Griso 8v

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2008-moto-guzzi-griso-8v-68608.html
>
> "And yet, the spec sheet numbers or anything I've read about this new
> motor couldn't prepare me to what happens when you hit 5000-5500 rpm.
> The new-school big-block-based motor starts to bark like a scalded
> dog, pulling madly to 8000 and accelerating the Griso in almost
> violent fashion. My eyes catch a glimpse of the rev meter's needle
> flying about, my bum feels the trust, my arms tense but still, deep
> inside I can't believe it's a Guzzi. Where's this and where's my old,
> lazy and long-legged Le Mans III?
>
> According to the specs, overall gearing seems to have grown compared
> to the 1100 Griso but still is on the short side of short, and through
> the frantic acceleration I find myself booting the gears in a very
> un-Guzzi-like, rapid-fire fashion. The hike in power at top end is so
> steep that with this shortish gearing, at 100 mph in top gear, the
> pull actually seems to grow stronger, and seconds later my neck
> muscles have to fight against the 120-mph air blast. Therefore, any
> "what she'll do?" checks became irrelevant quite quickly. I have
> little doubt that the Griso could do, un-faired as it is, 130-140 mph,
> but it's a totally unpractical proposition.
>
> When the time to slow down a bit came about, the wavy rotors and fully
> radial Brembo set up did an excellent job. There's plenty of power and
> braking feel in there for road use."
>
> Zebee

"my bum feels the trust" ??????????
PP.
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

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 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

Zebee Johnstone <zebeej DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> The hike in power at top end is so
> steep that with this shortish gearing, at 100 mph in top gear, the
> pull actually seems to grow stronger, and seconds later my neck
> muscles have to fight against the 120-mph air blast.

You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "It's only doing 120 several whole
seconds after opening the throttle at 100? Pffft! a couple of plug leads
must have fallen off! (Oh, hang on...)"



big

--
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all passionate authentic experiences will be appropriated, mishandled,
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 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

Iain Chalmers wrote:
>
> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
> at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>

Probably

But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
other naked bikes.

The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
model makes substantially more). The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.

The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.

YMMV


G-S
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

G-S wrote:
> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>>
>> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing
>> (again) at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
> >
>
> Probably
>
> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
> other naked bikes.
>
> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
> model makes substantially more). The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.
>
> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.

Well, in the unlikely event of anyone actually getting one, a Triumph
Street Triple is supposed to have 108 ps, from 675 cc.

I suppose I should wait to see _both_ Triumph and Guzzi, but I'm just
forced to snigger.

My mythical motorcycle is better than your mythical motorcycle....

regards,
CrazyCam
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On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:19:17 +1100, Iain Chalmers
<bigiain RemoveThis @mightymedia.com.au> wrote:

>Zebee Johnstone <zebeej RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The hike in power at top end is so
>> steep that with this shortish gearing, at 100 mph in top gear, the
>> pull actually seems to grow stronger, and seconds later my neck
>> muscles have to fight against the 120-mph air blast.
>
>You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
>at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "It's only doing 120 several whole
>seconds after opening the throttle at 100? Pffft! a couple of plug leads
>must have fallen off! (Oh, hang on...)"
>
>
>
>big

No No... Bigi, the Jap bikes will still be in 3rd gear!

Johno

Coopers?
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CrazyCam wrote:
> G-S wrote:
>> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>>>
>>> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing
>>> (again) at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>> >
>>
>> Probably
>>
>> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing
>> against other naked bikes.
>>
>> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
>> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
>> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end
>> 4V model makes substantially more). The new BMW R1200R makes about
>> the same.
>>
>> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
>> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
>> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.
>
> Well, in the unlikely event of anyone actually getting one, a Triumph
> Street Triple is supposed to have 108 ps, from 675 cc.
>
> I suppose I should wait to see _both_ Triumph and Guzzi, but I'm just
> forced to snigger.
>
> My mythical motorcycle is better than your mythical motorcycle....
>
> regards,
> CrazyCam

I think you are mything the point of owning a Guzzi


G-S
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

On Feb 3, 6:52 pm, Johno <varc....TakeThisOut@msn.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:19:17 +1100, Iain Chalmers
> <bigi....TakeThisOut@mightymedia.com.au> wrote:
> >Zebee Johnstone <zeb....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The hike in power at top end is so
> >> steep that with this shortish gearing, at 100 mph in top gear, the
> >> pull actually seems to grow stronger, and seconds later my neck
> >> muscles have to fight against the 120-mph air blast.
>
> >You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
> >at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "It's only doing 120 several whole
> >seconds after opening the throttle at 100? Pffft! a couple of plug leads
> >must have fallen off! (Oh, hang on...)"
>
> >
>
> >big
>
> No No... Bigi, the Jap bikes will still be in 3rd gear!

