Inverted forks compared to Conventional

Darin, your boy would do fine on either. He may need a revalve/springs
on the KX in a year or so, though. (Not because of conventional forks,
but because of faster damping and softer springs on the KX.) I've
heard about clutch problems on the KTMs, and I swore off clutch
problems when I got my kid out of the 50 senior class, but those may
have just been rumors or smoothed over by now. If he's already on KTMs
and you don't mind the extra coin, I would stick with them.

James
00CR250

Darin <sorryIm.DeleteThis@work.com> wrote...
 > I'm starting to look at 65s for my son. This will be a full time
 > motocross race bike. What are the advantages of the inverted forks over
 > conventional. Better handling? Stiffer suspension with stock springs?
 > KX/RM still use conventional where as KTM (what he wants) uses inverted.
 >
 > Thanks
 > Darin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Inverted forks compared to Conventional 

EricB wrote:
 > On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:34:53 -0500, Darin wrote:
 >
 >
  >>I'm starting to look at 65s for my son. This will be a full time
  >>motocross race bike. What are the advantages of the inverted forks over
  >>conventional. Better handling? Stiffer suspension with stock springs?
  >>KX/RM still use conventional where as KTM (what he wants) uses inverted.
  >>
  >>Thanks
  >>Darin
 >
 >
 > Ok, the forks are the least of the differences, but to answer your
 > question. There were only two true technical reasons to go to
 > USD-increased rigidity in the upper end, and reduced unsprung weight.
 > Neighter of which matter one iota on a mini-it's all just marketing. More
 > importantly though, the fork, and rear shock on the KTM is light years
 > better than the KX/RM (having nothing to do with conventional compared to
 > USD). In fact, the whole KTM is light years ahead of the KX. Few kids
 > however, can truly take advantage of the differences at the
 > beginner level. At our track, we normally have about a dozen 65's in the
 > beginner class. It's a crap shoot on whether a KX60, 65, or KTM will win.
 > Generally, the winner is the kid who goes around 5 times without falling
 > down. In the novice class, you really start to see the difference, and
 > the KTM's tend to migrate toward the front, though a good rider on a KX is
 > still very competive. What you need to do, is ask yourself if you really
 > want to pay that much for a bike your kids will probably out grow really
 > quick, and unlike mini playbikes (XR's, PW's, KLX's, JR's), you will take
 > a beating on the resale. If your kids are already novice riders in the 50
 > class, and coming off a 50cc racer (Polini, Cobra), and you have a KNOWN
 > good KTM dealer nearby, by all means buy the KTM. If your kids are coming
 > off playbikes, and are not experienced racers, then get the KX60 or 65.
 > If you aren't planning to race hard core, stay away from both and get him
 > an XR100.
 >
 >

All the 65s have some problems. KXs eating cranks. KTMs cracking hubs.
RMs, shrug, not enough of them around here to tell. I was just curious
if there is any advantage to the USD. The boy is 7. He still has next
year in the 50 class (maybe). He's ready to move up but I'm not ready to
move him up. He rides well enough where he could, but still. I want to
hold him back as long as I can. You can see my previous thread "my sons
race pics" to get an idea of how he rides. No, this won't be a play bike.

Thanks, Eric

Darin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Inverted forks compared to Conventional 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:09:33 -0500, Darin wrote:


Agree, they all have some sort of problem, RM and KX are the identical
bike so have the same probs. Based on your kids pictures, they will
probably do well on anything. If you aren't a big KTM guy, buy the KX.
Send the forks into have them revalved and sprung, and put a WB shock in
back. That will kill the "KX Pogo", and buy a complete replacement top end
to keep in your spares box. After all this, you will still be into it
for less than the KTM. FWIW, you will hear people constantly tell you that
the KX's blow cranks, I used to think that too, but I've come to believe
otherwise. The little bugger's wear out the top end very fast. People put
them off to long, and the skirt breaks off. Then they redo the top end,
and wonder why a short time later, the crank goes.
So far, in our club, and the local track, and people I've talked with on
the internet, every
single 60/65 with a blown crank was either purchased used and the top end
history was unknown, or it had recently broken a skirt. I know about a
1/2 dozen KX 65/RM 65 owners, ranging in years from 2001 to 2004 who
bought their bikes new and replace the pistons religiously every 6 months.
None of them have had a single failure. Frames on the other hand are a
diferent story, and it seems that 01 to 03 had and issue with stress
fractures.

