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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:18 pm
Post subject: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles>dirt (more info?)
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Hello everybody,
I am a Phd student at the Technical University of Denmark. Field of
research: Application of DiMethyl-ether in Compression Ignition
Engines. I'll try to make it short but I guess some explanation is
needed:
DiMethyl-ether (in short DME) is a bio-fuel that can replace diesel.
One of the features of DME is that it can be used at much lower
injection pressures than diesel without problems with soot and
particulates in the exhaust gas. Lower pressures means lower cost of
the injection system, which in turn means that compression ignition
operation will be economically feasible in smaller engines than todays
diesel engines = higher engine efficiency.
This brings us to why I am bothering you folks: I am considering
converting an approx. 500cc single cylinder two-stroke engine to DME
operation. I have found that the KX 500 has a number of the features
that I am interested in.
Now unfortunately it seems that they are not being produced anymore,
so I need to find a used specimen.
My questions are now:
Is it possible to find a used KX 500 engine in good shape?
If so, are spare parts readily available?
If you believe it will turn out to be a long term hindrance to me, if
I choose to work on the KX 500, what other options do I have if i
prioritize the following:
1: Reed valve intake
2: Close to square engine design (bore approx. = stroke)
3: Approx. 500cc single cylinder engine
4: Spare parts readily available
I hope you have the time to help me out a bit. Thanks in advance - Kim
R. Hansen |
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External
Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 100
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 141
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kim asks:
> My questions are now:
> Is it possible to find a used KX 500 engine in good shape?
> If so, are spare parts readily available?
Yes and yes. They were made for quite a while and until
fairly recently.
> If you believe it will turn out to be a long term hindrance to me, if
> I choose to work on the KX 500, what other options do I have if i
> prioritize the following:
> 2: Close to square engine design (bore approx. = stroke)
Why? CR500 might be an option but it's not square - 89 x 79
After that, not many 500 two strokes that were built fairly
recently, I don't think. How about a 250? Lots more
choices.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S. >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 23 Jan., 23:36, oldfart <alan.westco... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> If you indeed convert a KX 500 to diesel and keep the existing
> starter, find a good foot doctor first so you know right away who to
> go see.
Ha ha, don't worry I won't be starting it manually  >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 24 Jan., 00:26, sturd <mikesturdevant....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kim asks:
>
> > My questions are now:
> > Is it possible to find a used KX 500 engine in good shape?
> > If so, are spare parts readily available?
>
> Yes and yes. They were made for quite a while and until
> fairly recently.
>
> > If you believe it will turn out to be a long term hindrance to me, if
> > I choose to work on the KX 500, what other options do I have if i
> > prioritize the following:
> > 2: Close to square engine design (bore approx. = stroke)
>
> Why? CR500 might be an option but it's not square - 89 x 79
> After that, not many 500 two strokes that were built fairly
> recently, I don't think. How about a 250? Lots more
> choices.
>
> Go fast. Take chances.
> Mike S.
Square for the following reasons:
1. Square or with slightly larger bore typically scavenges the best
2. Heat losses from the combustion chamber will most likely be lower
with an undersquare design
1+2=Square is probably best
I am aware that 250's are much more common but the smaller the engine
the larger the relative heat loss to the cylinder walls. Therefore
500cc seemed to fit best into my plans.
Where would be the obvious places to search out a used KX 500 engine -
any idea?
- Kim >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 190
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 18, 2007
Posts: 460
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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**************************************
>On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:38:56 -0800 (PST), Kim <slaabakskipper.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 24 Jan., 00:26, sturd <mikesturdevant....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Kim asks:
>>
>> > My questions are now:
>> > Is it possible to find a used KX 500 engine in good shape?
>> > If so, are spare parts readily available?
>>
>> Yes and yes. They were made for quite a while and until
>> fairly recently.
