Ducati shopping

On Feb 21, 7:54 pm, "." <Rhiann....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 5:01�pm, saddlebag <saddle....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Hell no, he ought to be a Republican party leader.
>
> If the lumpen proletariat will accept my dictatorship, they can call
> American National Socialism anything they want.

America does seem ready to vote for "change."
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

saddlebag wrote:
> On Feb 21, 11:34 am, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use... DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
>> saddlebag wrote:
>>> On Feb 20, 6:03 pm, Tim <ct.mor... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Feb 20, 5:55 pm, saddlebag <saddle... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Feb 20, 8:17 am, Mark Olson <ols... DeleteThis @tiny.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> saddlebag wrote:
>>>>>>> OK, if he's doing surgery, maybe DIY doesn't make quite as
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> sense. Though it makes about as much sense as me buying a $3k
>>>>>>> box
>>>>>>> of shims and $500 belt tensioner and spend a week of free time
>>>>>>> doing something I can pay someone a few hundred bucks to do. I
>>>>>>> might have to spring for one of them Pit Bulls though.
>>
>>>>>> Once again, I find myself agreeing with you- on the specific
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> that DIY surgery would be pretty dumb. However, you present an
>>>>>> implied false dichotomy. Choosing to do a service on your own
>>>>>> Ducati does not mean spending a week of free time, buying a $3k
>>>>>> box of shims and a $500 belt tensioner.
>>
>>>>>> Again, where _do_ you dig this stuff out of?
>>
>>>>> A service manual.
>>
>>>> Interesting. I've been riding and working on my own Ducatis since
>>>> 1986. I have bought and owned a number of Ducati special tools
>>>> over
>>>> the years, and at one time had quite the collection of shims for
>>>> the
>>>> bevel-drive v-twins (I owned three of them over the years).
>>
>>>> And yet, never have I needed a $3,000 set of shims in order to
>>>> inspect or adjust the valves on any of my Ducatis, nor have I
>>>> needed
>>>> a $500 belt tensioner, and I can't for the life of me remember
>>>> ANY
>>>> of my service manuals directing me to purchase those items prior
>>>> to
>>>> servicing any of my Ducatis.
>>
>>> Really? My Haynes manual has quite an extensive list of tools. I
>>> barely scratched the surface. To be fair they do list a method of
>>> tensioning the belts without a tensioner, but qualify it by
>>> stating
>>> "If this method is used, ensure that belt tension is measured with
>>> a
>>> belt tensioning guage at the earliest possible opportunity." And I
>>> suppose you can order and wait for shims to come in from Italy
>>> (and
>>> if
>>> Mark thinks that's less than a weeks worth time he's never dealt
>>> with
>>> the life loving Italians in the summertime). Otherwise, you get
>>> yourself a set of all possible sizes. Last time I checked a silly
>>> box
>>> of them was ~$3k if memory serves.
>>
>> Well, now, it seems to me that if you can't go down to the dealer
>> and
>> buy the shims then the dealer has to wait for them to come from
>> Italy
>> too, so you've got the same downtime either way, unless he's the
>> kind
>> of asshat who won't sell you parts.
>
> Go down to your local dealer and see if he'll pull a shim out of a
> money making mechanics stock

So you're saying that each Ducati mechanic pays 3000 bucks for one of
these sets of shims rather than the dealer having a set that is shared
among all his mechanics?

> so you don't have to use said mechanic,
> but yet will make said mechanic force a paying customer to wait
> because a DIY'r wanted his part ASAP.

Well, if the dealer manages his inventory so poorly that somebody
coming in and buying a shim is going to exhaust his stock, well, that
dealer is not going to be around much longer.

> Good luck. Most dealerships in
> my area charge you a 40% fee to mount a tire if it wasn't purchased
> from them let alone let customers go digging thru mechanics supply
> chests.


A "40% fee"? 40% of _what_? The price of the tire? The price of the
bike? The price of a night with the dealer's wife? And no doubt if
you brought your own shims they'd still charge you labor to put them
in. I'm sorry, but charging labor to install a customer-provided part
is not the same as refusing to sell the customer that same part.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:53:07 -0800 (PST), Vaughn <vbrandt.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>> Hey, that's a concise description of BryanUT, who was very isolated as
>> a child, living in officer's housing on Air Force bases. Now he craves
>> the attention he missed as a kid.
>
>I've met a lot of real psychopaths in my professional work, most of
>whom were institutionalized, and although I haven't administered a PCL-
>R, the Bry-guy doesn't seem to fit the criteria for psychopathy. At
>all.

