Gasohol advice

"XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5eafeac.0312282115.3a1194ec@posting.google.com...
 > Well, over here in the peoples republic of connecticut, they've
 > switched to gasoline cut with ethanol (90%gas, 10%ethanol)... the pig
 > is running hotter than normal, maybe leaner as well. Pops and dies,
 > which it hasn't done since I got rid of the hated dyno-jet jets and
 > needle.
 > Anyone have experience with this crud? I'm thinking it needs to be
 >

Dave we have that junk here in Colorado in the Winter. Many of the guys
have gone to running race gas until the Spring when they end the program.
Many tried to jet around it and could never get the bikes to stop fouling
plugs and the such. Good luck with it.


Rex McKinney<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

Hi Dave!


On 28 Dec 2003 21:15:00 -0800, spamTHISbrp.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (XR650L_Dave)
wrote:

 >Well, over here in the peoples republic of connecticut, they've
 >switched to gasoline cut with ethanol (90%gas, 10%ethanol)...

Around here, the mix is 75% gas, 25% ethanol...


 >Anyone have experience with this crud? I'm thinking it needs to be
 >jetted a little richer. I know the ethanol can hold a hatful of water,
 >as well, so I'm always on the lookout for that now.
 >Jetted properly, will an engine running gasohol run hotter than on
 >straight gas?

Your bike is running lean, the ethanol does not burn like gasoline,
it's like it have less power, so you need more fuel... There are cars
(and some bikes) that runs on pure ethanol around here, I even tried
to alcoolize my NX200 (dual sport bike), but I couldn't find the
proper jets and it had no bottom end... After 6k rpm it was a blast,
much faster than with gas and almost as fast as a 250, but I switched
back to gasoline... Pure alcohol needs a main that gives 100% more
fuel flow and the pilot must flow 50% more fuel.

Well, there is a (somewhat easy) way to remove the alcohol from the
gasoline. Mix with water, 1:1 and let it rest overnight. On the next
morning, you'll have the fuel separated, alcohol+water will rest on
the bottom of the container and pure gasoline will be on top.

BTW, people race highly tuned MX bikes with our gasohol pump gas, it's
no problem, bike doesn't seize or run poorly, but it needs to be
properly jetted. Biggest problem is that one of the components of fuel
alcohol is sulfuric acid, used during the destilation process and this
acid corrodes the carburetor (and tank), so it needs to be cleaned
often...

In the beggining of the 80s, government passed a law that all racing
vehicles should be 100% alcohol powered, I was a kid by that time, but
I remember "hollywood motocross", they ran alcohol powered MX bikes
and only a very few mechanics were able to tune that bikes... Regular
two stroke oil doesn't mix with alcohol very well... Fortunately, this
law doesn't exist for a loooooong time....

I bet that the alcohol you're burning is produced with the cane sugar
from the fields around my hometown...

 >-Dave


--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

spamTHISbrp.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (XR650L_Dave) wrote in message news:<5eafeac.0312282115.3a1194ec.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
 > Well, over here in the peoples republic of connecticut, they've
 > switched to gasoline cut with ethanol (90%gas, 10%ethanol)... the pig
 > is running hotter than normal, maybe leaner as well. Pops and dies,
 > which it hasn't done since I got rid of the hated dyno-jet jets and
 > needle.
 > Anyone have experience with this crud? I'm thinking it needs to be
 > jetted a little richer. I know the ethanol can hold a hatful of water,
 > as well, so I'm always on the lookout for that now.
 > Jetted properly, will an engine running gasohol run hotter than on
 > straight gas?
 > Jeez, Chris is getting out of here just in time.
 > -Dave

Thanks for the info, guys. Fortunately, its a stock-but-derestricted
4-stroke, so I'm not asking a lot out of it. Stock muffler, baffle
sometimes removed.
Tiago, I do recall your mentioning that part about our alcohol coming
from your sugar-cane. Are there any liquors made from fermented cane?

