Gear oil in a KX 250

> I have a 2001 KX250 and I was wondering if you all use motor oil in the
> gearbox as specified by Kawasaki? Has anyone had problems and are there
> alternatives?
>
> Auto v. motorcycle?
> Synthetic?
> ATF?

Dumonde Tech LWHS...so far so good.

-Dave
2000 KX250
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

Wudsracer recommends (sorta):

>Shell Rotella 5w40 synthetic oil

I've heard a couple good things about Rotella oils but
I didn't know that there was a synthetic. Now I've *got*
to try it.

I've never had a clutch slip problem with synthetics
either. YMMV.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

I also use Rotella in the KTM. Love it, no issues, altho it is changed
frequently which is the key I suppose...
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

>On 25 Oct 2005 14:38:07 -0700, "Ken Shackleton" wrote:

>Hello All;
>
>I realize that any comment on oil will cause a wide variety of
>resonses.....however...
>
>I have a 2001 KX250 and I was wondering if you all use motor oil in the
>gearbox as specified by Kawasaki? Has anyone had problems and are there
>alternatives?
>
>Auto v. motorcycle?
>Synthetic?
>ATF?
>
>Thanks


I don't ride a Kawasaki, most of the time, but according to the
books, they specify 10w30 motor oil.

I have been using Spectro 80wt (light viscosity two stroke gear oil
that is equivalent to 10 wt engine oil), mostly, for the last 8 years.
Last year, after having a customer recommend it to me, I started
testing Shell Rotella 5w40 synthetic oil. It is available at WalMart
for $13 per gallon. I liked it so much that it is now all that I am
using in my personal bike. The clutch drag has diminished and the
shifting action has smoothed. I have yet to feel any hint of clutch
slippage, and the bikes that I have looked inside of that have been
using this oil looked really good, with no noticeable wear.

My importer told me not to recommend any synthetic oils to my Gas
Gas customers (because of possible clutch slipping, so I don't.
But... I do tell them what I am using. <G>



Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

Plowboy is confused:

>where does one find all this stuff out, like what is like what? is 75w not
>75wt? Why is fork oil in 5,10,20w flavors, and I hear in cold people like
>to use Dextron3 or fords type A in forks? now Im really lost...

It's confusing for sure. I figured out that 10 weight fork oils were
wildly
different and ended up measuring viscosity differences myself with a
timer and a pipette. It's the only way I could really figure out which
oil was more viscous.

Of course then there is the issue of temperature, thus some people
use ATF because it's viscosity is supposedly more temperature
independent. I didn't worry about temperature since by the
time the forks get hot, the moto is over for my little local races.

Maybe somebody out there can point to a short tutorial on
oil viscosity.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

PlowBoy wrote:
> Wudsracer enlightened us with:
> > Sting,
> > The Maxima is very good oil. It will take care of your
> > transmission, but I don't know about clutch action. ( The Pro clutch
> > gave them a lot of problems the first year.)
> > The Bel Ray Gearsaver works worse in the Gas Gas clutches than any
> > other oil that I have tried in the last 8 years (in terms of clutch
> > drag and notchy shifting). I have tried a lot of them.
> >
> > On your Pro, use the GM purple (blue?) synthetic transmission oil.
> > It is what Jim Snell told me that would work best for the Gas Gas Pro
> > models.
>
> Im on top of that Jim, thanks.
>
> Well ya, they're supposedly talking about the AUTO TRAK from GM that I am,
> my dad has it in his, the twin to my bike. I still liked the crystal clear
> Rock Oil that my bikes previous owner gave me that he, was using when I
> bought it. No idea what vis it is, of the top of my head... I sure love my
> clutch on this thing... I want to find 'easy to get' variants still, just
> in case the GM stuff does feel different. I spend (er well spent hours
> getting my clutch exactly as I like it, do not want to have to fight that
> again, most important aspect of the trials bike IMHO...)
>
> Hell right now Im limiting my ride time so I dont have to change the oil,
> until after our last 2-day regional round, in fear that it will change the
> behaivior... Yeah and if I break my lever I'm gonna be Chucked, Farley,
> anyway because mines been tweaked a bit LOL.
>
> Thanks a lot for the input about Bel Ray Gear stuff, I think My buddy will
> want to get the better stuff prolly from ryan young. That BelRay stuf, that
> is what the guy used in that bike that he bought the bike from, but I'm
> gonna pass the info to him just the same.


