Schuey 5 seconds off the pace

Name: Michael Schumacher

Height: 1.74m
Weight: 68kg

No ballast, I guess.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:08:59 -0800, just bob wrote:

> http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/63819
>
> Not bad!

If the reported times are correct, less than 3 seconds slower than Ben
Spies, who also tested the same day.

Spies: 1:34.8 Schumacher: ~1:37
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

Carl Worthlist wrote:
> Name: Michael Schumacher
> Height: 1.74m
> Weight: 68kg
>
> No ballast, I guess.

No contribution once again, I guess.

It was interesting to hear Schwantz' comments on Spies after their laps,
talking about his height and weight and whether or not that might be an
issue. I guess it shows, even though no one talks about it much, these
guys are quite conscious of the size limitation that exists in GP today.
At least under the current rules...
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"Kuskokwim" <nospam.DeleteThis@ak.net> wrote in message
news:4q0ud0zbrt3j.1v513hbmyyq6t.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:08:59 -0800, just bob wrote:
>
>> http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/63819
>>
>> Not bad!
>
> If the reported times are correct, less than 3 seconds slower than Ben
> Spies, who also tested the same day.
>
> Spies: 1:34.8 Schumacher: ~1:37

Makes Schumacher's times even more impressive given his size and lack of
carbon brakes. Scarily, this sounds like F1 where the cars have apparently
become so easy to drive a kid from lower ranks gets in and is immediately on
or near the pace of regulars.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"Mark N" wrote:
> No contribution once again, I guess.

At least Carl understands that brevity is the soul of wit. The millions of
dead bytes to your credit are mostly for the redneck observation that you
don't like "EuroFags", probably a piece of Larry Craig-esque self loathing.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"just bob" wrote:
> "Kuskokwim" <nos... DeleteThis @ak.net> wrote
> > If the reported times are correct, less than 3 seconds slower than Ben
> > Spies, who also tested the same day.
>
> > Spies: 1:34.8 Schumacher: ~1:37

It sounds like Spies only got to do about 10 laps durring Celebrity
Hour and not a full test, which may come up at Sepang shortly. But
that his times were comparable to guys like de Angelis and Dovizioso
after a full day on a track they know like the back of their hand does
suggest his potential.

> Makes Schumacher's times even more impressive given his size and lack of
> carbon brakes. Scarily, this sounds like F1 where the cars have apparently
> become so easy to drive a kid from lower ranks gets in and is immediately on
> or near the pace of regulars.

You've got that right, and much of that has to be traction control.
Apparently on the Ducati one can just whack the throttle open to the
stop coming out of a corner and the electronics do the rest. It would
be interesting to see what he might have done on one of the Japanese
machines, particularly the Honda. Gets a little tougher when you have
to manage the traction with your wrist, at least in parts of the pwer
band.

As for Schumacher, he's hardly a big guy (see the picture of him with
Berger at Soup?) and is quite used to the video game style of racing
from F1. He's also been on the Ducati before, and seemed quite focused
on making his best time. But carving off those last few seconds, that
would be very tough, even thouigh he's an exceptionally skilled racer
obviously with the right feel.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

just bob <kilbyfan@aoldotcom.?.invalid> Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:10:02
>Makes Schumacher's times even more impressive given his size and lack of
>carbon brakes. Scarily, this sounds like F1 where the cars have apparently
>become so easy to drive a kid from lower ranks gets in and is immediately on
>or near the pace of regulars.

The latest Performance Bikes have a picture of Schuey talking to Loris
on the grid. With the caption, LC: F1 cars are for people too scared to
race bikes. MS: I know.

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Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

On Nov 7, 11:08 am, "just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote:
> http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/63819
>
> Not bad!
I do remember an interview with him some years ago (about 4) and he
mentioned that he owned a Ducati (996?) and that it scared the poop
out of him. I think he meant on the road.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"Mark N" <menusbaum RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1194465458.378303.8340@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> "just bob" wrote:
>> "Kuskokwim" <nos... RemoveThis @ak.net> wrote
>> > If the reported times are correct, less than 3 seconds slower than Ben
>> > Spies, who also tested the same day.
>>
>> > Spies: 1:34.8 Schumacher: ~1:37
>
> It sounds like Spies only got to do about 10 laps durring Celebrity
> Hour and not a full test, which may come up at Sepang shortly. But
> that his times were comparable to guys like de Angelis and Dovizioso
> after a full day on a track they know like the back of their hand does
> suggest his potential.