After having the pleasure of meeting and chasing Bryan on his F4i, on
a few occasions, over the years, I can tell you he is one hell of a
nice guy, one who likes adventure and is willing to lend a hand to any
rider, or person for that matter. He is also a heck of a good tour
guide.

I am proud to call him my friend.


--
See Ya On The Road

2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:36:14 -0800 (PST), Tim <ct.morrow RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 21, 5:21 pm, Vaughn <vbra... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 3:57 pm, Tim <ct.mor... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 21, 4:53 pm, Vaughn <vbra... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Feb 21, 3:38 pm, "." <Rhiann... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Feb 21, 1:26?pm, Vaughn <vbra... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > > If you were making a play on words with "psychopath" + "sycophant,"
>> > > > > then you'd need to also make a case that Byran likes creating victims/
>> > > > > harming others and expresses no remorse, as well as being attention
>> > > > > seeking.
>>
>> > > > Hey, that's a concise description of BryanUT, who was very isolated as
>> > > > a child, living in officer's housing on Air Force bases. Now he craves
>> > > > the attention he missed as a kid.
>>
>> > > I've met a lot of real psychopaths in my professional work, most of
>> > > whom were institutionalized
>>
>> > And here, in Krusty Kritter, you've met one in your personal, online
>> > life, who ought to be, but isn't, institutionalized.
>>
>> > What a coincidence!
>>
>> Do you have a reason to believe he is an imminent physical threat to
>> himself or others?
>>
>> Viewpoints, philosophy, and 'isms do not meet the legal criteria for a
>> civil commitment.
>
>Joke, Vaughn. J.O.K.E.

But probably not far from the truth. <g>


--
See Ya On The Road

2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:40:53 -0800 (PST), Vaughn <vbrandt RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 21, 4:30 pm, "." <Rhiann... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 21, 1:57?pm, Tim <ct.mor... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > And here, in Krusty Kritter, you've met one in your personal, online
>> > life, who ought to be, but isn't, institutionalized.
>>
>> What fun I could have, if only a psychiatrist would convince a judge
>> that I was a
>> psychoceramic who didn't know Left from Wrong...
>
>It doesn't always take a head shrinker to get you there. There's also
>the possibility of a third party petition or an emergency
>detention.... These can last anywhere from 72 hours to six months,
>and even longer if they occur over state lines!
>
>Just sayin'.
>
>
>
>
I am thinking you are far too familiar with this topic and am hoping
it is because you work in the profession. <g>


--
See Ya On The Road

2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

>> Saddle, Honda Hoot, I'm considering it, what you doing the 3rd week
>> of
>> June? I've got me a tuned, new rear tired, prepped, engine guarded,
>> highway pegged, track shocked couch just RARIN to go, and thats the
>> week I'm going.

>Not to be a crusher of dreams, but why?

Something to do?

>Hoot advantages:
>1) Loads of aftermarketers displaying their wares in one convient
>location.

Like the AMA race at Mid-O?

>2) Demo rides.

They got any antique POS Japanese machines I might be interested in?
ST1100? The original Connie? 900 Ninja's?

>3) Nice afternoon excursions that can be enjoyed with other unkempt
>two wheel types.

I don't do groups well. Well...unless the group is less than 3 or 4
and we're all within a couple of feet of each other trying to occupy
the same space entering a turn....THAT is cool group.

>Hoot disadvantages:
>1) You pay and wear a rubber braclet around if you want to realize
>any
>of the advantages.

Could be worse.

>2) Old, fat wing women drive young hot Tenn hillgirls with sexy
>accents into hiding.

Mid-O sounds better...the young girlies tend towards halter tops and
such....

>3) All the good roads flooded with slowbies and plenty of cops to
>haul
>them to the hospital after they get carried away.

Damn. I didn't realize until now that my timing is the same as the
Hoot whether I go to the Hoot or not.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 21, 11:49 pm, "TroytheTroll" <f4_....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Saddle, Honda Hoot, I'm considering it, what you doing the 3rd week
> >> of
> >> June? I've got me a tuned, new rear tired, prepped, engine guarded,
> >> highway pegged, track shocked couch just RARIN to go, and thats the
> >> week I'm going.
> >Not to be a crusher of dreams, but why?
>
> Something to do?
>
> >Hoot advantages:
> >1) Loads of aftermarketers displaying their wares in one convient
> >location.
>
> Like the AMA race at Mid-O?

Only bigger and many are indoors.

> >2) Demo rides.
>
> They got any antique POS Japanese machines I might be interested in?
> ST1100? The original Connie? 900 Ninja's?

You could hop on a demo rider's bike and take it for a spin while he's
waiting for his chance to tame a B-King.