Only if they shortshifted early out of second...

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

On Feb 3, 3:13 pm, G-S <ge....RemoveThis@castbus.com.au> wrote:
> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>
> > You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
> > at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>
>  >
>
> Probably
>
> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
> other naked bikes.
>
> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
> model makes substantially more).  The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.
>
> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.
>
> YMMV

'Ang on a second, if you're going to compare tech specs, you'd better
line up apples with oranges, as we all know it's not just HP that
counts, it's power to weight. Assuming the above article is accurate,
489pounds equals 222Kg DRY weight.

So...with 108Hp and 245Kg wet (plus or minus 5Kg), just about every
bike you've mentioned (and you left off my bike - X Raptor) is going
to have significantly better numbers. Same HP but much lighter.

My bike is comparatively long in the tooth but
2004 X raptor 215Kg wet and dyno'd at 112HP (stock is 104).
http://www.cagiva.com.au/welcome/docs/XtraRaptor1000spec.pdf

The SV1000 has the same power at the griso 108HP (according to you,
it's not on the website but your number sounds about right) and 186kg
dry plus 17(fuel) + 3 (oil) so say 206 -> 210Kg tops
http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/specifications.php?intBikeID=148

Aprilia Tuono
Factory - 139Hp, 181Kg dry plus 18L + oil say 22Kg - 203Kg 205 tops
The lower spec Tuono has the same HP and weighs an extra 4Kg so call
it 205 -210Kg

http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuonofactory07.pdf
http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuono2007.pdf

Ducati 2V 1000 is 178Kg dry, and 95Hp plus 14L plus 4L of oil, say
196Kg -200 tops. The 4V S4R is 177Kg dry so say under 200kg and 130Hp.

So what you really meant is compared to other Guzzis it's a high
performance model ?

I don't mean to knock it - it looks and sounds like it'll be a lot of
fun, but as a naked twin sports bike it's the fat kid a lap down in
the 800m at the school sports carnival...

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

On Feb 4, 2:35 pm, atec77 <atec77NOS....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> JL wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 3:13 pm, G-S <ge....TakeThisOut@castbus.com.au> wrote:
> >> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>
> >>> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
> >>> at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>
> >> Probably
>
> >> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
> >> other naked bikes.
>
> >> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
> >> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
> >> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
> >> model makes substantially more).  The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.
>
> >> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
> >> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
> >> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.
>
> >> YMMV
>
> > 'Ang on a second, if you're going to compare tech specs, you'd better
> > line up apples with oranges, as we all know it's not just HP that
> > counts, it's power to weight. Assuming the above article is accurate,
> > 489pounds equals 222Kg DRY weight.
>
> > So...with 108Hp and 245Kg wet (plus or minus 5Kg), just about every
> > bike you've mentioned (and you left off my bike - X Raptor) is going
> > to have significantly better numbers. Same HP but much lighter.
>
> > My bike is comparatively long in the tooth but
> > 2004 X raptor 215Kg wet and dyno'd at 112HP (stock is 104).
> >http://www.cagiva.com.au/welcome/docs/XtraRaptor1000spec.pdf
>
> > The SV1000 has the same power at the griso 108HP (according to you,
> > it's not on the website but your number sounds about right) and 186kg
> > dry plus 17(fuel) + 3 (oil) so say 206 -> 210Kg tops
> >http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/specifications.php?intBikeID=148
>
> > Aprilia Tuono
> > Factory - 139Hp, 181Kg dry plus 18L + oil say 22Kg - 203Kg 205 tops
> > The lower spec Tuono has the same HP and weighs an extra 4Kg so call
> > it 205 -210Kg
>
> >http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuonofactory07.pdf
> >http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuono2007.pdf
>
> > Ducati 2V 1000 is 178Kg dry, and 95Hp plus 14L plus 4L of oil, say
> > 196Kg -200 tops. The 4V S4R is 177Kg dry so say under 200kg and 130Hp.
>
> > So what you really meant is compared to other Guzzis it's a high
> > performance model ?
>
> > I don't mean to knock it - it looks and sounds like it'll be a lot of
> > fun, but as a naked twin sports bike it's the fat kid a lap down in
> > the 800m at the school sports carnival...
>
> > JL
>
> What about torque and of course the big one , how and where the "power"
> comes on ?

Well if you're driving a truck, or the motorcycle equivalent (a 350Kg
cruiser) then yeah, torque matters, but power to weight is what
matters on a sports bike.

Yes the 1200 Guzzi will undoubtably have more torque, but that's not
going to help fix it's obesity problem. Will probably make it easier
to get up on the back wheel though !

It's down 30HP on the naked twins in the same price category, and it's
10 -15grand dearer than bikes with the same HP but far better power to
weight. It's a nice try but it's going to continue to be a niche
player for the died in the wool guzzisti and those who want something
different. In other words I'd probably buy one if I had unlimited
funds and a very large shed !!

