Ducati shopping

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 01:44:03 +0100, BryanUT <nestle12 RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>
> "P.J.Berg" <BergRace RemoveThis @bogus.no.invalid> wrote in message
> news:op.t6m6kpyjnnsvvw@cm-84.208.86.10.getinternet.no...
>>>
>>
>> Looks nice, but center of gravity....
>> Made for a dirt flattrack? Similar to what we call Speedway in Europe..
>>
>
> Yep. But Speedway is a much shorter track with bikes that are smaller
> single cylinder running exotic fuels.
>
> American flat track may be 1/2 mile to 1 mile dirt tracks. That's what I
> learned and watched back in the 70s.
>
>

Here is picture of a Norwegian Speedway bike built in -55.
http://www.tekniskmuseum.no/no/samlingene/gjenstandsbilder/basse.jpg

Story on the bike and owner in Norwegian(yes, I know..)
http://www.tekniskmuseum.no/no/samlingene/basse.htm#historikk

Speedway in English:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway

Modern Speedway are run on tracks varying from 250m to 450m, in the old
days they also did "Langbane"(Longtrack) typically run on Horse
harness-racing ovals, aprox 1000m.

J.



--
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P.J.Berg wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:37:33 +0100, Terry Coombs
> <snagone.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> saddlebag wrote:
>>> On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, "BryanUT" <nestl....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> "saddlebag" <saddle....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:173d5aca-3628-440b-842f-a1b47f2276f2@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> How many miles are on the F4 anyway?
>>>> 22.5k
>>>>
>>>> The bike is only worth about $3500. I am having hard time
>>>> justify
>>>> putting
>>>> over $1000 dollars into it.
>>>>
>>>> It starts now. We'll see how it goes come spring. I think I'll
>>>> try the
>>>> Marvel Mystry oil.
>>> If it starts, what the problem? Is it burning oil now? The
>>> tolerances on your Honda are likely much tighter than on the old
>>> Ford tractor. That motor oil trick might not work as well.
>>> Did you change the oil regularly? 22.5k is nothing...especially
>>> for a stinkin Honda. Such talk has Soichiro spinning in his
>>> grave.
>>
>> I have to agree with saddlebag , that bike is hardly even broken
>> in ! If your rings WERE stuck , it appears they're unstuck now . I
>> suspect that dealer is playing you ... get that compression tester
>> ,
>> see for yourself what you've got . Test procedures are in every
>> manual . --
>> Snag
>> Harley's , Honda's , and a Kawasaki ...
>
> The problem is to find a compression tester with the correct plug
> adapter. This goes for both 10 and 12mm plugs..
> If you can access the plughole "straight", you can use the rubber
> cone
> type, just lean against it hard enough, and have a friend run the
> starter at w.o.t.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947089000P?keyword=compression+tester
includes adapters for 10, 12, 14, and 18mm. Should be in stock at
your local Sears.

> If the bike runs normally and starts normally both warm and cold, I
> doubth your problems are compression related.
>
> Do you at any time get any poping/backfire sounds either in the
> airfilterbox or out the exhaust?
> Could happen both at accel and deceleration.
>
> If you experience either(With a non leaky exhaust) you most likely
> have slightly burned valveseats/valves. Poping out the exhaust =
> leaky exhaust valves, in the airfilterbox = intake valves.
>
> Burned valves/valveseats are often caused by valve clearance being
> out of spec, as in tight. This again is often due to negelect of
> service schemes at correct intervals.
>
> It can sometimes(as in rare) be caused by ignition timing being way
> off, as in retarded(related to exhaust valves).
>
> J.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 16, 6:25 pm, "Bob Myers" <nospample....RemoveThis@address.invalid> wrote:
> "." <Rhiann....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > I have never seen much useful guidance in this group, which is
> > dedicated to master debating every topic to death
>
> And yet, for some reason, you're still here.

Knowledgeable riders, helping other riders is what motorcycling is
really all about.

But, there is a growing majority of RUB's who think that buying a new
bike
qualifies them to pontificate on all things related to motorcycling,
and their best advice is "Take it to the shop".

That entirely defeats the purpose of a newsgroup, as any Damned Fool
can say, "Take it to the shop".

The $tealer$ love damned fools, Damned Fools are their bread and
butter.