Personally, I kept mine on the little bikes until they were way to damn
big, then bumped them right to 80's. Much cheaper, and the bike options
are much better:-)



 >
 >
 > EricB wrote:
  >> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:34:53 -0500, Darin wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>I'm starting to look at 65s for my son. This will be a full time
   >>>motocross race bike. What are the advantages of the inverted forks over
   >>>conventional. Better handling? Stiffer suspension with stock springs?
   >>>KX/RM still use conventional where as KTM (what he wants) uses
   >>>inverted.
   >>>
   >>>Thanks
   >>>Darin
  >>
  >>
  >> Ok, the forks are the least of the differences, but to answer your
  >> question. There were only two true technical reasons to go to
  >> USD-increased rigidity in the upper end, and reduced unsprung weight.
  >> Neighter of which matter one iota on a mini-it's all just marketing.
  >> More importantly though, the fork, and rear shock on the KTM is light
  >> years better than the KX/RM (having nothing to do with conventional
  >> compared to USD). In fact, the whole KTM is light years ahead of the
  >> KX. Few kids however, can truly take advantage of the differences at
  >> the beginner level. At our track, we normally have about a dozen 65's
  >> in the beginner class. It's a crap shoot on whether a KX60, 65, or KTM
  >> will win. Generally, the winner is the kid who goes around 5 times
  >> without falling down. In the novice class, you really start to see the
  >> difference, and the KTM's tend to migrate toward the front, though a
  >> good rider on a KX is still very competive. What you need to do, is
  >> ask yourself if you really want to pay that much for a bike your kids
  >> will probably out grow really quick, and unlike mini playbikes (XR's,
  >> PW's, KLX's, JR's), you will take a beating on the resale. If your
  >> kids are already novice riders in the 50 class, and coming off a 50cc
  >> racer (Polini, Cobra), and you have a KNOWN good KTM dealer nearby, by
  >> all means buy the KTM. If your kids are coming off playbikes, and are
  >> not experienced racers, then get the KX60 or 65. If you aren't planning
  >> to race hard core, stay away from both and get him an XR100.
  >>
  >>
  >>
 > All the 65s have some problems. KXs eating cranks. KTMs cracking hubs.
 > RMs, shrug, not enough of them around here to tell. I was just curious
 > if there is any advantage to the USD. The boy is 7. He still has next
 > year in the 50 class (maybe). He's ready to move up but I'm not ready to
 > move him up. He rides well enough where he could, but still. I want to
 > hold him back as long as I can. You can see my previous thread "my sons
 > race pics" to get an idea of how he rides. No, this won't be a play
 > bike.
 >
 > Thanks, Eric
 >
 > Darin

--
Eric B-there are too damn many Erics here!
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/Cam/abpcam.asp" target="_blank">http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/Cam/abpcam.asp</a>
2000 XR250, '74 Elsinore MR50 (original owner),
'99 CR80 (11yr old daughter), '96 RM80 (14yr old son), 2000 DS80 (visiting kids).
Remove "nospam" from reply-to<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Inverted forks compared to Conventional 

Can't answer the fork question, but out here in Oregon 80% of the 65cc
at the mx tracks
are ktm's and they do well.

Joe

To old to know any better

Darin wrote:
 > I'm starting to look at 65s for my son. This will be a full time
 > motocross race bike. What are the advantages of the inverted forks over
 > conventional. Better handling? Stiffer suspension with stock springs?
 > KX/RM still use conventional where as KTM (what he wants) uses inverted.
 >
 > Thanks
 > Darin
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Inverted forks compared to Conventional 

EricB wrote:

 > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:09:33 -0500, Darin wrote:
 >
 >
 > Agree, they all have some sort of problem, RM and KX are the identical
 > bike so have the same probs. Based on your kids pictures, they will
 > probably do well on anything. If you aren't a big KTM guy, buy the KX.
 > Send the forks into have them revalved and sprung, and put a WB shock in
 > back. That will kill the "KX Pogo", and buy a complete replacement top end
 > to keep in your spares box. After all this, you will still be into it
 > for less than the KTM. FWIW, you will hear people constantly tell you that
 > the KX's blow cranks, I used to think that too, but I've come to believe
 > otherwise. The little bugger's wear out the top end very fast. People put
 > them off to long, and the skirt breaks off. Then they redo the top end,
 > and wonder why a short time later, the crank goes.
 > So far, in our club, and the local track, and people I've talked with on
 > the internet, every
 > single 60/65 with a blown crank was either purchased used and the top end
 > history was unknown, or it had recently broken a skirt. I know about a
 > 1/2 dozen KX 65/RM 65 owners, ranging in years from 2001 to 2004 who
 > bought their bikes new and replace the pistons religiously every 6 months.
 > None of them have had a single failure. Frames on the other hand are a
 > diferent story, and it seems that 01 to 03 had and issue with stress
 > fractures.
 >
 > Personally, I kept mine on the little bikes until they were way to damn
 > big, then bumped them right to 80's. Much cheaper, and the bike options
 > are much better:-)
 >

No doubt about the bike options once you get to 85s. I wish the other 2
made 65s. And ANY bike besides these little racing 50s will be cheaper
to maintain. I've also heard about the frames on the KX/RMs, too. James
mentioned swearing off clutch problems, well, I'm swearing off frame and
broken motor mount bolt problems. I've easy outed about 4 motor mount
bolts and replaced one broken swing arm bolt this year alone. The faster
he gets the more he breaks. It's great seeing the little guy riding so
well but at the same time cringing every time he lands or goes through
the whoops.

I can pick up a used 03 KTM or KX around here for about the same price
maybe $150 to $200 difference. I think the hydraulic clutch on the
little KTM is worth that. Not to mention the better suspension. Plus I
have a great KTM dealer (Cycle Zone) right down the road.

Thanks for the feedback, Eric.

Darin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Inverted forks compared to Conventional