> >3) Nice afternoon excursions that can be enjoyed with other unkempt
> >two wheel types.
>
> I don't do groups well. Well...unless the group is less than 3 or 4
> and we're all within a couple of feet of each other trying to occupy
> the same space entering a turn....THAT is cool group.

You don't have to ride to the events in groups, though I suppose you
could. There's whitewater rafting, cave exploring, and the like.

> >Hoot disadvantages:
> >1) You pay and wear a rubber braclet around if you want to realize
> >any
> >of the advantages.
>
> Could be worse.
>
> >2) Old, fat wing women drive young hot Tenn hillgirls with sexy
> >accents into hiding.
>
> Mid-O sounds better...the young girlies tend towards halter tops and
> such....
>
> >3) All the good roads flooded with slowbies and plenty of cops to
> >haul
> >them to the hospital after they get carried away.
>
> Damn. I didn't realize until now that my timing is the same as the
> Hoot whether I go to the Hoot or not.

It's worth attending if you haven't done it before. There's a chance
you might win a bike or some polish for the UJM.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 21, 11:29 pm, Tim <ct.mor....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 7:42 pm, saddlebag <saddle....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 1:34 pm, Tim <ct.mor....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 21, 11:34 am, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use....DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > saddlebag wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 20, 6:03 pm, Tim <ct.mor....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> On Feb 20, 5:55 pm, saddlebag <saddle....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >>> On Feb 20, 8:17 am, Mark Olson <ols....DeleteThis@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > >>>> saddlebag wrote:
> > > > >>>>> OK, if he's doing surgery, maybe DIY doesn't make quite as much
> > > > >>>>> sense. Though it makes about as much sense as me buying a $3k
> > > > >>>>> box
> > > > >>>>> of shims and $500 belt tensioner and spend a week of free time
> > > > >>>>> doing something I can pay someone a few hundred bucks to do. I
> > > > >>>>> might have to spring for one of them Pit Bulls though.
>
> > > > >>>> Once again, I find myself agreeing with you- on the specific
> > > > >>>> point
> > > > >>>> that DIY surgery would be pretty dumb. However, you present an
> > > > >>>> implied false dichotomy. Choosing to do a service on your own
> > > > >>>> Ducati does not mean spending a week of free time, buying a $3k
> > > > >>>> box of shims and a $500 belt tensioner.
>
> > > > >>>> Again, where _do_ you dig this stuff out of?
>
> > > > >>> A service manual.
>
> > > > >> Interesting. I've been riding and working on my own Ducatis since
> > > > >> 1986. I have bought and owned a number of Ducati special tools over
> > > > >> the years, and at one time had quite the collection of shims for
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> bevel-drive v-twins (I owned three of them over the years).
>
> > > > >> And yet, never have I needed a $3,000 set of shims in order to
> > > > >> inspect or adjust the valves on any of my Ducatis, nor have I
> > > > >> needed
> > > > >> a $500 belt tensioner, and I can't for the life of me remember ANY
> > > > >> of my service manuals directing me to purchase those items prior to
> > > > >> servicing any of my Ducatis.
>
> > > > > Really?  My Haynes manual has quite an extensive list of tools.  I
> > > > > barely scratched the surface.  To be fair they do list a method of
> > > > > tensioning the belts without a tensioner, but qualify it by stating
> > > > > "If this method is used, ensure that belt tension is measured with a
> > > > > belt tensioning guage at the earliest possible opportunity."  And I
> > > > > suppose you can order and wait for shims to come in from Italy (and
> > > > > if
> > > > > Mark thinks that's less than a weeks worth time he's never dealt
> > > > > with
> > > > > the life loving Italians in the summertime).  Otherwise, you get
> > > > > yourself a set of all possible sizes.  Last time I checked a silly
> > > > > box
> > > > > of them was ~$3k if memory serves.
>
> > > > Well, now, it seems to me that if you can't go down to the dealer and
> > > > buy the shims then the dealer has to wait for them to come from Italy
> > > > too, so you've got the same downtime either way, unless he's the kind
> > > > of asshat who won't sell you parts.
>
> > > I hang out with a large group of Ducati Monster owners and riders.  My
> > > race sponsor is a franchised Ducati dealer.  One of my best friends
> > > was a franchised Ducati dealer for 19 years (he's an independent
> > > now).  Not once in all the years I've owned Ducatis, known these
> > > folks, ridden and wrenched and built racebikes and customized Ducatis,
> > > not once have I ever heard of anyone ever having their Ducati laid up
> > > because of a lack of an available valve shim.  Not once.   Oh, I had
> > > to wait two weeks once for a complete throttle body assembly for a
> > > brand new model with a brand new FI system that had a bad TPS sensor,
> > > but never for shims.   And I don't know a single Ducati enthusiast -
> > > even those who build their own engines - who owns a complete factory
> > > set of shims.
>
> > So they just fudge it when they don't have the proper size?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You apparently are unaware that there is both a range of acceptable
> clearances and a range of different shim thicknesses.  