Damned Fool RUB's also love to gather in parking lots and stand around
pointing at some obscure nut or bolt on a Harley and scratching their
heads together.

Damned Fool RUB's will ride across the country, just to scratch their
heads in a parking lot.

Somebody ought to make up some patches for a club called
"Damned Fool RUB's".

They could charge the Damned Fools $5000 to join the club, and the
Damned Fools would gladly pay for the "badge of honor".
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 17, 10:23 am, "." <Rhiann....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 6:25 pm, "Bob Myers" <nospample....TakeThisOut@address.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "." <Rhiann....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > I have never seen much useful guidance in this group, which is
> > > dedicated to master debating every topic to death
>
> > And yet, for some reason, you're still here.
>
> Knowledgeable riders, helping other riders is what motorcycling is
> really all about.
>
> But, there is a growing majority of RUB's who think that buying a new
> bike
> qualifies them to pontificate on all things related to motorcycling,
> and their best advice is "Take it to the shop".
>
> That entirely defeats the purpose of a newsgroup, as any Damned Fool
> can say, "Take it to the shop".

Yeah, but sometime it just makes sense. Am I going to buy and store a
$1000 worth of hoisting equipment so I can remove the fork tubes to
change the oil because Ducati didn't see fit to put a drain hole at
the bottom? Am I going to buy a $500 tensioning tool to replace belts
in it once every 15k miles when I might want a totally different bike
in a year or two?

> Damned Fool RUB's will ride across the country, just to scratch their
> heads in a parking lot.

Gotta do something with the time God gave ya.

> They could charge the Damned Fools $5000 to join the club, and the
> Damned Fools would gladly pay for the "badge of honor".

Yea but you conveniently left out the fact that you get a shiney new
pin for your vest every March.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 17, 1:45 am, _Bob_Nixon_ <bi... RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, _Bob_Nixon_ <bi... RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >> > The also had one of those $72k  RRs on the floor.  What an amazing
> >> > bike!
>
> >> > What to do?
>
> >> Buy an SV-650 instead. Half the price, roughly the same performance and
> >> prolly way more reliable. Ride one 1st if you disbelieve.
>
> > I've always thought that SV650s were performance bargains, but roughly
> > the same performance as a Desmosedici?  Whoa!   THat REALLY is good!
>
> That's not what I said, Tim.

Really? I guess I misread it.

Sigh.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 17, 11:28 am, Steve Mackay <steve_mac... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> _Bob_Nixon_ wrote:
> > Tim wrote:
>
> >> On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, _Bob_Nixon_ <bi... DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> The also had one of those $72k  RRs on the floor.  What an amazing
> >>>> bike!
> >>>> What to do?
> >>> Buy an SV-650 instead. Half the price, roughly the same performance and
> >>> prolly way more reliable. Ride one 1st if you disbelieve.
> >> I've always thought that SV650s were performance bargains, but roughly
> >> the same performance as a Desmosedici?  Whoa!   THat REALLY is good!
>
> > That's not what I said, Tim. Roughly the same as a Duc GT-1000 retro air
> > cooled with single intake and exhaust valve and lower compression=less
> > torque per cc. Also it's limited to about 8000 RPM whereas an SV pulls all
> > the way to 11,000 RPM. So again, I was not comparing the little SV to the
> > 1098. And besides, who wants spoke wheels and tubes these days.
>
> > BTW, why do you suppose the SV-650's are so dominant in the twins class,
> > against the old school ducs 900-1000's in club racing.
>
> They are? Where? Certainly not around here. There is one guy, Ed Key who
> does REALLY, REALLY well in the twins class. But in no way does he
> "dominate" the series. Ed's SV doesn't even resemble an SV any more.
> Been punched out to 750CC IIRC, cutom frame, gixxer front end and
> brakes, etc...
>
> Got any data to back up the claim that they "dominate" the twins classes?

Bob is not content to enjoy his SV650 and rest assured that he got a
better performance per dollar value when he bought than he would have
if he had bought a Ducati. For some reason, it wounds Bob's
sensibilities that *anyone* would choose a lower performance per
dollar value motorcycle than his SV650. I don't get it.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 07:23:45 -0800 (PST), "." <RhiannonX.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Knowledgeable riders, helping other riders is what motorcycling is
>really all about.

Why have you _never_ asked for advice here?

>But, there is a growing majority of RUB's who think that buying a new
>bike
>qualifies them to pontificate on all things related to motorcycling,

Pontificate is all you do.

--
Turby the Turbosurfer
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

_Bob_Nixon_ wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>
>> On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, _Bob_Nixon_ <bi....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The also had one of those $72k RRs on the floor. What an amazing
>>>> bike!
>>>> What to do?
>>> Buy an SV-650 instead. Half the price, roughly the same performance and
>>> prolly way more reliable. Ride one 1st if you disbelieve.
>> I've always thought that SV650s were performance bargains, but roughly
>> the same performance as a Desmosedici? Whoa! THat REALLY is good!
>
> That's not what I said, Tim. Roughly the same as a Duc GT-1000 retro air
> cooled with single intake and exhaust valve and lower compression=less
> torque per cc. Also it's limited to about 8000 RPM whereas an SV pulls all
> the way to 11,000 RPM. So again, I was not comparing the little SV to the
> 1098. And besides, who wants spoke wheels and tubes these days.
>
> BTW, why do you suppose the SV-650's are so dominant in the twins class,
> against the old school ducs 900-1000's in club racing.

They are? Where? Certainly not around here. There is one guy, Ed Key who
does REALLY, REALLY well in the twins class. But in no way does he
"dominate" the series. Ed's SV doesn't even resemble an SV any more.
Been punched out to 750CC IIRC, cutom frame, gixxer front end and
brakes, etc...

Got any data to back up the claim that they "dominate" the twins classes?
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:18:25 +0100, J. Clarke <jclarke.usenet RemoveThis @cox.net>
wrote:

> P.J.Berg wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:37:33 +0100, Terry Coombs
>> <snagone RemoveThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>> saddlebag wrote:
>>>> On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, "BryanUT" <nestl... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> "saddlebag" <saddle... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:173d5aca-3628-440b-842f-a1b47f2276f2@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups..com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> How many miles are on the F4 anyway?
>>>>> 22.5k
>>>>>
>>>>> The bike is only worth about $3500. I am having hard time
>>>>> justify
>>>>> putting
>>>>> over $1000 dollars into it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It starts now. We'll see how it goes come spring. I think I'll
>>>>> try the
>>>>> Marvel Mystry oil.
>>>> If it starts, what the problem? Is it burning oil now? The
>>>> tolerances on your Honda are likely much tighter than on the old
>>>> Ford tractor. That motor oil trick might not work as well.
>>>> Did you change the oil regularly? 22.5k is nothing...especially
>>>> for a stinkin Honda. Such talk has Soichiro spinning in his
>>>> grave.
>>>
>>> I have to agree with saddlebag , that bike is hardly even broken
>>> in ! If your rings WERE stuck , it appears they're unstuck now . I
>>> suspect that dealer is playing you ... get that compression tester
>>> ,
>>> see for yourself what you've got . Test procedures are in every
>>> manual . --
>>> Snag
>>> Harley's , Honda's , and a Kawasaki ...
>>
>> The problem is to find a compression tester with the correct plug
>> adapter. This goes for both 10 and 12mm plugs..
>> If you can access the plughole "straight", you can use the rubber
>> cone
>> type, just lean against it hard enough, and have a friend run the
>> starter at w.o.t.
>
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947089000P?keyword=compression+tester
> includes adapters for 10, 12, 14, and 18mm. Should be in stock at
> your local Sears.

Very nice!
Even comes with an Air hold adapter, lets you diagnose leaks/compressions
issues on your own.

I was looking for something like this for work, aprox a year ago, did not
find any.
Totally forgott about Sears selling tools..

J.

>
>> If the bike runs normally and starts normally both warm and cold, I
>> doubth your problems are compression related.
>>
>> Do you at any time get any poping/backfire sounds either in the
>> airfilterbox or out the exhaust?
>> Could happen both at accel and deceleration.
>>
>> If you experience either(With a non leaky exhaust) you most likely
>> have slightly burned valveseats/valves. Poping out the exhaust =
>> leaky exhaust valves, in the airfilterbox = intake valves.
>>
>> Burned valves/valveseats are often caused by valve clearance being
>> out of spec, as in tight. This again is often due to negelect of
>> service schemes at correct intervals.
>>
>> It can sometimes(as in rare) be caused by ignition timing being way
>> off, as in retarded(related to exhaust valves).
>>
>> J.
>



--
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 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 17, 9:08 am, Tim <ct.mor....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> You should let go of your anger. Maybe the people you call "damned
> fools" just have a different way of having fun with their friends
> than you do.
>
> Could it be as simple as that?

Did it ever occur to you that the majority of Damned Fools are out on
weekends, riding around with people that they know little or nothing
about, but they meet every weekend and ride to some road house to have
lunch with strangers merely because
the strangers own the same kind of motorcycle they do?

How many times have you been asked to go on a funeral ride for some
rider you hardly knew?

Last time I went on a funeral ride, I met this rider's family and they
asked how we knew him, and he had never said a word about having any
relatives, he just showed up to ride with the riders at the hangout
every weekend.

Another rider was at least honest about it when he was invited to go
to a funeral. He said, "Why should I go to that guy's funeral? I
hardly know him, except we went on a few group rides.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 17, 12:14 pm, Tim <ct.mor....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 17, 11:28 am, Steve Mackay <steve_mac....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > _Bob_Nixon_ wrote:
> > > Tim wrote:
>
> > >> On Feb 16, 4:19 pm, _Bob_Nixon_ <bi....TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>> The also had one of those $72k  RRs on the floor.  What an amazing
> > >>>> bike!
> > >>>> What to do?
> > >>> Buy an SV-650 instead. Half the price, roughly the same performance and
> > >>> prolly way more reliable. Ride one 1st if you disbelieve.
> > >> I've always thought that SV650s were performance bargains, but roughly
> > >> the same performance as a Desmosedici?  Whoa!   THat REALLY is good!
>
> > > That's not what I said, Tim. Roughly the same as a Duc GT-1000 retro air
> > > cooled with single intake and exhaust valve and lower compression=less
> > > torque per cc. Also it's limited to about 8000 RPM whereas an SV pulls all
> > > the way to 11,000 RPM. So again, I was not comparing the little SV to the
> > > 1098. And besides, who wants spoke wheels and tubes these days.
>
> > > BTW, why do you suppose the SV-650's are so dominant in the twins class,
> > > against the old school ducs 900-1000's in club racing.
>
> > They are? Where? Certainly not around here. There is one guy, Ed Key who
> > does REALLY, REALLY well in the twins class. But in no way does he
> > "dominate" the series. Ed's SV doesn't even resemble an SV any more.
> > Been punched out to 750CC IIRC, cutom frame, gixxer front end and
> > brakes, etc...
>
> > Got any data to back up the claim that they "dominate" the twins classes?
>
> Bob is not content to enjoy his SV650 and rest assured that he got a
> better performance per dollar value when he bought than he would have
> if he had bought a Ducati.

Conversely, Tim is not content to allow Bob to discuss motorcycles
freely and openly on their merits.

> For some reason, it wounds Bob's
> sensibilities that *anyone* would choose a lower performance per
> dollar value motorcycle than his SV650.

Just because Bob states *his* reasons for owning an SV doesn't mean
other bikes "wound his sensibilities." He's posted tons of images of
a wide range of motorcycles. He seems to mix and mingle with everyone
just fine. He's perfectly within the bounds of reason to lend his
experienced opinion to a prospective buyer.

> I don't get it.

You're an emotion guy. Appeals to logic don't seem to have a lot of
effect on you. That's OK.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

> Knowledgeable riders, helping other riders is what motorcycling is
> really all about.
>

No...riding motorcycles is what its all about. Sportbikes in
particular at AMS I suppose....anything will do in reeky I suppose....
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

saddlebag wrote:
> On Feb 17, 10:23 am, "." <Rhiann....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>> That entirely defeats the purpose of a newsgroup, as any Damned Fool
>> can say, "Take it to the shop".
>
> Yeah, but sometime it just makes sense. Am I going to buy and store a
> $1000 worth of hoisting equipment so I can remove the fork tubes to
> change the oil because Ducati didn't see fit to put a drain hole at
> the bottom? Am I going to buy a $500 tensioning tool to replace belts
> in it once every 15k miles when I might want a totally different bike
> in a year or two?

No sane person would pay $1000 for hoisting equipment when
a fence stretcher and a couple of tow straps looped over
the rafters will do the trick nicely. I suspect there's
a few good Ducati mechanics who get along fine without that
$500 tensioning tool, too.

--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping