Down in Monterey...(Spoila')

"sturd" <mikesturdevant127.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185148035.052850.166670@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> T3 says:
>
>>You gotta' feel
>> a little sorry for Hayes too, the guy who knocked him out replaced him at
>> the top of the title chase..
>
> Yea, you gotta feel sorry for him, for getting beat out at the top of
> the points but....
>
> That looked like his own fault, mainly. He was beat into the
> corner and tried to squeeze out a few inches on the outside.
> Not a particularly high odds move. Following and looking for a way
> past later would have been smarter.
>
> I think.

Yeah, it was prolly one of those things that looked good to him at the time,
but didn't "quite" work out as he planned...
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:47:15 -0700, sturd
<mikesturdevant127.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>T3 says:
>
>>You gotta' feel
>> a little sorry for Hayes too, the guy who knocked him out replaced him at
>> the top of the title chase..
>
>Yea, you gotta feel sorry for him, for getting beat out at the top of
>the points but....
>
>That looked like his own fault, mainly. He was beat into the
>corner and tried to squeeze out a few inches on the outside.
>Not a particularly high odds move. Following and looking for a way
>past later would have been smarter.
>
>I think.

I agree. That was early in a long race, no reason to do anything
high-risk at that point. I hate he got a DNF and 0 points but that's
the way it goes.
I'm trying to figure out whether Miguel showed more guts in quitting
than he would have in staying out there. I guess I can see his point
in stopping if he wasn't in the groove. He has nothing on the line in
that series and no future there, either. Unlike Roger Hayden or Davies
who might desire a full ride in GP one day and therefore desired to
impress, Miguel had nothing to gain and not much to lose either.
 >> Stay informed about: Down in Monterey...(Spoila') 

Nicky made a rare but clear mistake is the veredict. He ran wide. The came
back not even looking what else was in there. I feel sorry for Hopkims, who
based on the P trends could have given at least Vermeulen a run for his
money...
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On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:23:02 -0400, Russell Watson
<russell-watson.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>I'm trying to figure out whether Miguel showed more guts in quitting
>than he would have in staying out there. I guess I can see his point
>in stopping if he wasn't in the groove. He has nothing on the line in
>that series and no future there, either. Unlike Roger Hayden or Davies
>who might desire a full ride in GP one day and therefore desired to
>impress, Miguel had nothing to gain and not much to lose either.

More guts in quitting? Sorry, that's the opposite of guts.

I thought that was bizarre. I assumed he had a mechanical issue or
something, and he comes out with "After seeing the incident in front
of me, I lost focus and decided to just hang it up" (paraphrased).

Nothing to gain or lose? Then why line up on the starting grid?

I always liked Duhamel and thought he was a class act, but that was
wrong. You wanna run a MotoGP race, then don't run away and hide at
the first sign of what was, imo, a relatively minor racing situation.
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"DaveW" <yzfr1ny RemoveThis @yahoooo.com> wrote in message
news:2l98a3piimhqihkupoqgc3unohh3uq66r2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:23:02 -0400, Russell Watson
> <russell-watson RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to figure out whether Miguel showed more guts in quitting
>>than he would have in staying out there. I guess I can see his point
>>in stopping if he wasn't in the groove. He has nothing on the line in
>>that series and no future there, either. Unlike Roger Hayden or Davies
>>who might desire a full ride in GP one day and therefore desired to
>>impress, Miguel had nothing to gain and not much to lose either.
>
> More guts in quitting? Sorry, that's the opposite of guts.
>
> I thought that was bizarre. I assumed he had a mechanical issue or
> something, and he comes out with "After seeing the incident in front
> of me, I lost focus and decided to just hang it up" (paraphrased).
>
> Nothing to gain or lose? Then why line up on the starting grid?
>
> I always liked Duhamel and thought he was a class act, but that was
> wrong. You wanna run a MotoGP race, then don't run away and hide at
> the first sign of what was, imo, a relatively minor racing situation.

