Engine breaking (safety follow-up question)

"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote

> >In my (limited) experience, when i release the gas
> >handle and then release the clutch pedal as well, i
> >get this jumpy leap forward and the engine dies.
> >I'd like to avoid testing that at an even greater
> >velocity, as you surely understand.
>
> The engine won't stall once you get the carburetors cleaned and
synchronized.
>

Well I'll be damned. You learn something new every day.
Never knew that there was a mechanical fix for being a newbie with terrible
clutch control.........and absolutely NO understanding how the machine
works either..
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

Konrad Viltersten wrote:

>In my (limited) experience, when i release the gas
>handle and then release the clutch pedal as well, i
>get this jumpy leap forward and the engine dies.
>I'd like to avoid testing that at an even greater
>velocity, as you surely understand.

The engine won't stall once you get the carburetors cleaned and synchronized.

--
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 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

In article <5htvf0F3m642oU1 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>,
"Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1 DeleteThis @viltersten.com> wrote:

> Somebody claimed just now the following:
>
> "...shifting down and leaving the throttle closed is a
> perfectly valid way of controlling speed..."
>
> In my (limited) experience, when i release the gas
> handle and then release the clutch pedal as well, i
> get this jumpy leap forward and the engine dies.
> I'd like to avoid testing that at an even greater
> velocity, as you surely understand.
>
> Am i missing something?

At what speed did you try this, on what kind of motorcycle?

When I'm riding along at a reasonable speed (30-120 kph) and in a
reasonable gear for the motorcycle at that speed, I can chop the
throttle without any problems. But at very slow speeds, it's not as
stable.

You wrote "gas handle" and "clutch pedal". What kind of motorcycle are
you riding? Maybe there's confusion in the terminology. On modern
motorcycles, described in English:
* the right grip controls the throttle
* the right lever (brake lever) operates the front brake
* the left lever (clutch lever) operates the clutch
* the right foot lever (rear brake pedal) operates the rear brake
* the left foot lever (gear shift lever) operates the gear shift.


--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

Ken Abrams wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :
> "Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1 DeleteThis @viltersten.com> wrote
>
>> Am i missing something?
>
> Well, yes, something fairly obvious.
> With all that mass in motion (you and the bike), if you downshift
> only ONE gear at a time, the inertia will keep the engine turning and
> it will not die. It tends to turn faster, actually.


That is surprising. How can it be faster if it also
can be used for engine breaking?!

--
Vänligen
Konrad
---------------------------------------------------

Sleep - thing used by ineffective people
as a substitute for coffee

Ambition - a poor excuse for not having
enough sence to be lazy
---------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

In article <5hu0s9F3ko8q1U1.TakeThisOut@mid.individual.net>,
"Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.TakeThisOut@viltersten.com> wrote:

> Ken Abrams wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :
> > "Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.TakeThisOut@viltersten.com> wrote
> >
> >> Am i missing something?
> >
> > Well, yes, something fairly obvious.
> > With all that mass in motion (you and the bike), if you downshift
> > only ONE gear at a time, the inertia will keep the engine turning and
> > it will not die. It tends to turn faster, actually.
>
>
> That is surprising. How can it be faster if it also
> can be used for engine breaking?!

In lower gears, the engine runs faster for the same road speed. So if
you shift down a gear but maintain the same speed, the engine will
initially run faster than before the shift.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

> That is surprising. How can it be faster if it also
> can be used for engine breaking?!

What kind of motorcycle are you using that you don't feel the effects
of this right away? In my experience, the only time a well-maintained
bike will just die because it was given too much clutch is if it's
going about 5 mph or less.

Maybe we should be more clear: You can't "engine brake" to a complete
stop. Is that what you're trying to do? You need to use the engine
brake in conjunction with your regular brakes. Otherwise, the engine
will stall. You can slow down considerably with the engine, and then
pull the clutch in and finish your stop with the regular brakes until
you're ready to go again...

Does that help? What country are you from? The concept is exactly the
same on a car - and judging from your last name, you probably live
somewhere where manual vehicles are common. If you're driving a "stick-
shift," you will experience the same exact thing. Truckers do it as
well.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

> I thought you were about 18 years old. Aren't you rather old to be playing
> with Pokemon toys?

Screw Pokemon toys - what kind of 18 year old even hasn't at least
been given an opportunity to drive a friend's car?!

Most transmissions in Europe are manual - so keep in mind when you do
learn that it will operate much like the motorcycle. And in cars, the
money saved on brake pads is more pronounced, and the traction loss
that can occur is much less dangerous (as is everything in a car )
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

sirrix wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :

>> That is surprising. How can it be faster if it also
>> can be used for engine breaking?!
>
> What kind of motorcycle are you using that you don't
> feel the effects of this right away? In my experience,
> the only time a well-maintained bike will just die
> because it was given too much clutch is if it's going
> about 5 mph or less.

I ride a Honda Transalp but the problem is probably
that i DO refer to speed under 5km/h (about 3mph).

> Maybe we should be more clear: You can't "engine
> brake" to a complete stop. Is that what you're trying
> to do?

Not anymore... I was trying though... Thanks for this
piece of information.

> Does that help?

Yes. Considerably. I'm hugely greatful.

> What country are you from? The concept is exactly
> the same on a car - and judging from your last name,
> you probably live somewhere where manual vehicles
> are common. If you're driving a "stick- shift," you
> will experience the same exact thing. Truckers do it
> as well.


I'm from Sweden. I can't speak regarding the portion
of automatic transmissions here, however. In fact,
despite the fact that i'm 31, i've never in my life driven
a car. I do, however, believe that WHEN i'll start
driving a car, i'll have lots of help from the bike.

