NSW/SYD: banning colours

On Jan 17, 11:27 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>
> As the aus.moto delegate, I need to know what the people I'm representing
> think.
>
> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> on motorcyclists?
>
> Is this liable to be a problem for non-patch motorcyclists, like "you
> ride bikes and we don't want you"?
>
> Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>
> In other words, is this something the Motorcycle Council od NSW should
> be involved in?
>
> This is a Sydney (well Paramatta so far, but it will spread) thing,
> but I believe other state groups are doing the same, in SA they are
> talking about making it law.
>
> So tell me aus.moto, what do you want the MCC to do in this? Oppose the
> ban or not? If the MCC should support the UMC in opposition to the ban,
> what form should that support take?
>
> Zebee

I'm opposed to government bans on most things (including this), but
it's a bit rich for the patch clubs to start bitching about their
rights when they are willing to bash someone for wearing rockers on
their jackets.
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

On Jan 17, 12:17 pm, tropi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 17, 11:27 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> > are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> > they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> > "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos).  THe idea is the pubs
> > themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> > The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> > the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> > lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>
> > As the aus.moto delegate, I need to know what the people I'm representing
> > think.
>
> > Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> > on motorcyclists?
>
> > Is this liable to be a problem for non-patch motorcyclists, like "you
> > ride bikes and we don't want you"?
>
> > Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> > get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> > even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>
> > In other words, is this something the Motorcycle Council od NSW should
> > be involved in?
>
> > This is a Sydney (well Paramatta so far, but it will spread) thing,
> > but I believe other state groups are doing the same, in SA they are
> > talking about making it law.
>
> > So tell me aus.moto, what do you want the MCC to do in this?  Oppose the
> > ban or not?  If the MCC should support the UMC in opposition to the ban,
> > what form should that support take?
>
> > Zebee
>
> I'm opposed to government bans on most things (including this), but
> it's a bit rich for the patch clubs to start bitching about their
> rights when they are willing to bash someone for wearing rockers on
> their jackets

Indeed.

JL
(either you're an outlaw or you're not...)
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

On Jan 17, 12:15 pm, intact.kneesli....DeleteThis@start.com.au wrote:
> On Jan 17, 11:27 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> > are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos...
> > The idea is the pubs themselves do the banning rather than this being
> > a law as such.
>
> Does that mean the Hoteliers Association (or whatever the union for
> pub owners is called) is behind it rather than the government?
>
> Unless it's made law, I see the first pub to make a go of it getting
> royally shafted in court... much as happened with the couple of pubs
> that tried to keep out Lebbos and Pacific islanders.

Licencing laws (technically it's in the regulations). So yeah it's
kosher on that grounds - and as corks said, the above is racial
discrimination rather than refusal to allow entry based on a dress
code. Of course many nightclubs in Sydney practise a practical form of
gender and racial discrimination by refusing entry on dress code
grounds to Lebs and under 25 males generally, and if they can't make
that one stick they'll say "members only" and let through those they
want (young girlies in short dresses) and not let through those they
don't (see above).

> If they get sued, they could argue dress code, that they bar entry to
> persons wearing attire which could be construed as intimidating or
> confrontational... at which point the aggrieved bikie's lawyer enters
> into evidence video of the same bouncers letting in the bloke in the
> replica Waffen SS uniform, complete with Swastika armband...

Dress code doesn't need to be "confrontational" it can be anything the
bar wants it to be. If they say you can only get in wearing purple
spandex hotpants then that's their right.

JL
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

On Jan 17, 2:27 pm, JL <jlitt....RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 17, 12:15 pm, intact.kneesli....RemoveThis@start.com.au wrote:
>
> > If they get sued, they could argue dress code, that they bar entry to
> > persons wearing attire which could be construed as intimidating or
> > confrontational... at which point the aggrieved bikie's lawyer enters
> > into evidence video of the same bouncers letting in the bloke in the
> > replica Waffen SS uniform, complete with Swastika armband...
>
> Dress code doesn't need to be "confrontational" it can be anything the
> bar wants it to be. If they say you can only get in wearing purple
> spandex hotpants then that's their right.

Or, if they want to say you can't go in wearing patch club colours,
they can already do so. No need to codify it, as such.
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Next thing they will be banning leather jackets

Its stupid



"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfot880.1i8.zebeej@gmail.com...
> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>
> As the aus.moto delegate, I need to know what the people I'm representing
> think.
>
> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> on motorcyclists?
>
> Is this liable to be a problem for non-patch motorcyclists, like "you
> ride bikes and we don't want you"?
>
> Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>
> In other words, is this something the Motorcycle Council od NSW should
> be involved in?
>
> This is a Sydney (well Paramatta so far, but it will spread) thing,
> but I believe other state groups are doing the same, in SA they are
> talking about making it law.
>
> So tell me aus.moto, what do you want the MCC to do in this? Oppose the
> ban or not? If the MCC should support the UMC in opposition to the ban,
> what form should that support take?
>
> Zebee
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.

It's been done before.

AFAIK, pubs can set whatever conditions they like, wrt people not being
allowed in, subject, possibly to anti-discrimination regulations.

> The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> lobby group become involved in fighting this.

Fighting it how exactly?

If you publish a list of hotels that have such rules, I will quite
happily undertake to not go into them.

Can't see what else can be done.

> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> on motorcyclists?

Of course its an attack on motorcyclists.

One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
upset if they aren't banned.

> Is this liable to be a problem for non-patch motorcyclists, like "you
> ride bikes and we don't want you"?

Probably. Given that pubs and hotels have already been forced to refuse
my business anyway, 'cos I like a smoke, I'm not too concerned anyway.

> Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> even though you personally have done nothing wrong?

It's kind of far too late to have that discussion now.

> In other words, is this something the Motorcycle Council od NSW should
> be involved in?
>
> This is a Sydney (well Paramatta so far, but it will spread) thing,
> but I believe other state groups are doing the same, in SA they are
> talking about making it law.
>
> So tell me aus.moto, what do you want the MCC to do in this? Oppose the
> ban or not? If the MCC should support the UMC in opposition to the ban,
> what form should that support take?

I suggest that they maintain a web-page list of pubs and hotels trying
on this policy, and folk who feel strongly enough about the topic simply
don't use those pubs.

N.B. I am slightly concerned that such action has been made illegal.
GB, JL?

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

CrazyCam wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
>> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
>> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
>> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
>> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
> upset if they aren't banned.

Come to think of it, some Ulysses Club members might confused too.

regards,
CrazyCam
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:07:13 +1100
CrazyCam <crazycam DeleteThis @upturnet.com.au> wrote:
> CrazyCam wrote:
>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
>>> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
>>> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
>>> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
>>> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>>
>> One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
>> upset if they aren't banned.
>
> Come to think of it, some Ulysses Club members might confused too.
>

The press release gives names of clubs. How it is determined what an
"outlaw motorcycle club" is, or what "club regalia" is, has not been
said.

Preumably an outlaw club is any club the police say is one, and club
regalia/insignia is anything the bouncer says it is.

I dunno if the cops would class Ulysses or Kings Cross Bikers as
"outlaws" but a bouncer might easily decide any patch is a bad patch.

The result at the moment would be not being able to go into a
particular pub. I do expect that if this is seen as successful it
will extend to other establishments. Whether that will affect other
riders there's no way to know.

Zebee
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:07:13 +1100
> CrazyCam <crazycam.RemoveThis@upturnet.com.au> wrote:
>> CrazyCam wrote:
>>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>>> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
>>>> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
>>>> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
>>>> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
>>>> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>>> One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
>>> upset if they aren't banned.
>> Come to think of it, some Ulysses Club members might confused too.
>>
>
> The press release gives names of clubs. How it is determined what an
> "outlaw motorcycle club" is, or what "club regalia" is, has not been
> said.
>
> Preumably an outlaw club is any club the police say is one, and club
> regalia/insignia is anything the bouncer says it is.
>
> I dunno if the cops would class Ulysses or Kings Cross Bikers as
> "outlaws" but a bouncer might easily decide any patch is a bad patch.
Bouncer ?
incorrect , please use crowd controller / Security Person in the
future thanks (wouldn't want to bruise any ones ego)
>
> The result at the moment would be not being able to go into a
> particular pub. I do expect that if this is seen as successful it
> will extend to other establishments. Whether that will affect other
> riders there's no way to know.
>
> Zebee
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

On Jan 17, 1:09 pm, Damien <al.qa....TakeThisOut@asio.gov.au> wrote:
> atec77 wrote:
> > Damien wrote:
> >> atec77 wrote:
> >>> Bouncer ?
> >>> incorrect , please use crowd controller / Security Person in the
> >>> future thanks (wouldn't want to bruise any ones ego)
>
> >> Jumped-up egotistical rent-a-cops?
>
> > can I watch while you mention this tag to one of the local protective
> > persons
>
> hmm...laugh on NG versus beating at hands of offended shaved
> monkey...can I pass?

If you want to be seen as a gutless twat, sure...
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

On Jan 17, 11:59 am, CrazyCam <crazy....RemoveThis@upturnet.com.au> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> > There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> > are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> > they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> > "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos).  THe idea is the pubs
> > themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> It's been done before.
>
> AFAIK, pubs can set whatever conditions they like, wrt people not being
> allowed in, subject, possibly to anti-discrimination regulations.
>
> > The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> > the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> > lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>
> Fighting it how exactly?
>
> If you publish a list of hotels that have such rules, I will quite
> happily undertake to not go into them.
>
> Can't see what else can be done.
>
> > Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> > on motorcyclists?
>
> Of course its an attack on motorcyclists.

