Master links

"Bruce Woodburn" <brucew.TakeThisOut@dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:vh3jophdro88d1@corp.supernews.com...
 > 20+ years ago, when I bought a GS1100, I was cautioned to replace the
chain
 > ONLY with a continuous chain "because the bike had WAY too much hp for a
 > master link". I did as I was told fist time, removing the swing arm, etc.
 > The next time I went to the dealer for an "endless chain", I was sold one
 > with a master link by the same dealer who had once insisted I never use
one.
 > When I asked about the "too much hp" line, he laughed at me and said "ALL
 > the race bike use masterlinks".
 >
 > Many years (many miles and several master link chains) later I bought a
 > 1200Bandit and was told by (another) dealer "be sure to replace it with an
 > endless chain because it has WAY too much hp for a master link".
 >
 > OK, what's the poop on master links?. Has anyone had one fail if it's
 > installed properly?
 >
 > Bruce
 >
 >

A masterlink is perfectly fine, but it must be the rivet type and not the
one with the slide-on clip. Most chains come with the clip type masterlink
but the rivet type is only another few bucks.
Without the proper tool to set the rivet link, you can install the clip type
masterlink and ride to a shop to have the rivet type link installed.
A properly set rivet link is virtually an "endless chain".
B<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Bruce Woodburn" <brucew RemoveThis @dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:vh3t5r6qslst55@corp.supernews.com...
 > What's wrong with a slide-on clip? It takes no load and never touches
 > anything on it's endless travels. Ever had one come off after being
 > installed properly?
 >
 > Everyone "knows" the clip has to be "pointed the right way". Really? I
read
 > an article on chains in a bike magazine. The author had been deliberately
 > putting his masterlink clips on backwards for decades... on road and
off...
 > and never had one come off. (I don't have the same faith... I diligently
put
 > them on the "right way".)
 >
 > Our "chain beliefs" have all the markers of superstition conditioning.
Every
 > time we do something to avert disaster (throw salt over our shoulder,
cross
 > ourselves, put the clip on the right way, get a riveted link) we reinforce
 > the "validity" of our beliefs.
 >
 > What evidence (not rational) is there you are more likely to loose a chain
 > if you use a master link on a big road bike?
 >
 > Doubting Thomas

Well the fact that all modern sportbike manufactureres caution against using
them.
The clip gets lost almost every time. The plate will stay for a while as
it's a press fit, but it too will fly off without the clip and that's where
the problems happen.
This is not superstition, it is fact.

That's the poop on masterlinks. Only a rivet link is acceptable on large
sport bikes.
B<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 > The clip gets lost almost every time. The plate will stay for a while as
 > it's a press fit, but it too will fly off without the clip and that's
where
 > the problems happen.
 > This is not superstition, it is fact.
 >

I realise loss of the clip (then plate, then chain) is the concern. But
"almost every time"? I've been riding for 35 years (including "sportbikes"
for as long as they have existed), almost all of it with a traditional
masterlink. I have never lost a clip, plate or chain. I have never ridden
with anyone who has. I have never met anyone who this has happened to. Any
one out there ever lost a masterlink?

 >Well the fact is that all modern sportbike manufactureres caution against
using
them. (clipped masterlinks)

Yup. They also caution against using anything but genuine factory parts, too
(chains, filters, lubricants, bulbs, locktite, engine oil, bearings, seals,
gaskets...). I'm guilty there, too. But I haven't been struck by lightning.


Doubting Thomas<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:31:15 -0700, "Bruce Woodburn"
<brucew.RemoveThis@dccnet.com> wrote:

 >20+ years ago, when I bought a GS1100, I was cautioned to replace the chain
 >ONLY with a continuous chain "because the bike had WAY too much hp for a
 >master link". I did as I was told fist time, removing the swing arm, etc.
 >The next time I went to the dealer for an "endless chain", I was sold one
 >with a master link by the same dealer who had once insisted I never use one.
 >When I asked about the "too much hp" line, he laughed at me and said "ALL
 >the race bike use masterlinks".
 >
 >Many years (many miles and several master link chains) later I bought a
 >1200Bandit and was told by (another) dealer "be sure to replace it with an
 >endless chain because it has WAY too much hp for a master link".
 >
 >OK, what's the poop on master links?. Has anyone had one fail if it's
 >installed properly?

Personally, and there's a ton of debate on this, I prefer clipped
master links to either riveted masters or endless chains, but I don't
use the clip, I safety wire the plate on. Riveted links have hollow
pins that I don't trust since they have to be weaker than the solid
pins all the other links have. Endless chains are a pain in the butt
to deal with since you have to drop the swingarm, find exactly the
right length chain, and cleaning it has to be done on the bike without
a ton of work.