No argument there.


>
>> Makes Schumacher's times even more impressive given his size and lack of
>> carbon brakes. Scarily, this sounds like F1 where the cars have
>> apparently
>> become so easy to drive a kid from lower ranks gets in and is immediately
>> on
>> or near the pace of regulars.
>
> You've got that right, and much of that has to be traction control.
> Apparently on the Ducati one can just whack the throttle open to the
> stop coming out of a corner and the electronics do the rest. It would
> be interesting to see what he might have done on one of the Japanese
> machines, particularly the Honda. Gets a little tougher when you have
> to manage the traction with your wrist, at least in parts of the pwer
> band.

First, it's interesting that MS's bike was fitted with steel rotors,
considering that every bike racer who has gotten to drive a F1 car has
commented on how much more braking force there is on the car. Unless Ducati
were fearful that MS would overlook the warmup needed to power up the carbon
rotors, why would they opt for steel? And it's not MS isn't used to bringing
brakes up to operating temperature. I wonder if he used steel rotors in '05?

"Apparently" in Markspeak means "I'll pull this out of my sphincter and use
it to support my statement". Where has it been shown (other than possibly
fuel management) that Ducati is head and shoulders above the Japanese
manufacturers in terms of electronics (traction control)? Is this part of
your explanation for Stoner/Ducati winning the championship? It certainly
didn't carry over to Capirossi's bike.


>
> As for Schumacher, he's hardly a big guy

But he's virtually the prototype for your vision of the optimal rider


> (see the picture of him with Berger at Soup?)

....who looks like a 6'1" or 6'2" fat middle aged dude who hasn't been in
competition for 10 years. So what?


> and is quite used to the video game style of racing

Likewise for Speez.


> He's also been on the Ducati before

Yeah, an enormously different version and was only able to lap within 15 sec
of the MGP boys.


> and seemed quite focused on making his best time.

Again, in agreement. He is definitely no punter.

What hasn't been remarked upon is that he rode 58 laps. I find that highly
noteworthy, almost double the race distance. Surely most of the laps didn't
break 1:40, but even so shows incredible physical and mental stamina for
someone who is essentially a hobbyist at the sport and was subjected to a
massive learning curve. And who knows how clear the track was? If he did
most of his laps during "celebrity hour", then the disparity in speeds
between all the riders must have been havoc to calculate and anticipate.


> But carving off those last few seconds, that
> would be very tough, even thouigh he's an exceptionally skilled racer
> obviously with the right feel.

I'd say that if he had half a season on a Stoner quality bike, he'd be
battling for a front row grid position. Not necessarily _on_ the front row,
but a contender for it. Who knows what settings he used. Just because he's
closest in weight to Barros (of the riders in the Ducati garages) doesn't
mean that Barros' settings are well suited for MS's riding style (or how it
would evolve).

How he'd handle fairing bashing would be interesting. Based on his driving
behavior, you would think he'd relish it, but without a chassis to protect
him, it could be different story. However, it's probably a moot point. It's
unlikely that he has the desire to throw caution competely to the wind at
this point of his life in an endeavor as risky as MGP. He has intimated as
much.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

Carl Sundquist wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> You've got that right, and much of that has to be traction control.
>> Apparently on the Ducati one can just whack the throttle open to the
>> stop coming out of a corner and the electronics do the rest. It would
>> be interesting to see what he might have done on one of the Japanese
>> machines, particularly the Honda. Gets a little tougher when you have
>> to manage the traction with your wrist, at least in parts of the pwer
>> band.
>
> First, it's interesting that MS's bike was fitted with steel rotors,
> considering that every bike racer who has gotten to drive a F1 car has
> commented on how much more braking force there is on the car. Unless
> Ducati were fearful that MS would overlook the warmup needed to power up
> the carbon rotors, why would they opt for steel? And it's not MS isn't
> used to bringing brakes up to operating temperature. I wonder if he used
> steel rotors in '05?

My impression is that a lot of guys tried the bikes that day,
journalists, etc., and one would expect that they'd use steel rotors
since it takes time to adjust to the carbons. I seriously doubt that it
made a lot of difference, and Schu may have even been faster because of
them, not like he had days to work up to speed. And I'm not quite yet
convinced that the reported time is actually correct - it doesn't seem
all that widely reported, I haven't yet seen anything exact, and
remember that 33.20 that McCoy supposedly did on the Ilmor at Valencia
last year at this test? A lot of people ate that one up, too. The MotoGP
site also reports him doing 39s, which seems more plausible.

> "Apparently" in Markspeak means "I'll pull this out of my sphincter and
> use it to support my statement". Where has it been shown (other than
> possibly fuel management) that Ducati is head and shoulders above the
> Japanese manufacturers in terms of electronics (traction control)? Is
> this part of your explanation for Stoner/Ducati winning the
> championship? It certainly didn't carry over to Capirossi's bike.

Well, I recently read in Mamola's column in RRX that their traction
control is much more broadly applied that some of the others, and part
of Stoner's success may have been that he is so young and inexperienced
on the big bikes that he is able to get over the mental hurdle of
trusting the system fully and just going for it. I'm a little skeptical
about that, but one certainly reads plenty about how the outsourced
Ducati system was the best this year.

Of course if I say anything you don't agree with, which seems like
pretty much everything I say, I must have pulled it out of my ass, right?

>> As for Schumacher, he's hardly a big guy
>
> But he's virtually the prototype for your vision of the optimal rider

Which doesn't make him big, it makes him pretty average.

>> (see the picture of him with Berger at Soup?)
>
> ...who looks like a 6'1" or 6'2" fat middle aged dude who hasn't been in
> competition for 10 years. So what?

Might look like that, but what if he's only 5-11 and 180 pounds or so?
He was a pretty damned good F1 driver, and how many of those guys have
been really big? Schu is about the same weight as Hayden, and Nick's not
a very big guy at all.

>> and is quite used to the video game style of racing
>
> Likewise for Speez.

Not nearly to the same extent. An F1 Ferrari is infinitely more
sophisticated than a Yosh SB, I have to believe. But having used the SB
traction control probably gave him some sense of what the GP bike would
be like.

>> He's also been on the Ducati before
>
> Yeah, an enormously different version and was only able to lap within 15
> sec of the MGP boys.

Still, he's been on it, and if one only has a limited number of laps it
probably pays off to have had something of the same experience before.

>> and seemed quite focused on making his best time.
>
> Again, in agreement. He is definitely no punter.
>
> What hasn't been remarked upon is that he rode 58 laps. I find that
> highly noteworthy, almost double the race distance. Surely most of the
> laps didn't break 1:40, but even so shows incredible physical and mental
> stamina for someone who is essentially a hobbyist at the sport and was
> subjected to a massive learning curve. And who knows how clear the track
> was? If he did most of his laps during "celebrity hour", then the
> disparity in speeds between all the riders must have been havoc to
> calculate and anticipate.

Didn't realize he had that many laps, that's almost as much as some of
these guys get in in a testing day. Sure seems like they were giving him
every chance to do a very fast time.

>> But carving off those last few seconds, that
>> would be very tough, even thouigh he's an exceptionally skilled racer
>> obviously with the right feel.
>
> I'd say that if he had half a season on a Stoner quality bike, he'd be
> battling for a front row grid position. Not necessarily _on_ the front
> row, but a contender for it. Who knows what settings he used. Just
> because he's closest in weight to Barros (of the riders in the Ducati
> garages) doesn't mean that Barros' settings are well suited for MS's
> riding style (or how it would evolve).

I kind of doubt it. Mamola's comment was something like, "if he was ten
years younger, then in a couple years of racing he probably could get up
to speed", which I think reflects what it takes to knock off those last
five, six seconds. I mean, give any of the better riders in the AMA four
hours of testing that bike and how many couldn't do a 37 or whatever?
And I'm not just talking about factory SB guys, they'd all be lower than
that.

Plus Schu is very used to the Bridgestones...

> How he'd handle fairing bashing would be interesting. Based on his
> driving behavior, you would think he'd relish it, but without a chassis
> to protect him, it could be different story. However, it's probably a
> moot point. It's unlikely that he has the desire to throw caution
> competely to the wind at this point of his life in an endeavor as risky
> as MGP. He has intimated as much.

Even with the desire, there's now way, a guy who's 38 and has never
raced bikes before just couldn't get there, I don't think, no matter how
gifted or experienced at racing in general. Too little, too late...
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:pRwYi.1953$rN1.1537@newsfe18.lga...
>
> First, it's interesting that MS's bike was fitted with steel rotors,
> considering that every bike racer who has gotten to drive a F1 car has
> commented on how much more braking force there is on the car. Unless
> Ducati were fearful that MS would overlook the warmup needed to power up
> the carbon rotors, why would they opt for steel? And it's not MS isn't
> used to bringing brakes up to operating temperature. I wonder if he used
> steel rotors in '05?

Seeing as a F1 car's braking markers are _much_ closer to the apex of the
bends than a motorcycle's markers, it may have actually been more to MS's
benefit to ride on a track where he is competitively unfamiliar. He had no
mental pre-sets on braking markers as he would on a track like Catalunya.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

"Mark N" <menusbaum.DeleteThis@NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13j3pikogrev992@corp.supernews.com...
>
> It was interesting to hear Schwantz' comments on Spies after their laps,
> talking about his height and weight and whether or not that might be an
> issue. I guess it shows, even though no one talks about it much, these
> guys are quite conscious of the size limitation that exists in GP today.
> At least under the current rules...

Did they say there was a size limitation, or is that just your
interpretation?

I found Soup's poll www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=ms1107 results
interesting that there wasn't much difference in the number of people who
said that electronics 'dumb down' an MGP bike to where anyone can ride it
and those who voted to remove electronics from bikes (I voted for the
latter). Both questions really say the same thing, just phrased differently.
 >> Stay informed about: Schuey 5 seconds off the pace 

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> "Mark N" wrote
>>
>> It was interesting to hear Schwantz' comments on Spies after their
>> laps, talking about his height and weight and whether or not that
>> might be an issue. I guess it shows, even though no one talks about it
>> much, these guys are quite conscious of the size limitation that
>> exists in GP today. At least under the current rules...
>
> Did they say there was a size limitation, or is that just your
> interpretation?

Specifically what Kev said: "He's a little on the tall, lanky side, but
from a weight perspective he's okay", and the okay wasn't that
convincing. That all sounded a little doubtful coming from a guy who's
promoting Spies in GP, and he certainly wouldn't have been talking like
that if size was effectively no issue in MotoGP, he certainly wouldn't
be saying anything like that if he was talking about WSB, or MotoGP four
or five years ago.

> I found Soup's poll www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=ms1107
> results interesting that there wasn't much difference in the number of
> people who said that electronics 'dumb down' an MGP bike to where anyone
> can ride it and those who voted to remove electronics from bikes (I
> voted for the latter). Both questions really say the same thing, just
> phrased differently.

I voted for the former, mostly because it's an observation of the
reality rather than theoretical notions on rule changes that Dorna isn't
all that likely to want to make. I just don't think that Dorna will do
anything that risks them losing control over who is good and who isn't
like today's machines allow. They got totally bent about the tire thing
this year, and I think more because Rossi and Pedrosa wre losing than
that the racing was boring, and yet weren't really able to get the tire
factories to change the rules much. If the bike OEMs want to keep the
electronic development in GP for R&D reasons, then it would get much
tougher for Dorna to force change. And they run the risk of having their
125/250 midgets drop behind the SB guys again in the process.

But, yes, two sides of the same coin.
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