>>
>> > If you believe it will turn out to be a long term hindrance to me, if
>> > I choose to work on the KX 500, what other options do I have if i
>> > prioritize the following:
>> > 2: Close to square engine design (bore approx. = stroke)
>>
>> Why? CR500 might be an option but it's not square - 89 x 79
>> After that, not many 500 two strokes that were built fairly
>> recently, I don't think. How about a 250? Lots more
>> choices.
>>
>> Go fast. Take chances.
>> Mike S.
>
>Square for the following reasons:
>1. Square or with slightly larger bore typically scavenges the best
>2. Heat losses from the combustion chamber will most likely be lower
>with an undersquare design
>1+2=Square is probably best
>
>I am aware that 250's are much more common but the smaller the engine
>the larger the relative heat loss to the cylinder walls. Therefore
>500cc seemed to fit best into my plans.
>
>Where would be the obvious places to search out a used KX 500 engine -
>any idea?
>
> - Kim
**************************************
Local, regional, and national Kawasaki/race/used bike shops
Salvage yard (bike breakers)
Local and province classified ads
Ebay Denmark
If you were in the US, I'd give Sport Wheels a call.
http://sportwheel.com/about.html
They have found some parts for my friends and myself, and were very
helpful and pleasant
But... shipping across the US and to Denmark are two different
animals. You can get a used KX500 in Europe.
Big bore Motocross lasted longer over there than it did in the US.
Parts should be no problem.
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: May 01, 2005
Posts: 1644
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:38:56 -0800 (PST), Kim
<slaabakskipper DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>Where would be the obvious places to search out a used KX 500 engine -
>any idea?
The obvious first choice would be eBay for simplicity and
international scope.
Second for me would be craigslist.org. Lots of local/regional
sites. Can be searched a lot more easily by using one of the
sites like www.crazedlist.org.
----
Go fast and aim for where the trees aren't.
---- >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 136
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:06 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 24 Jan., 04:46, Wudsracer <dirtbike_smackoverRem... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
> **************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:38:56 -0800 (PST), Kim <slaabakskip... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 24 Jan., 00:26, sturd <mikesturdevant... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Kim asks:
>
> >> > My questions are now:
> >> > Is it possible to find a used KX 500 engine in good shape?
> >> > If so, are spare parts readily available?
>
> >> Yes and yes. They were made for quite a while and until
> >> fairly recently.
>
> >> > If you believe it will turn out to be a long term hindrance to me, if
> >> > I choose to work on the KX 500, what other options do I have if i
> >> > prioritize the following:
> >> > 2: Close to square engine design (bore approx. = stroke)
>
> >> Why? CR500 might be an option but it's not square - 89 x 79
> >> After that, not many 500 two strokes that were built fairly
> >> recently, I don't think. How about a 250? Lots more
> >> choices.
>
> >> Go fast. Take chances.
> >> Mike S.
>
> >Square for the following reasons:
> >1. Square or with slightly larger bore typically scavenges the best
> >2. Heat losses from the combustion chamber will most likely be lower
> >with an undersquare design
> >1+2=Square is probably best
>
> >I am aware that 250's are much more common but the smaller the engine
> >the larger the relative heat loss to the cylinder walls. Therefore
> >500cc seemed to fit best into my plans.
>
> >Where would be the obvious places to search out a used KX 500 engine -
> >any idea?
>
> > - Kim
>
> **************************************
>
> Local, regional, and national Kawasaki/race/used bike shops
> Salvage yard (bike breakers)
> Local and province classified ads
> Ebay Denmark
>
> If you were in the US, I'd give Sport Wheels a call.http://sportwheel.com/about.html
> They have found some parts for my friends and myself, and were very
> helpful and pleasant
>
> But... shipping across the US and to Denmark are two different
> animals. You can get a used KX500 in Europe.
> Big bore Motocross lasted longer over there than it did in the US.
>
> Parts should be no problem.
> Wudsracer/Jim Cook
> Smackover Racing
> '06 Gas Gas DE300
> '82 Husqvarna XC250
> Team LAGNAF- Skjul tekst i anførselstegn -
>
> - Vis tekst i anførselstegn -
Thanks for your help guys. There seems to be a big difference in the
market size for used KX 500's between Europe and the US. Ebay shows
not even one complete KX 500. I did find an engine block but in
horrible condition. Craigslist is not really big here either so a
search on "KX 500" reveals nothing at all. Tried if my search method
was wrong by performing the same craigslist search on the US west
coast. Lots of hits.
But, I did manage to find three complete machines on "mobile.de". A
german vehicle classifieds site. Since my german is usable I think I
will dig deeper into that.
So there is still hope that a KX 500 will find itself running without
a spark plug. If so I will of course post some pictures.
Best regards from the Dane >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 118
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:00 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 26, 3:07 am, bob prohaska's usenet account <b... DeleteThis @www.zefox.net>
wrote:
> Kim <slaabakskip... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > So there is still hope that a KX 500 will find itself running without
> > a spark plug. If so I will of course post some pictures.
>
> How will the injection pump be driven?
>
> bob prohaska
Ho are you going to achieve the compression numbers you will need and
how is the lightweight engine going to stand it? >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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bob prohaska's usenet acc
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2005
Posts: 101
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:24 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 Jan., 09:07, bob prohaska's usenet account <b....RemoveThis@www.zefox.net>
wrote:
> Kim <slaabakskip....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So there is still hope that a KX 500 will find itself running without
> > a spark plug. If so I will of course post some pictures.
>
> How will the injection pump be driven?
>
> bob prohaska
The whole idea of this study is to test the power, efficiency and
emissions from a two-stroke engine using DME as fuel. So injection
pressure could simply be delivered from a pressurized reservoir. The
injection nozzle will be electronically controlled. If it turns out,
that power, efficiency and emissions can be brought into the right
range an injection pump (plunger og common-rail style) would have to
be added.
Kim >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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External
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 26 Jan., 14:00, dsc-ky <Dudley.Corn....TakeThisOut@eku.edu> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 3:07 am, bob prohaska's usenet account <b....TakeThisOut@www.zefox.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Kim <slaabakskip....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > So there is still hope that a KX 500 will find itself running without
> > > a spark plug. If so I will of course post some pictures.
>
> > How will the injection pump be driven?
>
> > bob prohaska
>
> Ho are you going to achieve the compression numbers you will need and
> how is the lightweight engine going to stand it?
A new cylinder head will be manufactured. Mechanical reliability is
and issue but rpm will probably not be higher than 4000rpm which will
help somewhat.
The aim is not a commercially succesfull engine but to test the
principles.
The group that I work in have some experience in converting two-stroke
gasoline engines to compression ignition operation. I was involved in
the design of the engine for the vehicle that won the 2007 Shell Eco-
Marathon for "Urban Concept: Combustion engines:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/eco-marathon-en/sem_results/dir_sem_...ults.ht
The engine was a 50cc two-stroke moped engine converted to DME
operation with direct injection. Lots of fun!
Kim >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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bob prohaska's usenet acc
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2005
Posts: 101
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kim <slaabakskipper DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 Jan., 09:07, bob prohaska's usenet account <b... DeleteThis @www.zefox.net>
>>
>> How will the injection pump be driven?
>>
>
> The whole idea of this study is to test the power, efficiency and
> emissions from a two-stroke engine using DME as fuel. So injection
> pressure could simply be delivered from a pressurized reservoir. The
> injection nozzle will be electronically controlled. If it turns out,
Ok, so you're not planning on riding it....
> that power, efficiency and emissions can be brought into the right
> range an injection pump (plunger og common-rail style) would have to
> be added.
Wouldn't a little utility two-stroke be a cheaper, easier platform?
bob prohaska >> Stay informed about: Kawasaki KX 500 - conversion to diesel |
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