NSW/SYD: banning colours

Damien wrote:
> atec77 wrote:
>> Damien wrote:
>>> atec77 wrote:
>>>> Bouncer ?
>>>> incorrect , please use crowd controller / Security Person in the
>>>> future thanks (wouldn't want to bruise any ones ego)
>>>
>>> Jumped-up egotistical rent-a-cops?
>> can I watch while you mention this tag to one of the local protective
>> persons
>
>
> hmm...laugh on NG versus beating at hands of offended shaved
> monkey...can I pass?
shaved monkey ?
are you "the" continent ?
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfot880.1i8.zebeej@gmail.com...

> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> on motorcyclists?
>
> Zebee

In my view it is as much an attack on a minority group as the "Patch Club's"
attack upon the Ulysses members who add "Rockers" to the Ulysses logo, in
that action "Patch Clubs" demonstrated their distain for other
"Motorcyclists" and do not deserve the support of the wider body of
Motorcyclists on this issue.

Should "Patch Clubs" demand the right to wear their Colors in public surely
they should support other motorcyclists rights to get out their textacolors
and draw pretty pictures on the back of their jackets also.

Should the NSW Government want to ban "Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs" they shoul
have the guts to do it themselves rather than hide behing Pubs and Clubs.

Boxer
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

JL wrote:
> On Jan 17, 11:59 am, CrazyCam <crazy....RemoveThis@upturnet.com.au> wrote:
>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
>>> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
>>> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
>>> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
>>> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>> It's been done before.
>>
>> AFAIK, pubs can set whatever conditions they like, wrt people not being
>> allowed in, subject, possibly to anti-discrimination regulations.
>>
>>> The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
>>> the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
>>> lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>> Fighting it how exactly?
>>
>> If you publish a list of hotels that have such rules, I will quite
>> happily undertake to not go into them.
>>
>> Can't see what else can be done.
>>
>>> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
>>> on motorcyclists?
>> Of course its an attack on motorcyclists.
>
> Well actually (IMNSHO) it's an attack on a sub group of
> motorcyclists.... the article quoted on the MCC list (I'll post a URL
> when I find one shortly) indicated the ban was only of a list of 18
> specified clubs displaying regalia. So OMCG members could enter the
> pub provided they didn't wear colours. Same as you can visit a pub as
> long as you don't smoke.
>
>> One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
>> upset if they aren't banned.
>
> Well they're not banned (it's just 1%ers - Rebels, Gypsy Jokers,
> Commies etc)
>

But some of the HOG lot go to such extremes to try and look like 1%ers.
>>> Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
>>> get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
>>> even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>> It's kind of far too late to have that discussion now.
>
> I agree - that ship sailed quite a long time ago, unwinding a decade
> worth of inroads in personal freedoms needs to start with more
> important issues like not being locked up without access to a lawyer
> and etc
> ..snip
>> N.B. I am slightly concerned that such action has been made illegal.
>> GB, JL?


No, John, it was organising a commercial boycott, as in a web page with
the names of pubs not to go to.

I have a sort of feeling that doing that has actually been made illegal.

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

"JL" <jlittler DeleteThis @my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:94120cab-d516-428a-8f7f-060d71651764@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 17, 12:55 pm, Damien <al.qa... DeleteThis @asio.gov.au> wrote:


>Already happens now, any pub or club can enforce any dress code they
>want - just try to get into any of Sydney's inner city nightclubs in
>the wrong clothes and see how far you get.

>JL

In Brisbane you will have trouble getting into night clubs if you are too
old, too ugly or dressed unfashionably



(Never mind, I did not like the music anyway).