You might be comin' down a little hard on the old boy Dave, I heard it was
pretty much like Nicky said, they threw an old dog a bone and was never
meant to be much more than that. He prolly was just happy(or told) to do a
few laps and not either break it, or get in somebody's way...
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pablo wrote:
> Nicky made a rare but clear mistake is the veredict. He ran wide. The came
> back not even looking what else was in there. I feel sorry for Hopkims, who
> based on the P trends could have given at least Vermeulen a run for his
> money...
>
>
looked like hew as forced a bit out by stoner (unfortuantely donlt have
a DVR here to rerun and see for sure) but if he didn't come back across
then, he would have run out of track. Hopper was as far (or more) out of
line by being that far out, that late in the corner. but it really sucks
for both of them as I don't know that either could have caught Stoner,
but they both would have been possible podiums.

Bruce
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Mark N subtly blames:

> So Pablo blames Hayden, and Julian subtly blames overenthusiastic
> Americans at home in general.

[snip]

> I do not think that
> incident would have occurred had Pedrosa and certainly Stoner not gotten
> in as hot as they did, creating a chain reaction sort of thing.

And Mark N subtly blames the midget (and Casey). What a surprise.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
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On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:09:25 -0400, DaveW <yzfr1ny.DeleteThis@yahoooo.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:23:02 -0400, Russell Watson
><russell-watson.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to figure out whether Miguel showed more guts in quitting
>>than he would have in staying out there. I guess I can see his point
>>in stopping if he wasn't in the groove. He has nothing on the line in
>>that series and no future there, either. Unlike Roger Hayden or Davies
>>who might desire a full ride in GP one day and therefore desired to
>>impress, Miguel had nothing to gain and not much to lose either.
>
>More guts in quitting? Sorry, that's the opposite of guts.
>
>I thought that was bizarre. I assumed he had a mechanical issue or
>something, and he comes out with "After seeing the incident in front
>of me, I lost focus and decided to just hang it up" (paraphrased).
>
>Nothing to gain or lose? Then why line up on the starting grid?
>
>I always liked Duhamel and thought he was a class act, but that was
>wrong. You wanna run a MotoGP race, then don't run away and hide at
>the first sign of what was, imo, a relatively minor racing situation.

Well, when they ran the AMA SB race on Speed about 30 minutes after I
posted what I wrote, they had almost exactly the same take on it that
I had. He basically decided to save himself for the AMA race, which he
did a damn fine job of fighting for a podium position on, and managed
a close 4th out the deal. Unfortunately for him, Jordan's $$$ and name
recognition have enabled him to get Suzuki to sell them the right
parts to make Yates's Gixxer almost as good as the factory rides of
Spies and Mladin. The 3-way scramble for 3rd between Duhamel, Yates,
and Hodgsen was the highlight of the race, with all of them holding
the spot at some point and lapped traffic playing a role in the final
outcome.
And yeah, sometimes it takes more guts to quit than to hang in there,
especially in something being broadcast live on worldwide TV.
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"Bruce H" <a RemoveThis @b.c> wrote in message news:f81of6$453$2@aioe.org...

> looked like hew as forced a bit out by stoner (unfortuantely donlt have a
> DVR here to rerun and see for sure) but if he didn't come back across
> then, he would have run out of track. Hopper was as far (or more) out of
> line by being that far out ...

