What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP

As Bayliss pointed out; the 2003 bikes have been nicely sorted-out by
Capirossi and he but the 2004 bikes are all-new.
--
Clem
["More people get their news from channel 9 than from any other source" ...
(sob)]
~
"loftboy" <dddlc.RemoveThis@removeknickers.hunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
news:rkd8901coitoft5cmn0sjen81g1mlfbvt8@4ax.com...
 > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is 3
 > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
 >
 > What's happened to all the off-season speed. Are they really 3 seconds
 > off the pace or is the Spanish track short & tight like SA. At least
 > Baylis is not far off his "team mate" this time.
 > -------------------------------------------------
 > removeknickers first before replying via e-mail<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




More than they are worth
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TerracottaWarrior®" <hatzolah.RemoveThis@hotmail.com®> wrote in message
news:c748g2$9gc$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
 >
 > "loftboy" <dddlc.RemoveThis@removeknickers.hunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
 > news:rkd8901coitoft5cmn0sjen81g1mlfbvt8@4ax.com...
  > > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is 3
  > > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
 >
 > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....
 >
  > > What's happened to all the off-season speed. Are they really 3 seconds
  > > off the pace or is the Spanish track short & tight like SA. At least
  > > Baylis is not far off his "team mate" this time.
 >
 > Ducati are using the races to develop the bike,This is not a excuse,they
 > dont have unlimited budget so thats the best they are going to be able to
do

That's a good one.. So you build a brand new bike, then you run a sattelite
team with your old bikes.. How are you supposed to get relevant data from
the Sattelite bikes if the new ones are completrely redesigned from the nuts
and bolts up?

 > Only Dukes 2nd year while the Japs have had DECADES head start

Saying the Japaenese have had a head start is a little on the
load-of-bollocks side. If Ducati can enter into a completely new arena, and
build a bloody Land to Air (ok.. land to land) missle, then the fact that
they're still unable to get the power to the ground properly should be seen
as something they need to work on, not restart and re design from scratch.
And I'm pretty sure Ducati have been making V-Engine bikes a hell of a lot
longer than honda...
They don't have time. Look at Yamaha. Sure they got the best rider and the
best team, but they took a sub standard bike (where were the other yammis?
23seconds behind?) and put it on top. From all their experience in WSBK, you
can't tell me that Ducati is incapable of this. I'm sure they've channeled
all their Corse resources into MotoGP from the WSBK. And you can't try and
build a race bike during the season.. Don't they have enough tracks they
could've used to do pre-season testing and rework?
If they don't pick their game up quick, all I see it doing is depressing
guys like Bayliss and Caparossi who are trying to hang on to a raging bull
by a tuft of it's mayne while trying to beat guys whos manufacturers
understand what testing is all about.
Think back to thew year when Bayliss and Edwards were duelling for the SBK
championship. Ducati seemed to have no come back when Edwards got the 'go
fast bits' from Honda.
I wonder how much Politicking is going on behind the scenes. I think that's
one of the things that really holds teams back from being where they could
potentially be.

--
TB
'03 CBR600F4i
'99 GSXR600
'88 CBR250R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TB" <TB.DeleteThis@Bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4095f854$0$16578$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...
 > "TerracottaWarrior®" <hatzolah.DeleteThis@hotmail.com®> wrote in message
 > news:c748g2$9gc$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
  > >
  > > "loftboy" <dddlc.DeleteThis@removeknickers.hunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
  > > news:rkd8901coitoft5cmn0sjen81g1mlfbvt8@4ax.com...
   > > > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is 3
   > > > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
  > >
  > > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....
  > >
   > > > What's happened to all the off-season speed. Are they really 3 seconds
   > > > off the pace or is the Spanish track short & tight like SA. At least
   > > > Baylis is not far off his "team mate" this time.
  > >
  > > Ducati are using the races to develop the bike,This is not a excuse,they
  > > dont have unlimited budget so thats the best they are going to be able
to
 > do
 >
 > That's a good one.. So you build a brand new bike, then you run a
sattelite
 > team with your old bikes.. How are you supposed to get relevant data from
 > the Sattelite bikes if the new ones are completrely redesigned from the
nuts
 > and bolts up?

I doubt they are taking any notice of last years bike,they are developing
the 04' model, thats the future and best potential.
What has hit them bad is that last years is currently faster,i would not
allow that to happen makes you look silly....

  > > Only Dukes 2nd year while the Japs have had DECADES head start
 >
 > Saying the Japaenese have had a head start is a little on the
 > load-of-bollocks side. If Ducati can enter into a completely new arena,
and
 > build a bloody Land to Air (ok.. land to land) missle, then the fact that
 > they're still unable to get the power to the ground properly should be
seen
 > as something they need to work on, not restart and re design from scratch.
 > And I'm pretty sure Ducati have been making V-Engine bikes a hell of a lot
 > longer than honda...