--
Vänligen
Konrad
---------------------------------------------------

Sleep - thing used by ineffective people
as a substitute for coffee

Ambition - a poor excuse for not having
enough sence to be lazy
---------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

Konrad Viltersten wrote:
> In fact,
>despite the fact that i'm 31(snip)

I thought you were about 18 years old. Aren't you rather old to be playing
with Pokemon toys?

--
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 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

sirrix wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :

>> I thought you were about 18 years old. Aren't you rather old to be
>> playing with Pokemon toys?
>
> Screw Pokemon toys - what kind of 18 year old even hasn't at least
> been given an opportunity to drive a friend's car?!

Perhaps one, the friends of whom don't have a car? I guess
i'm a product of poor, bicycle-riding society, hehe.


I understand in US you get a licence during your time in
school. In Sweden, we pay big bucks for driving lessons.
I now a girl who paid around a months salary before she
got her licence. It's even more ugly for the motorcycle...
It's actually BY FAR cheaper to buy a bike and learn by
oneself than to get lessons.

--
Vänligen
Konrad
---------------------------------------------------

Sleep - thing used by ineffective people
as a substitute for coffee

Ambition - a poor excuse for not having
enough sence to be lazy
---------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

In article <5hul4tF3ma5krU1.RemoveThis@mid.individual.net>,
"Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.RemoveThis@viltersten.com> wrote:

> sirrix wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :
>
> >> I thought you were about 18 years old. Aren't you rather old to be
> >> playing with Pokemon toys?
> >
> > Screw Pokemon toys - what kind of 18 year old even hasn't at least
> > been given an opportunity to drive a friend's car?!
>
> Perhaps one, the friends of whom don't have a car? I guess
> i'm a product of poor, bicycle-riding society, hehe.

Don't let these provincial types get you down.

> I understand in US you get a licence during your time in
> school. In Sweden, we pay big bucks for driving lessons.
> I now a girl who paid around a months salary before she
> got her licence. It's even more ugly for the motorcycle...
> It's actually BY FAR cheaper to buy a bike and learn by
> oneself than to get lessons.

Well, riding a motorcycle is not trivial. It may be cheaper in the short
term to go without lessons, but in the long term it could be very
expensive. There are some counterintuitive things that can kill you,
such as steering, which is backwards.

I *highly* recommend finding someone competent to teach you the basics.
If you can't do that, then get yourself a real book on riding skills,
such as "Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well" by
David L. Hough.

Please at least read through my FAQ.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:34:31 -0700, Timberwoof <timberwoof.spam.DeleteThis@infernosoft.com> wrote:

>In article <5htvf0F3m642oU1.DeleteThis@mid.individual.net>,
> "Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.DeleteThis@viltersten.com> wrote:
>
>> Somebody claimed just now the following:
>>
>> "...shifting down and leaving the throttle closed is a
>> perfectly valid way of controlling speed..."
>>
>> In my (limited) experience, when i release the gas
>> handle and then release the clutch pedal as well, i
>> get this jumpy leap forward and the engine dies.
>> I'd like to avoid testing that at an even greater
>> velocity, as you surely understand.
>>
>> Am i missing something?
>
>At what speed did you try this, on what kind of motorcycle?
>
>When I'm riding along at a reasonable speed (30-120 kph) and in a
>reasonable gear for the motorcycle at that speed, I can chop the
>throttle without any problems. But at very slow speeds, it's not as
>stable.
>
>You wrote "gas handle" and "clutch pedal". What kind of motorcycle are
>you riding? Maybe there's confusion in the terminology. On modern
>motorcycles, described in English:
>* the right grip controls the throttle
>* the right lever (brake lever) operates the front brake
>* the left lever (clutch lever) operates the clutch
>* the right foot lever (rear brake pedal) operates the rear brake
>* the left foot lever (gear shift lever) operates the gear shift.
>


ha ha , from my one triumph to the one i still have , the shift swapped
sides , and that meant a foot exchange if you stalled ( oh , nobody
ever does that ) - * whistles and does the eye roll*
( w/o bringing the the front wheel up a bit afterwards) dang cagers
attempting to give you a push start :-\
>
>--
>Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
>faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
>It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question) 

Timberwoof wrote/skrev/kaita/popisal/schreibt :
> "Konrad Viltersten" <tmp1.DeleteThis@viltersten.com> wrote:
>
>> Somebody claimed just now the following:
>>
>> "...shifting down and leaving the throttle closed is a
>> perfectly valid way of controlling speed..."
>>
>> In my (limited) experience, when i release the gas
>> handle and then release the clutch pedal as well, i
>> get this jumpy leap forward and the engine dies.
>> I'd like to avoid testing that at an even greater
>> velocity, as you surely understand.
>>
>> Am i missing something?
>
> At what speed did you try this, on what kind of motorcycle?

A speed too low, apparently. Well, it's apparent AFTER i've
been given some instructions from a friendly soul of alt.mc...
I still don't have rocks to test it at a higher speed but the
day will come, eventually.

> You wrote "gas handle" and "clutch pedal". What kind of
> motorcycle are you riding?

Sorry, my mistake. I got me a rebuilded Transalp, you see.
Because of an injury, i have issues switching gears, so
after some advice (from this very NG, i believe) i asked a
guy to remodel the bike. So i actually DO have a "clutch
pedal" and a "gear handle/switcher/button", sort of.

I'm still trying, however, to exercize the foot so i'll be
able to ride arbitrary bike in the future.

Thanks for the info, by the way.

--
Vänligen
Konrad
---------------------------------------------------

Sleep - thing used by ineffective people
as a substitute for coffee

Ambition - a poor excuse for not having
enough sence to be lazy
---------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Engine breaking (safety follow-up question)