Hopkins had claimed the inside of Hayden, so I am not sure how he can then
possibly be out more of line than Hayden. Everybody up front seemed to run a
tad wide, it was the first corner and they were coming in hot. Pedrosa was
up front, so he had nothing to do with this. Stoner and Hayden came in side
by side, both go a tad wide, but Hayden continues to do so. Hopkins makes it
to Hayden's inside, but Hayden clips him coming in from the outside. Whether
it's Hopkins fault for being there, or Hayden's for coming in from the
outside... well, Hayden remained upright, Hopkins didn't. Shame, since both
had shown some promise. Then again, it truly looked like Stoner reigned
supreme up front. Pedrosa just had half a lap of glory and then faded. The
Michelins had a horrible weekend, it looks like they are falling behind
bridgestone more and more.
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Bruce H <a DeleteThis @b.c> Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:21:57
>pablo wrote:
>> Nicky made a rare but clear mistake is the veredict. He ran wide. The
>>came back not even looking what else was in there. I feel sorry for
>>Hopkims, who based on the P trends could have given at least
>>Vermeulen a run for his money...
>looked like hew as forced a bit out by stoner (unfortuantely donlt have
>a DVR here to rerun and see for sure) but if he didn't come back across
>then, he would have run out of track. Hopper was as far (or more) out
>of line by being that far out, that late in the corner. but it really
>sucks for both of them as I don't know that either could have caught
>Stoner, but they both would have been possible podiums.

I think both of them (and Hopper especially) were really fired up with
adrenalin. It's the first lap, an early corner and these things happen.
It was a shame as I was looking forward to Hopper going for it.

All sorts of daftness this weekend.

- Guintoli getting the corkscrew hopelessly wrong. It must have been
something like his 4th attempt. Just very unfortunate that Hoffman was
in the way. Shades of Chandler and Yanagawa but a different reason.

- As Ryder says: "Alex Hofmann being stranded on the outside of the
circuit for 20 minutes before an ambulance could get to him. Why was the
red flag delayed? How come GPs come to a track where there is no
ambulance access by service road?"
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Jul/e/n070722p.htm
I mean, really. The Corkscrew. How many accidents have we seen there
over the years?

- Ryder again. "It would never happen in Europe: Only two races on
Sunday! In the UK they wouldn't pay to get in and in Spain they'd burn
the place down."
Two races? You're kidding. Every other round of MotoGP manages 4 races
on the day, sometimes 5.

- I have to say I did enjoy the display of gratuitous Nationalism before
the race. The Flyby. The Marines band in dress uniform. The offkey
singing of the National anthem. The prominently displayed flags on the
video feed. All that was missing (or was it missing?) was the Christian
prayer for the racers. It would never happen in the EuroFag countries
where they can't even work out if they're one country (EU) or many.

- Kurtis slowing down, running wide, looking behind him when Melandri is
on a hot lap. Completely unnecessary.

- Checa slowing down, looking behind him when Hopper is on a hot lap. So
there were yellow flags, maybe. So? There were 3 minutes left of QP1.

- Rossi forgetting that this is Laguna and there's no astro turf between
the white line and the sand. There's a drainage gully. Err, why? Those
last corners before the corkscrew look narrower than they used to be,
although maybe it's that the bikes are faster. That used to be a
favourite passing place for crazy or stupid riders like Kocinski. It
really didn't look like it was possible for anyone to run into the
corkscrew on the inside.

- Pretty much nobody going faster on qualifiers than they went on worn
race tyres. What's that all about? I know we had new tarmac and it
proved abrasive, but how did Michelin get it so wrong? I think this was
another downside of the new tyre rules. Again. Like I said before, I
didn't like some riders getting special tyres flown in on Fri and Sat
night, but the current system isn't right either.

- Just like Sachsenring, we had new tarmac but with new bumps. Again,
why?

- What a waste of time Duhamel's ride proved to be. Though I suppose
Hopper got one point as a result.

- Let's hear it for Roger Hayden and Chaz Davies. Give them both a job.
And West as well. And De Puniet.

- After all the back and forth about Jordan and AMA SB rules, Yates gets
a podium. Perhaps there's nothing wrong with the Jordan Suzukis except
the riders?

- And I guess Hodgson showed that there's not too much wrong with the
Corona Hondas that firing James Ellison wouldn't sort out.

- Too many people hurt this year. A side effect of the 800cc?