Well actually (IMNSHO) it's an attack on a sub group of
motorcyclists.... the article quoted on the MCC list (I'll post a URL
when I find one shortly) indicated the ban was only of a list of 18
specified clubs displaying regalia. So OMCG members could enter the
pub provided they didn't wear colours. Same as you can visit a pub as
long as you don't smoke.

> One wonders if the H.O.G. riders will be upset if the are banned or
> upset if they aren't banned.  

Well they're not banned (it's just 1%ers - Rebels, Gypsy Jokers,
Commies etc)

> > Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> > get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> > even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>
> It's kind of far too late to have that discussion now.  

I agree - that ship sailed quite a long time ago, unwinding a decade
worth of inroads in personal freedoms needs to start with more
important issues like not being locked up without access to a lawyer
and etc
..snip
> N.B. I am slightly concerned that such action has been made illegal.
> GB, JL?

Unless I've missed something, it's perfectly legit - the pubs in
question have had a requirement put on them as part of their licencing
that they refuse entry to people wearing specified clothing and/or
"regalia" (ie colours). It's no different to the requirement to eject
smokers if they smoke, or to close their doors at a certain hour.

There's certainly nothing in the federal or state constitutions
against it, and the discrimination legislation is quite narrowly
focussed on sexual, gender or racial discrimination (as I understand
it, it was pretty hard to get sexual orientation discrimination passed
in this state, a minority who make up a far bigger slice of the
population than one-percenters do). There's nothing to say that it is
illegal to discriminate against people's ability to enter a licenced
establishment based on their clothing. If there was pretty much every
pub and nightclub in Sydney would be in trouble...

JL
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> There's a move afoot in Sydney to ban people from entering pubs if they
> are wearing outlaw club colours or otherwise displaying club logos. (And
> they've named the clubs, the ones most of us think of when we think
> "outlaw club" such as Rebels and Bandidos). THe idea is the pubs
> themselves do the banning rather than this being a law as such.
>
> The UMC - an umbrella group of the patch clubs, who send a delegate to
> the MCC of NSW like any other club can - has asked that the MCC as a
> lobby group become involved in fighting this.
>
> As the aus.moto delegate, I need to know what the people I'm representing
> think.
>
> Is this something non-patch-club riders should worry about, as an attack
> on motorcyclists?
>
> Is this liable to be a problem for non-patch motorcyclists, like "you
> ride bikes and we don't want you"?
>
> Is this something we should be concerned about as citizens, that you
> get banned because of what you wear or who you choose to associate with,
> even though you personally have done nothing wrong?
>
> In other words, is this something the Motorcycle Council od NSW should
> be involved in?
>
> This is a Sydney (well Paramatta so far, but it will spread) thing,
> but I believe other state groups are doing the same, in SA they are
> talking about making it law.
>
> So tell me aus.moto, what do you want the MCC to do in this? Oppose the
> ban or not? If the MCC should support the UMC in opposition to the ban,
> what form should that support take?
>
> Zebee

If a particular organisation has a proven (in court) track record of
breaking laws that might warrant such a ban, then I'm all for those
specific organisations being banned if there is a direct and demonstrate
benefit to law-abiding citizens in doing so.

However, any individual or organisation (whether or not they belong to a
patch club, and whether or not they are wearing clothing to indicate
this) should have the full rights of any other citizen to go wherever
wish in public and not be subjected to any restrictions not universally
applied to others irrespective of any club allegiances they might have.
If you have done nothing wrong, then the jacket you wear should not
preclude you from participating/attending a venue/event just like
everyone else who has also done nothing wrong.

The moment you start banning members of patch clubs who wear their
jackets, you automatically open the door for some overzealous twat to
just ban any person in a leather motorcycle jacket, just because they
think "well, he obviously rides a bike and wears leather, he must be in
a gang!". What happens when a group of friends just out for a weekend
ride pull up at a pub for lunch, and get banned "because you're
obviously riding together, you must be a gang!"?

This is an idiotic law proposed by idiots, and should be opposed.
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours 

atec77 wrote:
> Damien wrote:
>> atec77 wrote:
>>> Bouncer ?
>>> incorrect , please use crowd controller / Security Person in the
>>> future thanks (wouldn't want to bruise any ones ego)
>>
>> Jumped-up egotistical rent-a-cops?
> can I watch while you mention this tag to one of the local protective
> persons


hmm...laugh on NG versus beating at hands of offended shaved
monkey...can I pass?
 >> Stay informed about: NSW/SYD: banning colours