Boxer
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:35:46 -0800 (PST)
JL <jlittler RemoveThis @my-deja.com> wrote:
> Here's a URL for the story, noting that the following lines which were
> posted to the MCC list (purportedly transcribed from the paper copy
> are NOT in the online copy) (spell errors are transcriber's I
> suspect).
>
> http://www.parramattaadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/01/16/1370_news.html
>
> They are The Bandidos,The black Ulans, Coffin Cheaters,
> Comancheros,Finks,Fourth Reich,
> Gladiators,Gypsey Jokers,Highway 61, Life and Death, Lone Wolf,
> Mobshitters, Nomads,
> Odins Warriers, Outcasts,Outlaws, Phoenix and Rebels.

I presume the club list is the one mentioned here:

"The Royal Oak already has erected signs spelling out the ban on
members of 19 bikie clubs."

However there still is no info easily available on how the list was
compiled. We'd need to see into the licence to see what they've been
asked to do.

Apropos of a boycott: "Apart from fear over bikies' behaviour, other
patrons had stopped going to hotels with a reputed high bikie
presence."

I suspect that the publicans will sell more food and higher priced
drinks than they will lose out of this.

Zebee
- who did once get thrown out of the Woodman's Inn for being too well
dressed.
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> "The Royal Oak already has erected signs spelling out the ban on
> members of 19 bikie clubs."
>
> However there still is no info easily available on how the list was
> compiled. We'd need to see into the licence to see what they've been
> asked to do.
>
> Apropos of a boycott: "Apart from fear over bikies' behaviour, other
> patrons had stopped going to hotels with a reputed high bikie
> presence."
>
> I suspect that the publicans will sell more food and higher priced
> drinks than they will lose out of this.

Ah! From the report

The Royal Oak's new management is hoping to "change its demographic",
according to licensee Troy Williams.

So they hope to move up market.

Funnily enough, the Royal Oak is one of the few pubs in P'matta that I
used to occasionally drink in.

I won't be doing that again.

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

In aus.motorcycles on Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:24:19 -0800 (PST)
intact.kneeslider DeleteThis @start.com.au <intact.kneeslider DeleteThis @start.com.au> wrote:
>
> Or, if they want to say you can't go in wearing patch club colours,
> they can already do so. No need to codify it, as such.

The difference here is that they can call the cops. Previously they
had to do it with their own security. Now they can call the cops who
you can bet will respond with great joy to bang people up.

Having it as part of the licence gives the publican much more backup.

Zebee
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

wasnt there a big group hug at the royal oak back in 2000 , when i wantered
over in that a direction once

met a few peeps from here , from memory



"CrazyCam" <crazycam DeleteThis @upturnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:478edc4d$0$12542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> "The Royal Oak already has erected signs spelling out the ban on
>> members of 19 bikie clubs."
>>
>> However there still is no info easily available on how the list was
>> compiled. We'd need to see into the licence to see what they've been
>> asked to do.
>>
>> Apropos of a boycott: "Apart from fear over bikies' behaviour, other
>> patrons had stopped going to hotels with a reputed high bikie
>> presence."
>>
>> I suspect that the publicans will sell more food and higher priced
>> drinks than they will lose out of this.
>
> Ah! From the report
>
> The Royal Oak's new management is hoping to "change its demographic",
> according to licensee Troy Williams.
>
> So they hope to move up market.
>
> Funnily enough, the Royal Oak is one of the few pubs in P'matta that I
> used to occasionally drink in.
>
> I won't be doing that again.
>
> regards,
> CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

JL wrote:
> On Jan 17, 12:55 pm, Damien <al.qa... RemoveThis @asio.gov.au> wrote:
>
>> If a particular organisation has a proven (in court) track record of
>> breaking laws that might warrant such a ban, then I'm all for those
>> specific organisations being banned if there is a direct and demonstrate
>> benefit to law-abiding citizens in doing so.
>>
>> However, any individual or organisation (whether or not they belong to a
>> patch club, and whether or not they are wearing clothing to indicate
>> this) should have the full rights of any other citizen to go wherever
>> wish in public and not be subjected to any restrictions not universally
>> applied to others irrespective of any club allegiances they might have.
>> If you have done nothing wrong, then the jacket you wear should not
>> preclude you from participating/attending a venue/event just like
>> everyone else who has also done nothing wrong.
>
> In public place, sure. But a public house is not actually a public
> place per se. It's a private business open to entry to those of the
> public the proprietor chooses to allow in. A publican is also required
> to prevent the entry (and forcibly eject) those who are intoxicated
> (for example).
>
>> The moment you start banning members of patch clubs who wear their
>> jackets, you automatically open the door for some overzealous twat to
>> just ban any person in a leather motorcycle jacket,
>
> Already happens now, any pub or club can enforce any dress code they
> want - just try to get into any of Sydney's inner city nightclubs in
> the wrong clothes and see how far you get.
>
> JL