And finally (really). When is Stoner going to hit some bad luck? Right
now he's got that Doohan thing going where not only is he on a roll but
he wants to rub everyone's nose in it. None of this controlling the race
from the front. If he can win by 10-15-20s, he will.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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Julian Bond wrote:
> Bruce H
>> pablo wrote:
>>> Nicky made a rare but clear mistake is the veredict. He ran wide. The
>>> came back not even looking what else was in there. I feel sorry for
>>> Hopkims, who based on the P trends could have given at least
>>> Vermeulen a run for his money...

>> looked like hew as forced a bit out by stoner (unfortuantely donlt
>> have a DVR here to rerun and see for sure) but if he didn't come back
>> across then, he would have run out of track. Hopper was as far (or
>> more) out of line by being that far out, that late in the corner. but
>> it really sucks for both of them as I don't know that either could
>> have caught Stoner, but they both would have been possible podiums.

> I think both of them (and Hopper especially) were really fired up with
> adrenalin. It's the first lap, an early corner and these things happen.
> It was a shame as I was looking forward to Hopper going for it.

So Pablo blames Hayden, and Julian subtly blames overenthusiastic
Americans at home in general. Predictable enough. Hayden came in toward
the apex of the corner and found Stoner there, who was in too hot,
struggling to get it stopped and drifting wide. That might in part be
because Pedrosa had gotten in too fast and was himself running wide,
although he didn't physically force Casey wide at all, as he was way out
front going in. I was watching the race from the hill between turns one
and two, and took a photo of the guys coming through the first apex,
with the first four way wide, and then Capirossi and Vermeulen on a more
normal line. Hopkins was behind Hayden at that time, but cut up the
inside, which really left Hayden with nowhere to go, as they were both
so far out. Anyway, I just think it was a case of a slow corner right
after a start and a bunch of guys going for it. I do not think that
incident would have occurred had Pedrosa and certainly Stoner not gotten
in as hot as they did, creating a chain reaction sort of thing.
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"Julian Bond" <julian_bond DeleteThis @voidstar.com> wrote in message
news:ekgqI1L9pJpGFAqM@jblaptop.voidstar.com...
>
> I think both of them (and Hopper especially) were really fired up with
> adrenalin. It's the first lap, an early corner and these things happen. It
> was a shame as I was looking forward to Hopper going for it.

To me it looked like they both realized their only hope to win was to try to
stay with Casey from the get go and maybe force an error, unfortunately, in
doing so they may have overlooked that old adage about 1st turns..
>
> All sorts of daftness this weekend.

Oh, I don't think it'll be confined to last weekend, you know who should be
along shortly with words of wisdom..(hmm, time for a little pre-review
pump-up?
>
> - Guintoli getting the corkscrew hopelessly wrong. It must have been
> something like his 4th attempt. Just very unfortunate that Hoffman was in
> the way. Shades of Chandler and Yanagawa but a different reason.

How many more are going to be hurt before we stop racing at such dangerous
places? The next generation will be shocked that we actually raced at such
an unsafe excuse for a track!
..
>
> - As Ryder says: "Alex Hofmann being stranded on the outside of the
> circuit for 20 minutes before an ambulance could get to him. Why was the
> red flag delayed? How come GPs come to a track where there is no ambulance
> access by service road?"
> http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Jul/e/n070722p.htm
> I mean, really. The Corkscrew. How many accidents have we seen there over
> the years?

I don't get it either, you'd think by now somebody would've taken a
bulldozer and flattened the damn thing, but no...
(if those don't get his panty's in a wad, somethin' wrong!)
>
> - Ryder again. "It would never happen in Europe: Only two races on Sunday!
> In the UK they wouldn't pay to get in and in Spain they'd burn the place
> down."
> Two races? You're kidding. Every other round of MotoGP manages 4 races on
> the day, sometimes 5.

There's only so many hours in the day Julian, after all, they prolly had to
make time for two stunt shows, shopping, track rides, Ducati rides, more
shopping, track walks, maybe a NASCAR demo and not only are these things so
very important, they take time..

