SORN petition

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:10:29 GMT, Pip Luscher
<pips.computer.TakeThisOut@spammers.foad.ntlworld.com>
wrote in <sk1vp39kmehm0596o0erplb09vm09aiodd.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:49:59 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp.TakeThisOut@ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
> wrote:

>>Now....
>>people who insist on using fog lights when not foggy.

> These should be shot. No mercy.

I came up with a word for them Elsewhere a little while ago -- fog-wits.

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
GSX600F, RG250WD "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO#003, 005
WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon)
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:55:18 +0000 (UTC), "Dr Ivan D. Reid"
<Ivan.Reid.DeleteThis@brunel.ac.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:10:29 GMT, Pip Luscher
><pips.computer.DeleteThis@spammers.foad.ntlworld.com>
> wrote in <sk1vp39kmehm0596o0erplb09vm09aiodd.DeleteThis@4ax.com>:
>> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:49:59 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp.DeleteThis@ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>
>>>Now....
>>>people who insist on using fog lights when not foggy.
>
>> These should be shot. No mercy.
>
> I came up with a word for them Elsewhere a little while ago -- fog-wits.

<adds to personal dictionary>


--
-Pip
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

YTC#1 wrote:

> But, I disagree that once a SORN is declared it remains off road. A
> scrote will not be bothered, you may sell it and not declare the sale
> etc etc.

Precisely - this seems to be more about "I'm too lazy to remember" rather
than any pertinent benefit to the updating of the UK vehicle stock.


> Now....

> people who have reg plates that spell "WANKER".

Oh yes.

--
Simon
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 20:52:26 +0000, Pete Franklin wrote:

>
> "Pip Luscher" <pips.computer.DeleteThis@spammers.foad.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:sk1vp39kmehm0596o0erplb09vm09aiodd@4ax.com...
>>>Now....
>>>people who insist on using fog lights when not foggy.
>>
>> These should be shot. No mercy.
>>
> I'd really rather we tortured them first...

We could make them fill out everyone elses SORNs .....
--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GS550, GSX250, 750SS
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
*(Emails to the posted address will be ignored)*
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
Get the Software http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:12:06 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:29:37 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp DeleteThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:12:30 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>> On or around Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:49:59 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp DeleteThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
>>> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>>But, I disagree that once a SORN is declared it remains off road. A scrote
>>>>will not be bothered, you may sell it and not declare the sale etc etc.
>>>
>>> If you sell it and don't declare it, then anything the scrote does is traced
>>> back to you... no thank you...
>>>
>>>>I keep 2 off road, I get a reminder, I SORN them, I don't forget. I keep 2
>>>>cars and 3 bikes on the road, I get reminders, I tax them, I don't forget.
>>>>I have no issue with SORN.
>>>
>>> I have no issue with SORN, but it still only needs declaring once per
>>> vehicle/SORN period.
>>
>>And each SORN period has been declared as 12months by the government
>
> which is the stupid bit...
>>
>>A lot of people complain about SORN because the "forget" to do it and then
>>get upset when they are fined. Just like they "forget" they are speeding,
>>"forget" that there are yellow lines under their wheels etc
>
> that's not the main issue, really - I don't really mind paying 40 quid for
> being so careless as to forget to renew it, seeing as I know the rules.
> However, there's still no point in it needing renewing - I've not seen
> anyone advance a good reason for renewing it annually, or any credible
> benefit from so doing.

Ooo, apart from reminding someone they have sold the machine, and making
sure it has been declared/registered ?


--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GS550, GSX250, 750SS
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
*(Emails to the posted address will be ignored)*
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
Get the Software http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:25:11 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp RemoveThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
wrote:

>> that's not the main issue, really - I don't really mind paying 40 quid for
>> being so careless as to forget to renew it, seeing as I know the rules.
>> However, there's still no point in it needing renewing - I've not seen
>> anyone advance a good reason for renewing it annually, or any credible
>> benefit from so doing.
>
>Ooo, apart from reminding someone they have sold the machine, and making
>sure it has been declared/registered ?