You're missing the point. We're not talking about trendy places that
already have a recognised dress code. We're talking about your local
down the road, where the only standard re clothing is that you actually
have some on you.

This is not a standard being imposed to give pubs a certain 'character',
which is the sort of thing you are referring to in your 'examples'. This
is a new standard, that did not exist previously in the places to which
it is applied, and which has been crafted with the sole and express
purpose of deliberately excluded a class of people on the basis of their
clothing. The very fact that people are being classed according to their
clothing should be offensive enough to you, let alone the potential for
general abuse through misunderstandings etc.
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfots8l.34r.zebeej@gmail.com...
>
> IF the publican says "you leave" and you don't leave, then they can
> call the cops.
>
> If the publican says "you can't come in" and you argue, they can call
> the cops.
>
>
> Zebee

They can do this already.

Boxer
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

CrazyCam wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if
>> they are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club
>> logos. (And they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of
>> when we think "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea
>> is the pubs themselves do the banning rather than this being a law
>> as such.
>
> It's been done before.
>
> AFAIK, pubs can set whatever conditions they like, wrt people not
> being allowed in, subject, possibly to anti-discrimination
> regulations.

I went to a work do in a pub once and turned up in sneakers. Guy on the door
didn't want to let me in. Changed his mind when I told him it a) was a
private function and b) I had the money to pay for the lot.

Theo
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

"Damien" <al.qaeda.DeleteThis@asio.gov.au> wrote in message
news:fmms62$pri$1@aioe.org...
> Boxer wrote:
>>
>> How many inocent law abiding motorcyclists wear Outlaw Colors?
>>
>> If the Pub Ban would upset them think of their attidude after getting
>> bashed by a real Outlaw Bikie for waring "Colors"
>>
>> Boxer
>
> You either don't get it, or aren't listening, or both.
>
> The problem is not those who ARE wearing 'outlaw colours', but those who
> are THOUGHT to be, but in fact are not. Bouncers aren't known for being
> the brightest of sparks - far from it, in fact. But are you trying to tell
> me that they will be able to infallibly identify and differentiate the
> correct people?
>

So you think "Dumb Bouncers" will ban people who he thinks are wearing
"Outlaw Colors" but are not really, from the pub?



So what are these people wearing that are so "Outlaw Colorish" that are
capable of being mistaken for real "Outlaw Colors"?



Assuming of course that anyone wearing something resembling "Outlaw Colors"
manage to make it to the pub without being bashed senseless by "Real Outlaw
Bikies" as opposed to imitation look alike pretend "Outlaw Bikies".



Boxer
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos).

This has the potential to cause problems for riders not from the 'named
clubs' eg... a Ulysses rider with a ulysses patch on the back of their
jacket.

You and I would realise that there are no rockers, but would the average
publican?

I suspect not...

Also what about prospects? They don't have the logo so they'd be let in
by the same uninformed publican...

Also there is the thin edge of the wedge argument... if the general
public become aware that motorbike riders are being refused entry
because (general public view) they are *bikies* we'll end up wearing the
flack yet again.

If I could be sure that this would *never* (no not even once) cause any
issues for non club members then I'd say don't bother fighting it, but
that can't be said so yes I'd say speak up against it.


G-S
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours