Drained Battery Help

Morgan Vening wrote:
> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
> heavy.
>
> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>
> So, the question now, is what now?

Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
your new charger to complete the job.

JL
(in most cases push starting with a fully flat battery will also be
difficult - depends on how well your gen/alternator works at low rpm)
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

On Nov 13, 11:04 am, Morgan Vening <mor... DeleteThis @optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:10:04 GMT, "alxr" <a... DeleteThis @c.d> wrote:
> >Adding to above observations/comments..
>
> >How old is the "dead" battery?
> New bike, purchased June this year. Battery included. *wry smile*

"Smart" battery chargers (which switch to a float voltage of about
13.5V after taking the battery up to about 13.9V initially) normally
wont charge a battery if the terminal voltage has dropped below 4 or 5V
as they're considered to be well and truly rooted. The terminal
voltage might come up after resting for a while (a cheap digital
multimeter is useful for testing here), but then again it might not.

Either way the battery is probably salvagable provided you don't leave
it in a discharged state much longer. While a lead acid battery is
discharged sulphation is building up on the lead plates, increasing
internal resistance (so voltage will fall away under high current loads
like cranking a motor) and reducing the ability of the battery to
accept and hold a charge. Once this process goes too far it's
basically irreversable (ignoring electronic desulphators) and charging
will stop, but not reverse it.

So if you're going to do anything, you better do it soon (borrow a dumb
12V charger that won't care what the terminal voltage of the battery
is) or take the battery for recycling, don't chuck in landfill.
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Morgan Vening wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
> <jlittler RemoveThis @my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >Morgan Vening wrote:
> >> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
> >> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
> >> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
> >> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
....snippery
> >Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
> >circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
> >usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
> >leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
> >your new charger to complete the job.

snip
> I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
> an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
> the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.

Weight might be a reason but the bike should start on a push start even
if the battery is dead flat, the trick is you might need more rolling
speed to generate enough current then you may be capable of pushing it
up to.


> Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
> full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?

It doesn't matter - you'll only have this problem with the charger when
it is DEAD flat (or the battery really is rooted in which case trying
to charge it is a waste of time), if you're not riding it at all then
stick on the charger once every month or so and it'll be fine.

How do you know charge is waning ? Well you can use a multimeter and
measure voltage across the battery terminals, or do what everyone else
does who has an infrequently used bike - charge it up whenever you
think of it.

> Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
> get it charged?

Get it charged now and it should be fine, stash it away as a spare in
the shed and top up the charge occasionally or flog it off on Ebay for
$20

>Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
> to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
> Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.

The places that recycle aluminium cans will happy take it and give you
a couple of bucks for it

> So, I'm not a happy chapper, but it's done now. Note to self, don't be
> a f'n idiot.

Always a good idea, never worked for me so far, but I keep making the
mental note

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

J5 wrote:
> <jlittler DeleteThis @my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1163385506.589129.175670@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Morgan Vening wrote:
> >> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
>> <jlittler DeleteThis @my-deja.com> wrote:
> > The places that recycle aluminium cans will happy take it and give you
> > a couple of bucks for it
>
> first ive heard of that
>
> i either take it to the battery place and they take me or to the tip where
> they recycle
> batteries, cardboard, steel etc , free to drop off

Lead is recyclable - I assume they still do it - they used to.

JL
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Jump start it from another vehicle????
Get someone to help push????
Buy a new battery????


"Morgan Vening" <morgan RemoveThis @optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:7a1fl2t1rc61h6s3aubgujpis8lrjbdu7g@4ax.com...
> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
> heavy.
>
> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>
> So, the question now, is what now?
>
> Morgan Vening
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
<jlittler.DeleteThis@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Morgan Vening wrote:
>> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
>> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
>> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
>> heavy.
>>
>> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
>> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
>> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
>> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>>
>> So, the question now, is what now?
>
>Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
>circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
>usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
>leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
>your new charger to complete the job.
>
>JL
>(in most cases push starting with a fully flat battery will also be
>difficult - depends on how well your gen/alternator works at low rpm)

I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.

Jump starting might have worked, but as I work night shift, I needed
to get it operational asap. But thanks for that advice, I will keep it
in mind if it ever happens again.

Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?

Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
get it charged? Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.

So, I'm not a happy chapper, but it's done now. Note to self, don't be
a f'n idiot.

Morgan Vening
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Adding to above observations/comments..

How old is the "dead" battery?

If you absolutely positively must rely on the bike for transport...get a new
battery...

Get the old one tested at a battery specialist if you consider it may still
be redeemable.


