothing to argue with there.