OK, ya got me. Now run off and gloat.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 21, 7:12 pm, saddlebag <saddle... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

> Oh dear god Krusty, that frame is what makes the bike. There is
> NOTHING else I've ever ridden that compares. Now if you want to knock
> that ancient surround engine, mild steel Flexy(tm) tubing of certain
> American cruisers OK, but detracting from the O'mighty Chrome-Moly
> trellis is heresy and must be punished as such.

The word on The Crest was that the trellis frame has to be so wide to
avoid flexing, it limits steering lock. So one rider advised that if
you needed to turn around on The Crest, you just just swap Ducatis
with a rider going the way you wanted to go.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 21, 8:37�pm, Tim <ct.mor....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 8:52�pm, "." <Rhiann....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> > My impression of the original *Cagiva* motor with rubber belt cam
> > drive is that they found it cheaper than designing a building a chain
> > drive or gear drive system.
>
> No. �Taglioni designed the Pantah 500cc belt-driven overhead cam motor
> in 1978, long before Cagiva rescued Ducati from near-bankruptcy in
> 1985.

I'll bet you have a Dr. T shrine and you chant the desmodromic liturgy
in Italian five times a day, while sipping libations of chianti...

� The engine was designed to minimize production costs, because
> the hand shimming of the bevel-drive tower gear ohc engines made each
> one prohibitively expensive to build (snip)

Well, there ya go. The "rubber band" Ducati is a cost-effective
solution to building engines, but the owner has to keep changing cam
drive belts, so he's the one who takes the loss.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

>> >Hoot advantages:
>> >1) Loads of aftermarketers displaying their wares in one convient
>> >location.
>>
>> Like the AMA race at Mid-O?

>Only bigger and many are indoors.

I don't take a week off to go riding to BUY stuff.


>> >3) Nice afternoon excursions that can be enjoyed with other
>> >unkempt
>> >two wheel types.
>>
>> I don't do groups well. Well...unless the group is less than 3 or 4
>> and we're all within a couple of feet of each other trying to
>> occupy
>> the same space entering a turn....THAT is cool group.

>You don't have to ride to the events in groups, though I suppose you
>could. There's whitewater rafting, cave exploring, and the like.

See....I'm taking the week off to RIDE...if I want to VACATION I'll
drag the kids along, or the ENTIRE gang. This doesn't sound like such
a good idea anymore.


>> >3) All the good roads flooded with slowbies and plenty of cops to
>> >haul
>> >them to the hospital after they get carried away.
>>
>> Damn. I didn't realize until now that my timing is the same as the
>> Hoot whether I go to the Hoot or not.

>It's worth attending if you haven't done it before. There's a chance
>you might win a bike or some polish for the UJM.

There isn't enough chrome on the UJM to polish except for the pipes,
and they look older and ratty....next time I'm headed out for a ride
maybe I'll offer a dentist a few bucks to do mine as well as his?
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 22, 10:50 am, "." <Rhiann... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 8:37�pm, Tim <ct.mor... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 8:52�pm, "." <Rhiann... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > > My impression of the original *Cagiva* motor with rubber belt cam
> > > drive is that they found it cheaper than designing a building a chain
> > > drive or gear drive system.
>
> > No. �Taglioni designed the Pantah 500cc belt-driven overhead cam motor
> > in 1978, long before Cagiva rescued Ducati from near-bankruptcy in
> > 1985.
>
> I'll bet you have a Dr. T shrine and you chant the desmodromic liturgy
> in Italian five times a day, while sipping libations of chianti...
>
>  � The engine was designed to minimize production costs, because
>
> > the hand shimming of the bevel-drive tower gear ohc engines made each
> > one prohibitively expensive to build (snip)
>
> Well, there ya go. The "rubber band" Ducati is a cost-effective
> solution to building engines, but the owner has to keep changing cam
> drive belts, so he's the one who takes the loss.

I guess that's why you don't see any Ducatis at your trailer park.
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping 

On Feb 22, 8:35�am, Tim <ct.mor... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess that's why you don't see any Ducatis at your trailer park.

There is NO Ducati $tealer in this county, or in three other
surrounding counties.

I would have to ride 150 miles every time I needed some chickenshit
little part.

OTOH, my cousin's Suzuki dealership is a mile away. Who do you think
I'm going to do business with?
 >> Stay informed about: Ducati shopping