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Next: Damn! Bostrom & Kawasaki part ways!
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External
Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 46
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:59 pm
Post subject: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!?
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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Suzuki makes electrical parts out of recycle Kirin cans. damn, if the
bike's not up to frying the regulator-rectifier AGAIN.
the old reg-rec burnt out. failed the diode test. the system is kind of
charging at 13.2 V with the old reg-rec. not good. i have a spare so i
hooked it in. spare charges at 14.5V. that's good. both reg-recs get
REALLY hot during operation, which is pretty common. that's why they
have heatsinks.
the stator checks out. it's putting out sufficient AC Volts at 5000 RPM.
what's bothering me: between the stator and the reg-rec, there's a
pigtail of wire about 6" long. it looks like an extension. the wiring
was FRIED. the insulation was cracking off. i'm sure it was shorting.
so, that's gone.
the positive lead coming off the bike is also a little toasty at the
very end and the molex connector is slightly melted. i ran up about 2"
the wire and the insulation is good. there's no resistance between the
end of that wire and where it terminates at the main fuse block. the
ground is also good. there is not cross continuity between the two wires.
grounded straight to the battery, the reg-rec gets hot and the positive
lead at the bike side gets hot. all of the wires on the reg-rec side are
cool.
i just replaced all of the spade connectors in the molex blocks. haven't
run the bike yet as i've got to go to work in an hour. we'll see.
i did a current leak test. it's way within spec. so, no shorts that are
apparent. haven't done a load test to see how many amps the system is
pulling.
dammit! advice, please. i'm pissed and can't think right now.
-Beth |
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External
Since: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 694
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles (more info?)
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In article <bp355i$1iemsn$1@ID-181897.news.uni-berlin.de>, beth says...
>grounded straight to the battery, the reg-rec gets hot and the positive
>lead at the bike side gets hot. all of the wires on the reg-rec side are
>cool.
The *wires* get hot? This should not be.
Do you have another sneak short to ground someplace
on the buss?
The molex connectors really are crap. You are
best off soldering the wires once you sort it
all out.
You might consider splicing an ammeter into the
B+ line off the regulator and see just how much
current the bike is trying to draw - this might
show up a sneak short to ground someplace.
Jim
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 1646
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:20 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Beth ...
I don't know if this will help, but there were a lot of problems with
older Suzuki's electrics.
I Never had any (and I've had a ton of Suzi's) But, any one of them I've
had, I always hooked a ground lead from the reg-rec direct to another
(better) ground. That cures, or seems to, what has been that/a
longstanding problem.
Anyone I've known with a Suzuki that's had trouble, including myself,
has not had any further trouble after dialing into a better/additional
ground, as I described.
moto
There's something wrong with my keyboard.
When I punch in esc, I go nowhere.
'95 750 Nighthawk
'95 Helix >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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moto wrote:
> Beth ...
> I don't know if this will help, but there were a lot of problems with
> older Suzuki's electrics.
> I Never had any (and I've had a ton of Suzi's) But, any one of them I've
> had, I always hooked a ground lead from the reg-rec direct to another
> (better) ground. That cures, or seems to, what has been that/a
> longstanding problem.
>
> Anyone I've known with a Suzuki that's had trouble, including myself,
> has not had any further trouble after dialing into a better/additional
> ground, as I described.
heh. i'll give that a try. that and check for additional shorts. this is
a 2000 SV650. they ALL SUCK!!!
-Beth<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 77
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 73
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Kurt Kesler wrote:
> In article <NC9tb.4146$AK2.35253278@news-text.cableinet.net>,
> reply RemoveThis @ddressnotvalid.now says...
>
>>What Suzuki Beth?
>>
>>I've fitted 3 of the old GS range with honda CB250n and CB650 items and they worked just fine.
>>
>
> I know you are asking Beth but what about an 81 GS450?
actually, yeah, you can use a CX500 reg-rec in an 81 GS450. i owned one.
-Beth, melting Kirin cans.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 77
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> I know you are asking Beth but what about an 81 GS450?
>
That is about the age of bike were they had a lot of troubles.
On some, including my pld 550, you could remove the Suzuki item and fit the honda item on the same
bolt holes.I'm afraid I don't have any fitting instructions, although I remember it being very
straightforward.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 10/11/03<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 950
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:59:34 -0600, beth <user RemoveThis @example.net> wrote:
>Suzuki makes electrical parts out of recycle Kirin cans. damn, if the
>bike's not up to frying the regulator-rectifier AGAIN.
>
>the old reg-rec burnt out. failed the diode test. the system is kind of
>charging at 13.2 V with the old reg-rec. not good. i have a spare so i
>hooked it in. spare charges at 14.5V. that's good. both reg-recs get
>REALLY hot during operation, which is pretty common. that's why they
>have heatsinks.
Assuming the wiring is a ok, it sounds like the regulator is having to
dump too much excess power. Dang Japanese for whatever reason often
mismatch the alternators and regulators.
Try running your bike with an added load like another 60W of lighting
and see if that makes the temp go down. If you're really into
electronic hacking then build your own damn rectifryer!
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores wrote:
> Assuming the wiring is a ok, it sounds like the regulator is having to
> dump too much excess power. Dang Japanese for whatever reason often
> mismatch the alternators and regulators.
>
> Try running your bike with an added load like another 60W of lighting
> and see if that makes the temp go down. If you're really into
> electronic hacking then build your own damn rectifryer!
>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm</font</a>>
all i have to say is:
BIG AMERICAN MUSCLE!!!