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

On Feb 4, 6:19 pm, G-S <ge....TakeThisOut@castbus.com.au> wrote:
> JL wrote:
>
> > It's down 30HP on the naked twins in the same price category, and it's
> > 10 -15grand dearer than bikes with the same HP but far better power to
> > weight.
>
> 30HP?
>
> It's actually about 20hp *up* on the air cooled Ducati Monster 1000
> series and a similar amount up on the Buells.

Maaaate. Read what I wrote. It's down 30HP on the twins IN THE SAME
PRICE (ie the tuono and the S4R), the Jap twins are heaps cheaper and
even the 2V Monster 1000 is noticeably less I think (note going from
memory on that last one).

I did forget about the Buell though - yeah the Buell and the Griso are
in the same market space - price and power to weight (although for
different reasons).

> As I already mentioned the 4 valve dukes and the tuono make more power.
>
> As for power to weight the cheaper japanese alternatives don't have
> terribly good suspension and good suspension will go quite some way to
> making up for the weight differential.
>
> But hey... if you can find a 2 valve Duke monster owner, and a VTR1000F
> owner and an SV1000S owner and a BMW R1200 owner and a Tuono owner and a
> Buell owner I'd be interested in doing performance tests

VTR isn't a naked, it's a semi naked same as the SV1000S btw, but
ignoring that minor pedanticism, yeah the Buell is in a similar space.
I'd have thought the R12 lined up against the Breva not the Griso -
it's clearly a sports tourer not a naked sports bike. Ditto the VTR
its not a naked sports never was - always aimed as a sports tourer.

So line up the SV1000, a Tuono Factory R, a Griso8V, the 2v and the 4v
Monster and you've got a fair comparo. Having ridden 3 of the 5, (not
the S4R or the Griso 8V) and having read that test I'm pretty sure I
know which wins as the outright naked sports bike (Factory R - but a
short arse like me would probably buy the S4R for the ergonomics).
Bangs for buck it's the SV1000 - at all of about 13K on road even if
you add 2K for an ohlins shock you've still got plenty of change in
your pocket over the Griso.

And no, suspension doesn't compensate for heft, it just allows you to
do the weightlifting more smoothly !

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

JL wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:13 pm, G-S <ge... RemoveThis @castbus.com.au> wrote:
>> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>>
>>> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
>>> at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>> >
>>
>> Probably
>>
>> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
>> other naked bikes.
>>
>> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
>> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
>> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
>> model makes substantially more). The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.
>>
>> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
>> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
>> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.
>>
>> YMMV
>
> 'Ang on a second, if you're going to compare tech specs, you'd better
> line up apples with oranges, as we all know it's not just HP that
> counts, it's power to weight. Assuming the above article is accurate,
> 489pounds equals 222Kg DRY weight.
>
> So...with 108Hp and 245Kg wet (plus or minus 5Kg), just about every
> bike you've mentioned (and you left off my bike - X Raptor) is going
> to have significantly better numbers. Same HP but much lighter.
>
> My bike is comparatively long in the tooth but
> 2004 X raptor 215Kg wet and dyno'd at 112HP (stock is 104).
> http://www.cagiva.com.au/welcome/docs/XtraRaptor1000spec.pdf
>
> The SV1000 has the same power at the griso 108HP (according to you,
> it's not on the website but your number sounds about right) and 186kg
> dry plus 17(fuel) + 3 (oil) so say 206 -> 210Kg tops
> http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/specifications.php?intBikeID=148
>
> Aprilia Tuono
> Factory - 139Hp, 181Kg dry plus 18L + oil say 22Kg - 203Kg 205 tops
> The lower spec Tuono has the same HP and weighs an extra 4Kg so call
> it 205 -210Kg
>
> http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuonofactory07.pdf
> http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuono2007.pdf
>
> Ducati 2V 1000 is 178Kg dry, and 95Hp plus 14L plus 4L of oil, say
> 196Kg -200 tops. The 4V S4R is 177Kg dry so say under 200kg and 130Hp.
>
> So what you really meant is compared to other Guzzis it's a high
> performance model ?
>
> I don't mean to knock it - it looks and sounds like it'll be a lot of
> fun, but as a naked twin sports bike it's the fat kid a lap down in
> the 800m at the school sports carnival...
>
> JL
>
>
What about torque and of course the big one , how and where the "power"
comes on ?
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v 

On Feb 4, 6:14 pm, G-S <ge... DeleteThis @castbus.com.au> wrote:
> JL wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 3:13 pm, G-S <ge... DeleteThis @castbus.com.au> wrote:
> >> Iain Chalmers wrote:
>
> >>> You know that's just gonna have the Jap sportsbike guys laughing (again)
> >>> at Guzzis go-fast pretensions... "
>
> >> Probably
>
> >> But it isn't competing against jap sportsbikes, it is competing against
> >> other naked bikes.
>
> >> The Suzuki SV1000(S) makes 108ps, the VTR1000 makes 107ps, the
> >> Multistrada makes lots less than that and so do all of the Ducati
> >> Monsters except for the 4 valve ones (and even then only the top end 4V
> >> model makes substantially more).  The new BMW R1200R makes about the same.
>
> >> The Aprillia Tuono and the S4R are it for go faster options in this
> >> market segment, and for Guzzi to be competitive power wise against
> >> similar bikes hasn't been the case for a while.
>
> >> YMMV
>
> > 'Ang on a second, if you're going to compare tech specs, you'd better
> > line up apples with oranges, as we all know it's not just HP that
> > counts, it's power to weight. Assuming the above article is accurate,
> > 489pounds equals 222Kg DRY weight.
>
> > So...with 108Hp and 245Kg wet (plus or minus 5Kg), just about every
> > bike you've mentioned (and you left off my bike - X Raptor) is going
> > to have significantly better numbers. Same HP but much lighter.
>
> > My bike is comparatively long in the tooth but
> > 2004 X raptor 215Kg wet and dyno'd at 112HP (stock is 104).
> >http://www.cagiva.com.au/welcome/docs/XtraRaptor1000spec.pdf
>
> > The SV1000 has the same power at the griso 108HP (according to you,
> > it's not on the website but your number sounds about right) and 186kg
> > dry plus 17(fuel) + 3 (oil) so say 206 -> 210Kg tops
> >http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/specifications.php?intBikeID=148
>
> > Aprilia Tuono
> > Factory - 139Hp, 181Kg dry plus 18L + oil say 22Kg - 203Kg 205 tops
> > The lower spec Tuono has the same HP and weighs an extra 4Kg so call
> > it 205 -210Kg
>
> >http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuonofactory07.pdf
> >http://www.aprilia.com.au/pdfs/tuono2007.pdf
>
> > Ducati 2V 1000 is 178Kg dry, and 95Hp plus 14L plus 4L of oil, say
> > 196Kg -200 tops. The 4V S4R is 177Kg dry so say under 200kg and 130Hp.
>
> > So what you really meant is compared to other Guzzis it's a high
> > performance model ?
>
> > I don't mean to knock it - it looks and sounds like it'll be a lot of
> > fun, but as a naked twin sports bike it's the fat kid a lap down in
> > the 800m at the school sports carnival...
>
> > JL
>
> Don't confuse weight with acceleration. Acceleration is primarily the
> result of *torque* and gearing not power which is OTOH responsible for
> top speed (allowing for wind drag).

<snort> Bollocks ! Acceleration is a combination of WEIGHT (inertia),
power and gearing. You're confusing turning force at the crank (engine
torque) with turning force at the rear wheel. The less weight you have
to shift, the less the inertia you have to overcome to increase the
velocity. Gearing just changes the amount of turning force at the rear
wheel. Shortening the gearing compensates for low torque. On a big
torque engine it's a strange choice. I guess it's meant to be a low
speed hoon machine rather than anything else - same reason the Raptor
has gearing like a stunt bike.

More torque at the crank will allow you to run a higher gearing which
*may* shorten your ET over a quarter mile *IF* it saves you a gear
change in a manual vehicle. On the other hand a taller rev limit with
the same HP and gearing will give a shorter ET.

> Sure if the other bikes have similar torque and similar gearing then
> what you say will be the case but the test makes a point of stressing
> the short gearing (so I'm not sure it actually is the case here).

Short gearing, low rpm limit (8K) higher weight and relatively higher
torque compared to the Aprilia, the Duc or the SV mean it *may*
accelerate more quickly within very narrow bounds ( say a top gear
roll on from low RPM for the first 100 yards perhaps) but I'd bet
money on the other three disappearing off into the horizon pretty
quickly under just about any other circumstances.

> And the SV1000S at least has tallish gearing (not sure about the others).

Mmm well I geared the raptor more highly than it shipped back up
towards what the SV has because the gears were too close together and
you couldn't use the torque well. It's much quicker now that you can
use the 6000-10,000 rpm range better. Short gearing just gives you a
very narrow speed window before you have to upshift.


> The SV1000S and the VTR1000F also have pretty ordinary suspenders (and
> the lower end 2 valve dukes aren't much better).

<shrug> you can buy pretty good suspension for the price difference.
The Sachs gear on the cheaper Monsters isn't too bad anyway.

> But yes... I'm happy to admit it isn't top of the tree
>
> I'm content with it finally being in the same forest to be honest!

It's in a different forest, but it's not a bad forest - it's over
there with the Buell and the BMW in the unusual but interesting
woods !!

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Griso 8v