Steve
95 Buell S2
96 Kawasaki ZX7R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Bubba" <bubba RemoveThis @beer.com> wrote in message
news:3f11df5d.168002168@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
 > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:31:15 -0700, "Bruce Woodburn"
 > <brucew RemoveThis @dccnet.com> wrote:
snip

 > Personally, and there's a ton of debate on this, I prefer clipped
 > master links to either riveted masters or endless chains, but I don't
 > use the clip, I safety wire the plate on. Riveted links have hollow
 > pins that I don't trust since they have to be weaker than the solid
 > pins all the other links have. Endless chains are a pain in the butt
 > to deal with since you have to drop the swingarm, find exactly the
 > right length chain, and cleaning it has to be done on the bike without
 > a ton of work.
 >
 > Steve
 > 95 Buell S2
 > 96 Kawasaki ZX7R

Rivet links do not have hollow pins, only the tip is to allow for a proper
rivet.
It's the same strength as every other pin.
b<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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I have been riding motorcycles for 33 yrs Raced them from the time I was 8
to 23 yrs old
flat track , motocross , roadracing , drag racing & some hill climbing Iv
owned so many bikes I cant hardly
remember them .. I was very blessed to have a father who ran a motorcycle
repair and tuner shop
he so loved to build race bikes it was in his blood it was all he thought
about ..
but back to the master link question all we ever used was clips and never
have I seen one come apart
not on any bike I have ever rode or at any race Iv ever been to .. Never
With that said though Iv seen a few chains break and cause all kinds of crap
...all because of poor maintnace
or wore out or misadjusted ...
well that's my 2 cents

RC
2001 R1
94 ninja 250 r
86 husky XT500
96 husky TE610
\
"Bruce Woodburn" <brucew RemoveThis @dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:vh3jophdro88d1@corp.supernews.com...
 > 20+ years ago, when I bought a GS1100, I was cautioned to replace the
chain
 > ONLY with a continuous chain "because the bike had WAY too much hp for a
 > master link". I did as I was told fist time, removing the swing arm, etc.
 > The next time I went to the dealer for an "endless chain", I was sold one
 > with a master link by the same dealer who had once insisted I never use
one.
 > When I asked about the "too much hp" line, he laughed at me and said "ALL
 > the race bike use masterlinks".
 >
 > Many years (many miles and several master link chains) later I bought a
 > 1200Bandit and was told by (another) dealer "be sure to replace it with an
 > endless chain because it has WAY too much hp for a master link".
 >
 > OK, what's the poop on master links?. Has anyone had one fail if it's
 > installed properly?
 >
 > Bruce
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Master links 

"Bruce Woodburn" <brucew.RemoveThis@dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:vh461ihbvki833@corp.supernews.com...
 >
  > > The clip gets lost almost every time. The plate will stay for a while as
  > > it's a press fit, but it too will fly off without the clip and that's
 > where
  > > the problems happen.
  > > This is not superstition, it is fact.
  > >
 >
 > I realise loss of the clip (then plate, then chain) is the concern. But
 > "almost every time"? I've been riding for 35 years (including "sportbikes"
 > for as long as they have existed), almost all of it with a traditional
 > masterlink. I have never lost a clip, plate or chain. I have never ridden
 > with anyone who has. I have never met anyone who this has happened to. Any
 > one out there ever lost a masterlink?
 >
  > >Well the fact is that all modern sportbike manufactureres caution against
 > using
 > them. (clipped masterlinks)
 >
 > Yup. They also caution against using anything but genuine factory parts,
too
 > (chains, filters, lubricants, bulbs, locktite, engine oil, bearings,
seals,
 > gaskets...). I'm guilty there, too. But I haven't been struck by
lightning.
 >
 >
 > Doubting Thomas
 >
 >

Just giving you the facts.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <vh3t5r6qslst55 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, Bruce Woodburn wrote:

 > What's wrong with a slide-on clip? It takes no load and never touches
 > anything on it's endless travels. Ever had one come off after being
 > installed properly?

Everyone knows clips snap off like a sprung paperclip. Might not be a
bad idea to use rivet faseners to hold the gastank down too. Can't have
your tank fly off the bike when riding. That could be dangerous.

I like living on the edge. I've been using clips for nearly 54,000
miles. Sometimes I like to service my bike too. And change the rear
tire.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:50:44 -0400, "Battleax"
<unavailable RemoveThis @thistime.net> wrote:

 >Rivet links do not have hollow pins, only the tip is to allow for a proper
 >rivet.
 >It's the same strength as every other pin.

The ones I ran screaming from a couple of months ago when I put my new
chain on were hollow for about half their length, which mean there was
still about 1/4 of the pin between the sideplates that was hollow.