OK, the follow-up question: is a keihin jet numbered based on flow or
diameter?
I'm running a 158 now. If its a flow number, 4.5% (I like it a little
richer) larger would be a 165(158x1.045), if its a diameter-related
number, that would be about 161-162(158 x sqrt(1.045)).
Thanks, dave.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

spamTHISbrp.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (XR650L_Dave) wrote in message news:<5eafeac.0312282115.3a1194ec.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
 > Well, over here in the peoples republic of connecticut, they've
 > switched to gasoline cut with ethanol (90%gas, 10%ethanol)... the pig
 > is running hotter than normal, maybe leaner as well. Pops and dies,
 > which it hasn't done since I got rid of the hated dyno-jet jets and
 > needle.
 > Anyone have experience with this crud? I'm thinking it needs to be
 > jetted a little richer. I know the ethanol can hold a hatful of water,
 > as well, so I'm always on the lookout for that now.
 > Jetted properly, will an engine running gasohol run hotter than on
 > straight gas?
 > Jeez, Chris is getting out of here just in time.
 > -Dave


And a PS on my last post- its looking like it will be a permanent
switch to gasohol here in CT, so I'm hoping this is do-able! Yet
another time I'm glad I'm not running a 2-stroke, it sounds like they
are much more sensitive.
-D<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

In article <5eafeac.0312282115.3a1194ec DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
XR650L_Dave <spamTHISbrp DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
 >Well, over here in the peoples republic of connecticut, they've
 >switched to gasoline cut with ethanol (90%gas, 10%ethanol)... the pig
 >is running hotter than normal, maybe leaner as well. Pops and dies,

It is running leaner. Stoichiometric ratio for gas is 14.7:1, for
ethanol it's 9. @10% blend it's 14.

(http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/review/changes.html)

This means that if your jetted crisply with straight gas its
going to be lean on gasohol. Since it's winter and cold air is denser
you may already be running a little lean.

You need jets that are 4.3% larger. If your carbs jets are numbered based
on flow, then it's simple to figure out what jets to get. If they're
numbered by diameter, you will have to do the math. With the jets being
so close you can probably assume that a 4.3% increase in area will result
in a 4.3% increase in flow. If all that's too complicated then
try adjusting the idle mixture screw (in for air screw, out for fuel)
a half turn or so. If your needle was lean to begin with you may
need to move the clip down a slot as well.


We're going to be forced to run this swill here in California too.
The only good thing about it is that it's less of a toxic poison than
MTBE, the last magic pee we were forced to use. You can thank our
craven farm state congresscritters and ADM, price-fixers to the world, for
this bit of idiocy.

Eric<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

On 29 Dec 2003 10:37:25 -0800, spamTHISbrp.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (XR650L_Dave)
wrote:


 >Tiago, I do recall your mentioning that part about our alcohol coming
 >from your sugar-cane. Are there any liquors made from fermented cane?

It's called "cachaca": (last "c" is a c cedil = cachaça,
sounds like... uhhm, like the "s" of "sun"... well, sort of... )

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pitu.com.br/" target="_blank">http://www.pitu.com.br/</a>
click on the little US flag...



 >OK, the follow-up question: is a keihin jet numbered based on flow or
 >diameter?

Diameter

 >I'm running a 158 now.

That means that the jet have a round diameter of 1.58 milimeters

I think you'd be done with a needle adjust, just put it one notch down
and see if it works...

 >Thanks, dave.


--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:54:10 -0300, Tiago Rocha
<tiagocrspamtalho RemoveThis @terra.com.br> wrote in rec.motorcycles.dirt:


  >>I'm running a 158 now.
 >
 >That means that the jet have a round diameter of 1.58 milimeters
 >
 >I think you'd be done with a needle adjust, just put it one notch down
 >and see if it works...

Just to clarify what Tiago says:

Drop the clip one notch to raise the needle = richer.

  >>Thanks, dave.


David - '03 KTM200 EXC
djones <at> LSidaho.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd" target="_blank">http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd</a>


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newsfeeds.com" target="_blank">http://www.newsfeeds.com</a> - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