Yes, but declaring it sold/tranferred is a one-off form to fill in
which the seller has good incentive to remember. After that it's not
the seller's (more accurately, the former keeper's) problem. SORN
just goes on and on and on....

--
-Pip
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On or around 4 Feb 2008 08:43:10 GMT, "sweller" <sweller.TakeThisOut@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> But, I disagree that once a SORN is declared it remains off road. A
>> scrote will not be bothered, you may sell it and not declare the sale
>> etc etc.
>
>Precisely - this seems to be more about "I'm too lazy to remember" rather
>than any pertinent benefit to the updating of the UK vehicle stock.

it's only meant to be partly about that. I think it unreasonable to fine me
40 quid for forgetting, but then I could avoid that easily. However, it's
also about the waste of resources inherent in them sending out reminders
(which they mostly do) and processing the returned forms. OK, if it's done
online, chances are it uses less resource, but how many do that?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:35:16 +0000, Pip Luscher wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:25:11 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp.DeleteThis@ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> that's not the main issue, really - I don't really mind paying 40 quid for
>>> being so careless as to forget to renew it, seeing as I know the rules.
>>> However, there's still no point in it needing renewing - I've not seen
>>> anyone advance a good reason for renewing it annually, or any credible
>>> benefit from so doing.
>>
>>Ooo, apart from reminding someone they have sold the machine, and making
>>sure it has been declared/registered ?
>
> Yes, but declaring it sold/tranferred is a one-off form to fill in
> which the seller has good incentive to remember. After that it's not
> the seller's (more accurately, the former keeper's) problem. SORN
> just goes on and on and on....

So, bloke A sells bike to bloke B.
Neither bloke A nor block B bother to do the right thing and get it
unSORNed, bloke B uses it off road etc (but is pikey and uses the road to
get to off road and gets a speeding ticket (camera).

Bloke A now gets a NIP, and a fine for not unSORNing.

So, a yearly reminder would be handy here ?


--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GS550, GSX250, 750SS
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
*(Emails to the posted address will be ignored)*
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
Get the Software http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:55:25 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around 4 Feb 2008 08:43:10 GMT, "sweller" <sweller.TakeThisOut@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>> But, I disagree that once a SORN is declared it remains off road. A
>>> scrote will not be bothered, you may sell it and not declare the sale
>>> etc etc.
>>
>>Precisely - this seems to be more about "I'm too lazy to remember" rather
>>than any pertinent benefit to the updating of the UK vehicle stock.
>
> it's only meant to be partly about that. I think it unreasonable to fine me
> 40 quid for forgetting, but then I could avoid that easily. However, it's

So, forgetting to stick to the speed limit should not be a fine either ?
Or why not have an MOT last for life, why should that be yearly ?

> also about the waste of resources inherent in them sending out reminders

Even by computer standars, thats not a lot of resource.

> (which they mostly do) and processing the returned forms. OK, if it's
> done online, chances are it uses less resource, but how many do that?

The offline forms are more than likely scanned, just like letters for
postcodes.


--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GS550, GSX250, 750SS
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
*(Emails to the posted address will be ignored)*
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
Get the Software http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On or around Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:26:19 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp RemoveThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:35:16 +0000, Pip Luscher wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:25:11 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp RemoveThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> that's not the main issue, really - I don't really mind paying 40 quid for
>>>> being so careless as to forget to renew it, seeing as I know the rules.
>>>> However, there's still no point in it needing renewing - I've not seen
>>>> anyone advance a good reason for renewing it annually, or any credible
>>>> benefit from so doing.
>>>
>>>Ooo, apart from reminding someone they have sold the machine, and making
>>>sure it has been declared/registered ?
>>
>> Yes, but declaring it sold/tranferred is a one-off form to fill in
>> which the seller has good incentive to remember. After that it's not
>> the seller's (more accurately, the former keeper's) problem. SORN
>> just goes on and on and on....
>
>So, bloke A sells bike to bloke B.
>Neither bloke A nor block B bother to do the right thing and get it
>unSORNed, bloke B uses it off road etc (but is pikey and uses the road to
>get to off road and gets a speeding ticket (camera).
>
>Bloke A now gets a NIP, and a fine for not unSORNing.
>
>So, a yearly reminder would be handy here ?