OK.....thanks for the input....however, I have not heard much about
ATF...has anyone used that for any length of time, and to what effect?
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

Wudsracer enlightened us with:
> Sting,
> The Maxima is very good oil. It will take care of your
> transmission, but I don't know about clutch action. ( The Pro clutch
> gave them a lot of problems the first year.)
> The Bel Ray Gearsaver works worse in the Gas Gas clutches than any
> other oil that I have tried in the last 8 years (in terms of clutch
> drag and notchy shifting). I have tried a lot of them.
>
> On your Pro, use the GM purple (blue?) synthetic transmission oil.
> It is what Jim Snell told me that would work best for the Gas Gas Pro
> models.

Im on top of that Jim, thanks.

Well ya, they're supposedly talking about the AUTO TRAK from GM that I am,
my dad has it in his, the twin to my bike. I still liked the crystal clear
Rock Oil that my bikes previous owner gave me that he, was using when I
bought it. No idea what vis it is, of the top of my head... I sure love my
clutch on this thing... I want to find 'easy to get' variants still, just
in case the GM stuff does feel different. I spend (er well spent hours
getting my clutch exactly as I like it, do not want to have to fight that
again, most important aspect of the trials bike IMHO...)

Hell right now Im limiting my ride time so I dont have to change the oil,
until after our last 2-day regional round, in fear that it will change the
behaivior... Yeah and if I break my lever I'm gonna be Chucked, Farley,
anyway because mines been tweaked a bit LOL.

Thanks a lot for the input about Bel Ray Gear stuff, I think My buddy will
want to get the better stuff prolly from ryan young. That BelRay stuf, that
is what the guy used in that bike that he bought the bike from, but I'm
gonna pass the info to him just the same.
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

>> What are you refering to ken? What Bikes?
>
>The bike in the header...my KX250.
>
>>
>> Yes, I been using plain old Type F in all -- trials-- bikes I have had.
>> Lately I been told it is better to use Dextron 3,
<sniip>

>> Again all I can say about it is IN MY EXPERIENCE and what I read and or find
>> out, YOUR MILAGE MAY VARY.
>
>Thanks...my riding is trail riding....almost always below 20 mph like
>yourself, and I do a fair amount of clutch slipping when going real
>slow.
>
>Sounds like Type F ATF may be a good choice.

I've used it ever since, in my 97 KTM 300MXC. When we had the motor
torn down looking for an invisible *problem* (we think that a tiny
power valve-adjusting doohickey let go and went through the gears and
came out in a fine sediment of chunkiness) the insides looked
splendid. I should change it more often but I'm lazy and have several
rides on it, maybe a year...

-keith
'97 KTM300MXC, 1999 Beta Techno 250
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

On 25 Oct 2005 14:38:07 -0700, "Ken Shackleton"
wrote:

>Hello All;
>
>I realize that any comment on oil will cause a wide variety of
>resonses.....however...
>
>I have a 2001 KX250 and I was wondering if you all use motor oil in the
>gearbox as specified by Kawasaki? Has anyone had problems and are there
>alternatives?
>
>Auto v. motorcycle?
>Synthetic?
>ATF?
>
>Thanks

I spent a bunch of time thinking about oil... First, with my XR, I was
willing to put the best stuff I could find but the prevailing judgement was
just use a rated oil and change frequently. I would change maybe every 150
to 200 miles. At that stage, I was using motorcycle oils.. specifically
BelRay. Run something cheap but properly rated, and change it often was the
order of the day.

Since that time, the primary engine I worry about now is 1000cc and I had
some new considerations to factor in. I'm on the clutch a LOT. Way way way
more than you can imagine. And I go slow... stupid slow. I noticed engine
heat and degraded clutch feel were indeed issues. I read everything I could
find and came to the conclusion there was no reason to buy a
motorcycle-specific oil. I could not locate a single public piece of
research that rationally justified the higher expense. Personally, I
consider it a high-profit-margin product that only exists because people
will use it. But I realize others might disagree. I tried lots of oils,
including a few MC oils but I have settled on Mobil1 15W50 which is not an
"energy conserving" oil... a class of oil known to cause clutch issues with
some bikes. I like that my engine is probably running 10-20 deg cooler
because of the synthetic.. which I don't think you need. And I *love* the
clutch feel.... nothing else gets close in that bike.

So you could run the expensive stuff but I don't think you have the same
issues to address I do now. Cheap stuff changed frequently would be my rule
for your usage model. I wouldn't limit myself to an MC-specific oil either,
but that's me... check into that for yourself. I'd probably run ATF... I've
heard lots of good stuff about it and no bad, that I can recall.

Good luck,
Mike


--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

Wudsracer points out:

> we found that
>their only oils that would still have full lubricity at the end of
>Josh's enduro were the Valvoline and Castrol 20w50

How did you measure lubricity?


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

*************************************************************
>On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:55:29 -0400, Mike W. wrote:
>
>I spent a bunch of time thinking about oil... First, with my XR, I was
>willing to put the best stuff I could find but the prevailing judgement was
>just use a rated oil and change frequently. I would change maybe every 150
>to 200 miles. At that stage, I was using motorcycle oils.. specifically
>BelRay. Run something cheap but properly rated, and change it often was the
>order of the day.
>
>Since that time, the primary engine I worry about now is 1000cc and I had
>some new considerations to factor in. I'm on the clutch a LOT. Way way way
>more than you can imagine. And I go slow... stupid slow. I noticed engine
>heat and degraded clutch feel were indeed issues. I read everything I could
>find and came to the conclusion there was no reason to buy a
>motorcycle-specific oil. I could not locate a single public piece of
>research that rationally justified the higher expense. Personally, I
>consider it a high-profit-margin product that only exists because people
>will use it. But I realize others might disagree. I tried lots of oils,
>including a few MC oils but I have settled on Mobil1 15W50 which is not an
>"energy conserving" oil... a class of oil known to cause clutch issues with
>some bikes. I like that my engine is probably running 10-20 deg cooler
>because of the synthetic.. which I don't think you need. And I *love* the
>clutch feel.... nothing else gets close in that bike.
>
>So you could run the expensive stuff but I don't think you have the same
>issues to address I do now. Cheap stuff changed frequently would be my rule
>for your usage model. I wouldn't limit myself to an MC-specific oil either,
>but that's me... check into that for yourself. I'd probably run ATF... I've
>heard lots of good stuff about it and no bad, that I can recall.
>
>Good luck,
>Mike
************************************************************

Mike,
Ken's oil for his KX will strictly be used for his transmission.
(stated sole for clarification purposes) I think BelRay makes some
fine products, but that their Gearsaver doesn't do well in Gas Gas
transmissions.

What really prompts me to respond to your post is this:
When Josh & I raced a couple of DR350, I tried every conventional oil
at the local auto parts store. There was a tremendous difference in
the performance of different oils.
What prompted my "oil search" was that, by the gas stop at the
enduros, Josh's oil would already be turning black, and by the end of
an enduro, it would already be losing lubricity. (He would stay
"throttle pinned" most of the race.) On my bike, the oil would be
turning black by the end of the enduro, and would be losing lubricity
you the end of the second ride. We were using Texaco 10w40.
This amazed me, as I had always thought that Texaco was a "premium"
oil, and could "take it" better than that.
Then, as we got more familiar with the bikes (and had Scott's
Performance modify our suspensions), this oil degradation accelerated
with our increased "engine abuse".

As we tried different oils, we found that, of the available
selections (Penzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, RockHill, Castrol, etc,
but Mobil wasn't available in our auto parts store. ), we found that
their only oils that would still have full lubricity at the end of
Josh's enduro were the Valvoline and Castrol 20w50. There was no
appreciable difference between the Castrol and the Valvoline oils.
Now, even though these two were the best conventional oils that our
"Bumper to Bumper" parts store carried, their 10w40 was toast by the
end of Josh's enduro, and very dark by the end of my enduro.
If we used their 20w50, the oil would be good for Josh's whole race,
but turning dark by the end, and I could get two races on the same oil
change.
I think the difference in the Valvoline and Castrol performance,
versus the rest of the available conventional oils is the bright stock
that is the base oil used in the blending process.

I agree about the Mobil 15w50 being a very good oil.
I think that everyone should try different oils to see what works
best in their application.

The only Gas Gas EC engine I have taken apart, that had really hard
wear on the parts inside, had been running Type F atf in the
transmission.
I had used type F atf before (quite a bit in the past), and really
liked the shifting and clutch action, but after seeing this
particular engine's transmission and clutch parts, I no longer
recommend it for two stroke gearboxes.

<end of early morning ramblings>

May you have a great day.



Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

"-keith" wrote in message


> >Sounds like Type F ATF may be a good choice.
>
> I've used it ever since, in my 97 KTM 300MXC.

YMMV, etc, etc, etc...

I use Dextron in my bike. Shifts fine, clutch works well.

-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-HellSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250 

>On 27 Oct 2005 06:33:03 -0700, "sturd" wrote:

>Wudsracer points out:
>
>> we found that
>>their only oils that would still have full lubricity at the end of
>>Josh's enduro were the Valvoline and Castrol 20w50
>
>How did you measure lubricity?
>
>
>Go fast. Take chances.
>Mike S.


Being a product of the oil field, I used the SOP method, which
involves putting the oil on a thumbnail and squeezing/rubbing it with
my index finger.
Slick is slick.
Not slick is not slick.
No numbers are involved, but one can definitely get a direct
comparison between two samples this way.


Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com
 >> Stay informed about: Gear oil in a KX 250