Yes they have plenty of experience,the problem [and this is reflected in the
SBK riders skill or lack their of] is that MotoGP technology is a step up
from SBK racing,its the premier class so a tougher nut to crack.

 > They don't have time. Look at Yamaha. Sure they got the best rider and the
 > best team, but they took a sub standard bike (where were the other yammis?
 > 23seconds behind?) and put it on top

Maybe its just haonda with 6 bikes and seasoned riders and the largest
budget are a tough competitiors


From all their experience in WSBK, you
 > can't tell me that Ducati is incapable of this. I'm sure they've channeled
 > all their Corse resources into MotoGP from the WSBK. And you can't try and
 > build a race bike during the season.. Don't they have enough tracks they
 > could've used to do pre-season testing and rework?

In theory track- testing is a waste of time [ask LarryPerkins] by the time
the bike hits the track it should already be 99% correct,the track testing
is for fine tuning,all it shows is that the design team have got it wrong on
this occasion


 > If they don't pick their game up quick, all I see it doing is depressing
 > guys like Bayliss and Caparossi who are trying to hang on to a raging bull
 > by a tuft of it's mayne while trying to beat guys whos manufacturers
 > understand what testing is all about.

Those riders are married to Ducati,they can leave if they want but they will
not be getting a better ride any where else,where could they move to?If i
where Ducati i would sign them NOW for the future,would show trust in them
and get next season and beyond, out of the riders heads so they can be
focused on the racing

 > Think back to thew year when Bayliss and Edwards were duelling for the SBK
 > championship. Ducati seemed to have no come back when Edwards got the 'go
 > fast bits' from Honda.

Edwards/haonda came back from summer holiday period on-fire,then Xaus
running into Bayliss,a few bad races and the tables turned,shows it is not
over till its over...

 > I wonder how much Politicking is going on behind the scenes. I think
that's
 > one of the things that really holds teams back from being where they could
 > potentially be.

You could say that of all the non haonda teams, i believe that Ducati will
get to the front,my regret is that Aprilia wont [Aprilia have a new RS-Cube
out in June] been a total disaster and with funds tight the whole project
might get the axe....

CDIHL


 >
 > --
 > TB
 > '03 CBR600F4i
 > '99 GSXR600
 > '88 CBR250R
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TerracottaWarrior=AE" wrote:
 > =

 > "loftboy" <dddlc.RemoveThis@removeknickers.hunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
 > news:rkd8901coitoft5cmn0sjen81g1mlfbvt8@4ax.com...
  > > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is 3=

  > > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
 > =

 > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....

Unless it's a wet race.. =


Nev..
'03 ZX12R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"Nev.." <idiot RemoveThis @mindless.com> wrote in message
news:4096327A.736669FB@mindless.com...
"TerracottaWarrior®" wrote:
 >
 > "loftboy" <dddlc RemoveThis @removeknickers.hunterlink.net.au> wrote in message
 > news:rkd8901coitoft5cmn0sjen81g1mlfbvt8@4ax.com...
  > > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is 3
  > > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
 >
 > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....

Unless it's a wet race..

Which would means Rossi wont be up front....

CDIHL

Nev..
'03 ZX12R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

Nev.. how many times do we have to tell u
Dont bring facts in to an arguement with hatz.
 >
 >Unless it's a wet race..
 >
 >Nev..
 >'03 ZX12R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TerracottaWarrior=AE" wrote:

   > > > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....
 > =

  > > Unless it's a wet race..
 > =

 > Which would means Rossi wont be up front....

=2E..because in the wet he's struggling to make it into the top half doze=
n
riders. That does not make him SMARTER, it makes him SLOWER.. if he was
SMARTER he'd have won the race and not crashed. Ayrton Senna is not rega=
rded
as one of the greatest F1 drivers because he chose to concede podium posi=
tions
in the wet and concede the lead in the championship. =


Nev..
'03 ZX12R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"Nev.." <idiot.TakeThisOut@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:4096FEB4.C45C15CA@mindless.com...
"TerracottaWarrior®" wrote:

   > > > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....
 >
  > > Unless it's a wet race..
 >
 > Which would means Rossi wont be up front....

....because in the wet he's struggling to make it into the top half dozen
riders. That does not make him SMARTER, it makes him SLOWER.. if he was
SMARTER he'd have won the race and not crashed. Ayrton Senna is not
regarded
as one of the greatest F1 drivers because he chose to concede podium
positions
in the wet and concede the lead in the championship.

Thats another spin on it,but perhaps if Senna backed off when he thought
something was wrong he may still have been around today,he said "God Will
Protect Me".....

Rossi does not believe in Gods help he believes in himself,no need for Rossi
to risk it and injure himself in slippery conditions

Look on the bright side highly unusual that we would have more than 2 or 3
wet races in a season

Looking foward to LeMans in 2 Sundays time,and Sete being put back in his
box

CDIHL<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TerracottaWarrior=AE" wrote:

 > Looking foward to LeMans in 2 Sundays time,and Sete being put back in h=
is
 > box

Keep paddling...

ROUND 4 - France, Le Mans May 25, 2003. MotoGP Winner Sete Gibernau.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TerracottaWarrior®" wrote
 >
 > "TB" wrote
  > > "TerracottaWarrior®" wrote
   > > >
   > > > "loftboy" wrote
   > > > > Did I read the starting grid correctly - The 2003 Ducati of Xaus is
3
   > > > > spots (12th vs. 15th) ahead of the Factory bike of Capirossi.
   > > >
   > > > A wet practice so the times mean nothing....
   > > >
   > > > > What's happened to all the off-season speed. Are they really 3
seconds
   > > > > off the pace or is the Spanish track short & tight like SA. At least
   > > > > Baylis is not far off his "team mate" this time.
   > > >
   > > > Ducati are using the races to develop the bike,This is not a
excuse,they
   > > > dont have unlimited budget so thats the best they are going to be able
 > to
  > > do
  > >
  > > That's a good one.. So you build a brand new bike, then you run a
 > sattelite
  > > team with your old bikes.. How are you supposed to get relevant data
from
  > > the Sattelite bikes if the new ones are completrely redesigned from the
 > nuts
  > > and bolts up?
 >
 > I doubt they are taking any notice of last years bike,they are developing
 > the 04' model, thats the future and best potential.
 > What has hit them bad is that last years is currently faster,i would not
 > allow that to happen makes you look silly....

It makes sence because last year's bike has a whole year's track time and
development on it. I'd really really like to know why they deviated from
that and went all new this year.

 >
 > Yes they have plenty of experience,the problem [and this is reflected in
the
 > SBK riders skill or lack their of] is that MotoGP technology is a step up
 > from SBK racing,its the premier class so a tougher nut to crack.

Technology wise it isn't that different. The Chassis maybe be different, but
why not go a tweaked production chassis till they can sort something for the
GP class? In this day and age where CAE/FEA and virtual modeling of
anything's possible (ref: University of Padua (sp) and their PhD courses in
Modern Sportbike dynamics etc) why can't they make a better platform they
can build on, without having to resort to the old school
Prototype-test-redesign theory..

 > Maybe its just haonda with 6 bikes and seasoned riders and the largest
 > budget are a tough competitiors

Yes, but we're comparing Yamaha here. Would it make much difference if JB
and Rossi and the crew went to Ducati and the italians pulled something like
this on them? A whole year of work wasted because the settings on one bike
don't easily translate the same results on another bike..

 > In theory track- testing is a waste of time [ask LarryPerkins] by the time
 > the bike hits the track it should already be 99% correct,the track testing
 > is for fine tuning,all it shows is that the design team have got it wrong
on
 > this occasion

IMO track testing is to get a bike to suit the individual rider. You design
the platfrom on computers then you build it, then you tweak it.

 > Those riders are married to Ducati,they can leave if they want but they
will
 > not be getting a better ride any where else,where could they move to?If i
 > where Ducati i would sign them NOW for the future,would show trust in them
 > and get next season and beyond, out of the riders heads so they can be
 > focused on the racing

Agreed on the signing. Bringing in a new rider is the same as bringing in a
new bike, with maybe a smaller learning curve.

 > Edwards/haonda came back from summer holiday period on-fire,then Xaus
 > running into Bayliss,a few bad races and the tables turned,shows it is not
 > over till its over...
 >
  > > I wonder how much Politicking is going on behind the scenes. I think
 > that's
  > > one of the things that really holds teams back from being where they
could
  > > potentially be.
 >
 > You could say that of all the non haonda teams, i believe that Ducati will
 > get to the front,my regret is that Aprilia wont [Aprilia have a new
RS-Cube
 > out in June] been a total disaster and with funds tight the whole project
 > might get the axe....

They damn well better or they'll be like the kid in class who always
finished their exams first only to have half the answers wrong.

--
TB
'03 CBR600F4i
'99 GSXR600
'88 CBR250R<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"TB" <TB.RemoveThis@Bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:40974abb$0$16580$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...

   > > > That's a good one.. So you build a brand new bike, then you run a
  > > sattelite
   > > > team with your old bikes.. How are you supposed to get relevant data
 > from
   > > > the Sattelite bikes if the new ones are completrely redesigned from
the
  > > nuts
   > > > and bolts up?

  > > I doubt they are taking any notice of last years bike,they are
developing
  > > the 04' model, thats the future and best potential.
  > > What has hit them bad is that last years is currently faster,i would not
  > > allow that to happen makes you look silly....