Steve
95 Buell S2
96 Kawasaki ZX7R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Master links 

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:31:15 -0700, "Bruce Woodburn"
<brucew.TakeThisOut@dccnet.com> wrote:

 >20+ years ago, when I bought a GS1100, I was cautioned to replace the chain
 >ONLY with a continuous chain "because the bike had WAY too much hp for a
 >master link". I did as I was told fist time, removing the swing arm, etc.
 >The next time I went to the dealer for an "endless chain", I was sold one
 >with a master link by the same dealer who had once insisted I never use one.
 >When I asked about the "too much hp" line, he laughed at me and said "ALL
 >the race bike use masterlinks".
 >
 >Many years (many miles and several master link chains) later I bought a
 >1200Bandit and was told by (another) dealer "be sure to replace it with an
 >endless chain because it has WAY too much hp for a master link".
 >
 >OK, what's the poop on master links?. Has anyone had one fail if it's
 >installed properly?
 >
 >Bruce
 >

I've never had the link itself let go. I lost a circlip once, though,
on my FJ1100. I figure it was that way a couple weeks before I
noticed. Bad me, squidlier days.

The FJ, an '84, made about 100 hp at the wheel (big news, back in the
day). I used the toughest chain I could find. It ate one at 20K, and
another at 40K. Like everything else, time and materials technology
marches on. No doubt the 520 on my '03 ZX-6R is easily the match of a
530 or 532 chain from 1984 in terms of tensile strength.

I use riveted links these days. I believe most chains can be ordered
with riveted instead of master links. If not, buy one for seven bucks
from the dealer (special order, from DID, RK, or whoever).

Deerslayer and I have a buddy with a rivet kit. He's quite good at
it. He rivets my chains for nothing, not like I go through chains
very often. His Tiger, in contrast, eats a chain every 10K miles or
less (long story). Anyway, I do the chain and sprocket install at his
garage.

Otherwise, I'd probably put a master link on in my garage, and ride
the bike to a dealer with rivet link in hand (did this here in WA
before meeting my buddy with the kit). The dealer installed the rivet
link for like $15 and ten minutes of their time last time I tried
this, back in '98.

To me its cheap insurance, though I seldom (if ever) hear of master
links flying off these days.


'-----------------------------------------------------
' Daniel Bannon
' NW WA State, U.S.A.
' 2003 ZX-6R, 2000 RSV Mille, 1999 CBR1100XX
'-----------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 >From: "Bruce Woodburn" brucew DeleteThis @dccnet.com

 >OK, what's the poop on master links?. Has anyone had one fail if it's
installed properly?

I bought a used bike once which had the old-style non-O-ring chain with
non-press-on side plate. Got it home after riding a few miles on the freeway
and found that the clip and the side plate were missing...

I raced a GS-1100EZ. The master link clip fell off every race weekend, but the
side plate was pressed on with enough force that it never fell off.

I tried safety-wiring the master link a couple of different ways. But the best
solution was to degrease the clip and the side plate and apply about two drops
of red Loctite to the side plate and then slide the clip on.

I haven't lost a clip in 17 years now. Only downside is that the clip cannot be
easily removed to clean the chain. Loctite need to be heated with a propane
torch to melt the cyanoacrylic plastic. That would damage o-rings and melt the
grease the o-rings are protecting.

When I want to replace a chain with a Loctited master link clip, I whip out the
electric grinder and grind off the
ends of the master link pins and then pry the side plate off with a
screwdriver.

I've never bothered with rivet-type masterlinks...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 >From: "Battleax"

 >A masterlink is perfectly fine, but it must be the rivet type and not the
 >one with the slide-on clip. Most chains come with the clip type masterlink
 >but the rivet type is only another few bucks.
 >Without the proper tool to set the rivet link, you can install the clip type
 >masterlink and ride to a shop to have the rivet type link installed.
 >A properly set rivet link is virtually an "endless chain".
 >B

I've been running DID clip type master link chains on my 916s for some time now
without a problem. At what horsepower should one be concerned? I just purchased
one for the ZRX which is everso much more powerful, but haven't put ot on yet.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Saddlebag" <saddlebag DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030714065534.24752.00000323@mb-m01.aol.com...
  > >From: "Battleax"
 >
  > >A masterlink is perfectly fine, but it must be the rivet type and not the
  > >one with the slide-on clip. Most chains come with the clip type
masterlink
  > >but the rivet type is only another few bucks.
  > >Without the proper tool to set the rivet link, you can install the clip
type
  > >masterlink and ride to a shop to have the rivet type link installed.
  > >A properly set rivet link is virtually an "endless chain".
  > >B
 >
 > I've been running DID clip type master link chains on my 916s for some
time now
 > without a problem. At what horsepower should one be concerned? I just
purchased
 > one for the ZRX which is everso much more powerful, but haven't put ot on
yet.

DID says no clip link, only rivet link. The clips do not stay on at high
speeds.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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