>
> - I have to say I did enjoy the display of gratuitous Nationalism before
> the race. The Flyby. The Marines band in dress uniform. The offkey singing
> of the National anthem. The prominently displayed flags on the video feed.
> All that was missing (or was it missing?) was the Christian prayer for the
> racers. It would never happen in the EuroFag countries where they can't
> even work out if they're one country (EU) or many.

I'd bet real money there was at least one minister of some sort involved
somewhere in the deal and as far as the nationalism, ISTR we're at war
somewhere and even though 8 out of 10 people here couldn't find where on a
globe, it never hurts to show off the boys in uniform. Hey, at least they
didn't drop any bombs! (they didn't have to, the King brought Kurtis)
>
> - Kurtis slowing down, running wide, looking behind him when Melandri is
> on a hot lap. Completely unnecessary.

Oouh, that smell, can't 'ya smell that smell?

>
> - Checa slowing down, looking behind him when Hopper is on a hot lap. So
> there were yellow flags, maybe. So? There were 3 minutes left of QP1.

Heh, isn't that sorta' his job, ISTR he does it with some regularity..

>
> - What a waste of time Duhamel's ride proved to be.

Heh, not to either him, or Gresini, who, I'm fairly sure was just happy that
he didn't break anything..


Though I suppose
> Hopper got one point as a result.

One? I bet that made Hoppy's day!

>
> - Let's hear it for Roger Hayden and Chaz Davies. Give them both a job.
> And West as well. And De Puniet.

I would imagine RL will be over there next year, prolly Ben too and while
the Kid Davies has shown some moxy I do not think he's ready. He has yet to
do much in SSport and while it's a time zone apart from MGP, it is a cut
throat hard racing type deal that is prolly more like GP than anything else
we have, though in the grand scheme Dorna's interests prolly don't go far
beyond his passport..
>
> - After all the back and forth about Jordan and AMA SB rules, Yates gets a
> podium. Perhaps there's nothing wrong with the Jordan Suzukis except the
> riders?

Yeah, it was a very close box, Yates 3rd, a half lap down. Ben and Mat were
turning low 124's and the fastest of the rest were 125.5's and up..

>
> - And I guess Hodgson showed that there's not too much wrong with the
> Corona Hondas that firing James Ellison wouldn't sort out.

The old boy's lookin' for work, I, for one, hope he found some..

>
> - Too many people hurt this year. A side effect of the 800cc?
>
> And finally (really). When is Stoner going to hit some bad luck? Right now
> he's got that Doohan thing going where not only is he on a roll but he
> wants to rub everyone's nose in it. None of this controlling the race from
> the front. If he can win by 10-15-20s, he will.

When you're hot, you're hot. When you're not, lite a fire...
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T3 <nothere RemoveThis @nowhere.net> Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:25:20
>I would imagine RL will be over there next year, prolly Ben too and while
>the Kid Davies has shown some moxy I do not think he's ready. He has yet to
>do much in SSport and while it's a time zone apart from MGP, it is a cut
>throat hard racing type deal that is prolly more like GP than anything else
>we have, though in the grand scheme Dorna's interests prolly don't go far
>beyond his passport..

The best thing about Chaz' ride was the way he didn't break anything and
kept dropping his lap times all weekend right through to the last couple
of laps. 1m23.7 ain't too shabby. Roger Hayden's fast lap was 1m23.6

>To me it looked like they both realized their only hope to win was to try to
>stay with Casey from the get go and maybe force an error, unfortunately, in
>doing so they may have overlooked that old adage about 1st turns..

I only really mentioned it because Hopper looked full of beans all
weekend and was positively shaking before the race. Some time in QP1 I
remember thinking Hopper thinks he can win this one. Then he never got
the good lap (due to Checa) and had another mountain to climb. And
Hayden obviously wanted to do well but also had some ground to make up
with his team mate in front. Some people thrive on the home race. Some
people (even the same people in different years) get thrown by the extra
pressure.

--
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Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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