-Beth<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 950
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:56:25 -0600, Beth <beffie.RemoveThis@large.org> wrote:
>Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores wrote:
>
>> Assuming the wiring is a ok, it sounds like the regulator is having to
>> dump too much excess power. Dang Japanese for whatever reason often
>> mismatch the alternators and regulators.
>>
>> Try running your bike with an added load like another 60W of lighting
>> and see if that makes the temp go down. If you're really into
>> electronic hacking then build your own damn rectifryer!
>>
<font color=green> >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.mysunrise.ch/users/joerg.hau/mot/voltreg.htm</font</a>>
>
>all i have to say is:
>
>BIG AMERICAN MUSCLE!!!
You know now that you've jogged my memory doesn't the SV650S have TWO
headlights up front? As in an extra 55/60W of juice that your single
beamer doesn't use? I bet you a federal deficit that they both use the
same part #.
If so that'd explain everything, including Suzuki's apparent laziness
in engineering.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Posts: 151
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores <caesar.DeleteThis@casaputana.it> wrote:
>
> You know now that you've jogged my memory doesn't the SV650S have TWO
> headlights up front? As in an extra 55/60W of juice that your single
The S model uses two 45 watt bulbs, so only 30 watts extra draw. Might
still help, but it really shouldn't: the dissipation in the RR is in
principle the same whether it's regulating or rectifying.
> beamer doesn't use? I bet you a federal deficit that they both use the
> same part #.
>
> If so that'd explain everything, including Suzuki's apparent laziness
> in engineering.
The RR on my svs looks like it came from Shindengen, same outfit that makes
the vfr RR. My '98 smoked the original RR and three Electrex units between
about 22 and 25k miles. I modified the wiring like so:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://imlpld1.berkeley.edu/~bob/mc/vfr/vfrfix.gif" target="_blank">http://imlpld1.berkeley.edu/~bob/mc/vfr/vfrfix.gif</a>
and the second OEM unit has lasted a little over 32k miles.
My '01 svs seems to be ok, but it only has about 8k miles on it.
It's almost as if the RR goes into a self-destruct mode if it does not
see accurate battery voltage. The wiring design on the svs is _much_
better than the vfr in this respect, but it may not be good enough.
My guess is that the RR overheats, the rectifier section starts
to leak current backwards through the stator and eventually the
regulator shorts out letting the battery fry things. The stator
can't deliver excess current, but the battery can.
Beth might find it worthwhile to carefully measure the voltage
_difference_ between the RR output and battery input. If it's
more than a tenth of a volt it's worth fixing.
hth
bob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 46
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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bob prohaska wrote:
> The RR on my svs looks like it came from Shindengen, same outfit that makes
> the vfr RR. My '98 smoked the original RR and three Electrex units between
> about 22 and 25k miles. I modified the wiring like so:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://imlpld1.berkeley.edu/~bob/mc/vfr/vfrfix.gif</font" target="_blank">http://imlpld1.berkeley.edu/~bob/mc/vfr/vfrfix.gif</font</a>>
> and the second OEM unit has lasted a little over 32k miles.
> My '01 svs seems to be ok, but it only has about 8k miles on it.
i was thinking of something similar. my idea was running an extra, heavy
duty fused line to the + terminal on the battery from the reg-rec and
running another ground straight to the battery. since the system is
fused, it should be OK if something Goes Wrong(tm).
what does the accessory relay do, other than powering accessories? 
ditch the Molex connectors too.
> Beth might find it worthwhile to carefully measure the voltage
> _difference_ between the RR output and battery input. If it's
> more than a tenth of a volt it's worth fixing.
will do. i've got the bike apart anyhow. might as well FIX it.
any further advice? thanks, btw.
-Beth<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 694
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:07 pm
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles (more info?)
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In article <bp5jfs$1k1vkb$1@ID-181897.news.uni-berlin.de>, beth says...
>any further advice?
Put a temporary ammeter in series with
the output lead that runs from the
regulator to the + buss on the bike.
Then you can find out if the failure
is from too much current being drawn
by the bike, or if the fail and
overheat is internal to the regulator
itself.
And get rid of the molex connectors.
Solder and heat shrink.
Jim
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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External
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Posts: 151
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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beth <user.DeleteThis@example.net> wrote:
> i was thinking of something similar. my idea was running an extra, heavy
> duty fused line to the + terminal on the battery from the reg-rec and
> running another ground straight to the battery. since the system is
> fused, it should be OK if something Goes Wrong(tm).
Sounds ok. I'd make soldered splices directly into the RR output
wires if the RR output connector looks good.
> what does the accessory relay do, other than powering accessories?
Nothing...  Hotgrips and cornering lights, that's it.
>
> ditch the Molex connectors too.
The quick connects on the sv aren't so much too small; if they've
overheated then sure, replace them. If they look and measure ok I'd
leave well enough alone.
> will do. i've got the bike apart anyhow. might as well FIX it.
>
> any further advice? thanks, btw.
Looking at the schematic for an '01 it appears the starter relay
holds the main fuse, which services _only_ the battery. That's
the right way to do things, I'd look for mischief between the
starter relay and the RR. Could be in either the hot or ground side.
Probably _not_ on the battery cable side. [famous last words]
If you decide to stick with the wiring you add I'd pull the main
fuse out of the starter and rely on your added fuse; that's roughly
what I did with my vfr. You want the connection between RR and battery
to serve no other loads; If you're bypassing a bad connection from
RR to battery you want to make sure the new wiring isn't loaded by
the old fault.
bob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: V=IR and WTF is wrong with my bike's eletrical system!?!?!? |
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