 > It makes sence because last year's bike has a whole year's track time and
 > development on it. I'd really really like to know why they deviated from
 > that and went all new this year.

Because they *thought* they where smart and could go fowards easily, after
not to bad a show first year out,they perhaps have changed to much and now
putting it all back again ?


  > > Yes they have plenty of experience,the problem [and this is reflected in
 > the
  > > SBK riders skill or lack their of] is that MotoGP technology is a step
up
  > > from SBK racing,its the premier class so a tougher nut to crack.
 >
 > Technology wise it isn't that different. The Chassis maybe be different,
but
 > why not go a tweaked production chassis till they can sort something for
the
 > GP class? In this day and age where CAE/FEA and virtual modeling of
 > anything's possible (ref: University of Padua (sp) and their PhD courses
in
 > Modern Sportbike dynamics etc) why can't they make a better platform they
 > can build on, without having to resort to the old school
 > Prototype-test-redesign theory..

Hell, i want them to win more than you,and shove it up Biggarses arse )

They are today at the same track testing and developing,hope it is good for
them,i think it is a very complex matter and what looks good on PC and so-on
does not mean it will work as well in real world,the results are that Troy
on race tyres went quicker than at any other time during the dry portion of
the weekend,some good news i suppose.

Testing is to continue all week in Italy by the test rider/team,and a lot of
middnight oil burnt at Bologna

  > > Maybe its just haonda with 6 bikes and seasoned riders and the largest
  > > budget are a tough competitiors
 >
 > Yes, but we're comparing Yamaha here. Would it make much difference if JB
 > and Rossi and the crew went to Ducati and the italians pulled something
like
 > this on them? A whole year of work wasted because the settings on one bike
 > don't easily translate the same results on another bike..

Rossi is a freak,he could prob. win on just about anything [with JB and co
helping of course],but really i DONT want him at Ducati because then they
will say it is him that wins and not the bike,i want the 2 great riders they
have now to win on it

 >
  > > In theory track- testing is a waste of time [ask LarryPerkins] by the
time
  > > the bike hits the track it should already be 99% correct,the track
testing
  > > is for fine tuning,all it shows is that the design team have got it
wrong
 > on
  > > this occasion
 >
 > IMO track testing is to get a bike to suit the individual rider. You
design
 > the platfrom on computers then you build it, then you tweak it.

I would like a 999RS SBK racer on slicks up against it,perhaps over 25 laps
it could be quicker ?

 >
  > > Those riders are married to Ducati,they can leave if they want but they
 > will
  > > not be getting a better ride any where else,where could they move to?If
i
  > > where Ducati i would sign them NOW for the future,would show trust in
them
  > > and get next season and beyond, out of the riders heads so they can be
  > > focused on the racing
 >
 > Agreed on the signing. Bringing in a new rider is the same as bringing in
a
 > new bike, with maybe a smaller learning curve.
 >
  > > Edwards/haonda came back from summer holiday period on-fire,then Xaus
  > > running into Bayliss,a few bad races and the tables turned,shows it is
not
  > > over till its over...
  > >
   > > > I wonder how much Politicking is going on behind the scenes. I think
  > > that's
   > > > one of the things that really holds teams back from being where they
 > could
   > > > potentially be.
  > >
  > > You could say that of all the non haonda teams, i believe that Ducati
will
  > > get to the front,my regret is that Aprilia wont [Aprilia have a new
 > RS-Cube
  > > out in June] been a total disaster and with funds tight the whole
project
  > > might get the axe....
 >
 > They damn well better or they'll be like the kid in class who always
 > finished their exams first only to have half the answers wrong.

LOL ,i think it is like Mitsubishi Magna,far to much has been spent to kill
it off,Aprilia have been making progress backwards since day 1 on the
Cube,what they need to do [only my idea] pull the motor out and stick it in
the 250cc frame,Ducati will get to the front,that i am sure of,Aprilia is
going nowhere at the moment,they went far to radical
Poggiali is to be the rider for it next year,he is ok but the bike would
have to be spot on if he has any chance to win on it

Best they all get a hurry up as MvAgusta will be back in a few years,and
they will kick arse

CDIHL

 >
 > --
 > TB
 > '03 CBR600F4i
 > '99 GSXR600
 > '88 CBR250R
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP 

"Nev.." <idiot DeleteThis @mindless.com> wrote in message
news:409724DD.FA236B39@mindless.com...
"TerracottaWarrior®" wrote:

 > Looking foward to LeMans in 2 Sundays time,and Sete being put back in his
 > box

Keep paddling...

ROUND 4 - France, Le Mans May 25, 2003. MotoGP Winner Sete Gibernau.

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck your a nevwit

(still got that race on tape)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What's Happened to Ducati in MotoGP