well, yeah. But if I was bloke A I'd make damned sure that I notified I was
no longer the keeper, so as to avoid any fines. Which is, as someone
pointed out, a good incentive.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On or around Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:28:38 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp RemoveThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:55:25 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> On or around 4 Feb 2008 08:43:10 GMT, "sweller" <sweller RemoveThis @mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, I disagree that once a SORN is declared it remains off road. A
>>>> scrote will not be bothered, you may sell it and not declare the sale
>>>> etc etc.
>>>
>>>Precisely - this seems to be more about "I'm too lazy to remember" rather
>>>than any pertinent benefit to the updating of the UK vehicle stock.
>>
>> it's only meant to be partly about that. I think it unreasonable to fine me
>> 40 quid for forgetting, but then I could avoid that easily. However, it's
>
>So, forgetting to stick to the speed limit should not be a fine either ?
>Or why not have an MOT last for life, why should that be yearly ?

now you're just being deliberately obtuse. Well done.

I break speed limits all the time, but I keep my eyes open while doing it
and so far I've been lucky and not got caught.

as for MOT, well, that's just not a comparison.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:26:19 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp DeleteThis @ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
wrote:

>So, bloke A sells bike to bloke B.
>Neither bloke A nor block B bother to do the right thing and get it
>unSORNed, bloke B uses it off road etc (but is pikey and uses the road to
>get to off road and gets a speeding ticket (camera).
>
>Bloke A now gets a NIP, and a fine for not unSORNing.
>
>So, a yearly reminder would be handy here ?

No. by the time a yearly reminder has arrived, bloke B could already
have done a hit and run.

Transferring keepership (keeperhood?) of a vehicle, like taking a
vehicle off-road or modifying or exporting or scrapping it are clear
changes of vehicle status which only need advising once.

In the case of SORN, not even once because as I've already explained,
failing to tax a vehicle must by default be taking it off-road, though
I'll accept that positively telling the DVLA *once* clearly indicates
that it wasn't simply an oversight.

After all, you wouldn't expect to have to advise the DVLA that your
'bike is still sold' yearly, would you?

--
-Pip
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition 

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:27:33 +0000, Pip Luscher wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:26:19 GMT, YTC#1 <bdp.TakeThisOut@ytc1NOARGYBEEF.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>So, bloke A sells bike to bloke B.
>>Neither bloke A nor block B bother to do the right thing and get it
>>unSORNed, bloke B uses it off road etc (but is pikey and uses the road to
>>get to off road and gets a speeding ticket (camera).
>>
>>Bloke A now gets a NIP, and a fine for not unSORNing.
>>
>>So, a yearly reminder would be handy here ?
>
> No. by the time a yearly reminder has arrived, bloke B could already
> have done a hit and run.
>
> Transferring keepership (keeperhood?) of a vehicle, like taking a
> vehicle off-road or modifying or exporting or scrapping it are clear
> changes of vehicle status which only need advising once.
>
> In the case of SORN, not even once because as I've already explained,
> failing to tax a vehicle must by default be taking it off-road, though

Ah, but you may forget to tax it and leave it on the road.

> I'll accept that positively telling the DVLA *once* clearly indicates
> that it wasn't simply an oversight.
>
> After all, you wouldn't expect to have to advise the DVLA that your
> 'bike is still sold' yearly, would you?

Don't you dare suggest that to them !

--
XJR1300SP, XJ900F, GS550, GSX250, 750SS
POTM#1(KoTL), WUSS#1 , YTC#1(bar), OSOS#2(KoTL) , DS#3 , IbW#18 ,Apostle#8
*(Emails to the posted address will be ignored)*
"The internet is a huge and diverse community and not every one is friendly"
http://www.ytc1.co.uk There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
Get the Software http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris
 >> Stay informed about: SORN petition