Tiago Rocha <tiagocrspamtalho.RemoveThis@terra.com.br> wrote in message news:<uet0vv8qsk0hteiprkervrdej1l3fmhehg.RemoveThis@4ax.com>...
 > On 29 Dec 2003 10:37:25 -0800, spamTHISbrp.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (XR650L_Dave)
 > wrote:
 >
 >
  > >Tiago, I do recall your mentioning that part about our alcohol coming
  > >from your sugar-cane. Are there any liquors made from fermented cane?
 >
 > It's called "cachaca": (last "c" is a c cedil = cachaça,
 > sounds like... uhhm, like the "s" of "sun"... well, sort of... )
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pitu.com.br/</font" target="_blank">http://www.pitu.com.br/</font</a>>
 > click on the little US flag...
 >
 >
 >
  > >OK, the follow-up question: is a keihin jet numbered based on flow or
  > >diameter?
 >
 > Diameter
 >
  > >I'm running a 158 now.
 >
 > That means that the jet have a round diameter of 1.58 milimeters
 >
 > I think you'd be done with a needle adjust, just put it one notch down
 > and see if it works...
 >
  > >Thanks, dave.



Thanks, Tiago. I'm going to try and get some of that stuff... they
have a US importer. Yippee!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

"Rex McKinney" <endurodognospam DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:s3PHb.684499$Tr4.1712746@attbi_s03...

 > Dave we have that junk here in Colorado in the Winter. Many of the guys
 > have gone to running race gas until the Spring when they end the program.
 > Many tried to jet around it and could never get the bikes to stop fouling
 > plugs and the such. Good luck with it.

That's exactly what I've started doing. For the trail bike, I'll run
race gas. The colder winter weather combined with oxy-fuels, makes
the bike run really lean. Unless you're burning a tank every day, you're
better off to simply bite the bullet & pay for race gas, rather than
messing with rejetting.

For my XRL, I fill up gas cans just over the border in Wyoming. This
will usually get me thru most of the winter. Occasionally, I'll run
oxy-fuel
in the pig, but for comutting it doesn't seem to be too noticeable.

-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

"Jeff Deeney" <jeff_deeney.RemoveThis@hp.removeme.com> wrote in message
news:X0ZHb.11268$uc1.4104@news.cpqcorp.net...

 >
 > That's exactly what I've started doing. For the trail bike, I'll run
 > race gas. The colder winter weather combined with oxy-fuels, makes
 > the bike run really lean. Unless you're burning a tank every day, you're
 > better off to simply bite the bullet & pay for race gas, rather than
 > messing with rejetting.


Jeff I think you know Merf. Him and 2 other guys fought with jetting all
Winter 2 years ago with thier 426's. They were fouling plugs about every
other ride. Once they switched to race gas, no more fouling. In the Summer
they just run pump stuff.

Rex McKinney<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

"Rex McKinney" <endurodognospam RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:k8ZHb.681302$HS4.4833916@attbi_s01...

 > Jeff I think you know Merf.

Merf? Name sounds vaguely familiar. He used to be
one of us. He's since shunned RMD in leiu of other
interests. Who needs him anyway?

We'll have to get together for a winter rampart ride. Rex, are
you up for it? What about Merf, now that boating season is
over? I'm gonna try & get out for a ride on Jan 2.

-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
`O'
<D>eeman
_/ \_<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

"Jeff Deeney" <jeff_deeney.RemoveThis@hp.removeme.com> wrote in message
news:2hZHb.11274$Ec1.5357@news.cpqcorp.net...
 >
 > Merf? Name sounds vaguely familiar. He used to be
 > one of us. He's since shunned RMD in leiu of other
 > interests. Who needs him anyway?

Haaa.

 >
 > We'll have to get together for a winter rampart ride. Rex, are
 > you up for it? What about Merf, now that boating season is
 > over? I'm gonna try & get out for a ride on Jan 2.


I would be up for it, I have to work on the 2nd though. I don't have
screws in any tires either so I'll have to work on that. Let me know if
your gonna do any weekend rides.

Rex McKinney<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice 

"XR650L_Dave" <spamTHISbrp.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5eafeac.0312291204.141fbb0f@posting.google.com...

 >
 > And a PS on my last post- its looking like it will be a permanent
 > switch to gasohol here in CT, so I'm hoping this is do-able! Yet
 > another time I'm glad I'm not running a 2-stroke, it sounds like they
 > are much more sensitive.

FWIW I have never had the problem with Oxy fuels and my 2 stroke. My
riding buddies never had a problem with the oxy fuels till they started
riding 4 strokes. Logic would have ya think otherwise but it hasn't been
the case with the blend we get her in Colorado.

Rex McKinney
03 Wr450
02 Yz250<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Gasohol advice