"Morgan Vening" <morgan.DeleteThis@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:av9fl21loahvk3d2veu1b00g9qgjcvkeoa@4ax.com...
> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
> <jlittler.DeleteThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>Morgan Vening wrote:
>>> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
>>> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
>>> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
>>> heavy.
>>>
>>> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
>>> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
>>> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
>>> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>>>
>>> So, the question now, is what now?
>>
>>Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
>>circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
>>usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
>>leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
>>your new charger to complete the job.
>>
>>JL
>>(in most cases push starting with a fully flat battery will also be
>>difficult - depends on how well your gen/alternator works at low rpm)
>
> I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
> an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
> the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.
>
> Jump starting might have worked, but as I work night shift, I needed
> to get it operational asap. But thanks for that advice, I will keep it
> in mind if it ever happens again.
>
> Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
> full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?
>
> Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
> get it charged? Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
> to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
> Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.
>
> So, I'm not a happy chapper, but it's done now. Note to self, don't be
> a f'n idiot.
>
> Morgan Vening
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Morgan Vening wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
> <jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Morgan Vening wrote:
>>> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
>>> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
>>> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
>>> heavy.
>>>
>>> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
>>> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
>>> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
>>> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>>>
>>> So, the question now, is what now?
>> Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
>> circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
>> usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
>> leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
>> your new charger to complete the job.
>>
>> JL
>> (in most cases push starting with a fully flat battery will also be
>> difficult - depends on how well your gen/alternator works at low rpm)
>
> I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
> an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
> the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.
>
> Jump starting might have worked, but as I work night shift, I needed
> to get it operational asap. But thanks for that advice, I will keep it
> in mind if it ever happens again.
>
> Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
> full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?
>
> Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
> get it charged? Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
> to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
> Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.
>
> So, I'm not a happy chapper, but it's done now. Note to self, don't be
> a f'n idiot.
>
> Morgan Vening
Once you have it charged and on the shelf it will need a small top up at
on a monthly basis normally
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:10:04 GMT, "alxr" <a.a RemoveThis @c.d> wrote:

>Adding to above observations/comments..
>
>How old is the "dead" battery?

New bike, purchased June this year. Battery included. *wry smile*

>If you absolutely positively must rely on the bike for transport...get a new
>battery...
>
>Get the old one tested at a battery specialist if you consider it may still
>be redeemable.
>
>
>"Morgan Vening" <morgan RemoveThis @optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>news:av9fl21loahvk3d2veu1b00g9qgjcvkeoa@4ax.com...
>> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
>> <jlittler RemoveThis @my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Morgan Vening wrote:
>>>> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
>>>> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
>>>> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
>>>> heavy.
>>>>
>>>> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
>>>> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
>>>> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
>>>> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>>>>
>>>> So, the question now, is what now?
>>>
>>>Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
>>>circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
>>>usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
>>>leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
>>>your new charger to complete the job.
>>>
>>>JL
>>>(in most cases push starting with a fully flat battery will also be
>>>difficult - depends on how well your gen/alternator works at low rpm)
>>
>> I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
>> an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
>> the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.
>>
>> Jump starting might have worked, but as I work night shift, I needed
>> to get it operational asap. But thanks for that advice, I will keep it
>> in mind if it ever happens again.
>>
>> Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
>> full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?
>>
>> Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
>> get it charged? Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
>> to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
>> Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.
>>
>> So, I'm not a happy chapper, but it's done now. Note to self, don't be
>> a f'n idiot.
>>
>> Morgan Vening
>
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

<jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1163385506.589129.175670@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Morgan Vening wrote:
>> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
>> <jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Morgan Vening wrote:
>> >> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
>> >> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
>> >> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
>> >> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
> ...snippery
>> >Most cheapie battery chargers won't recharge a fully flat battery (the
>> >circuit breaker sees them as "open circuit" and turns the power off
>> >usually), jump start from a running vehicle (using appropriate jumper
>> >leads if you have EFI), take it for a long ride then put the battery on
>> >your new charger to complete the job.
>
> snip
>> I took BGN's advice proactively (buy new one), as push starting wasn't
>> an option (CB900, electronic fuel injection). Bike's too heavy, and
>> the electrics need to be on for it to work anyway.
>
> Weight might be a reason but the bike should start on a push start even
> if the battery is dead flat, the trick is you might need more rolling
> speed to generate enough current then you may be capable of pushing it
> up to.

unless its dropped a cell and then you have buckleys

>
>
>> Pretty annoyed that a battery charger won't charge. On a bike without
>> full full displays, how do you know when the charge is waning?
>
> It doesn't matter - you'll only have this problem with the charger when
> it is DEAD flat (or the battery really is rooted in which case trying
> to charge it is a waste of time), if you're not riding it at all then
> stick on the charger once every month or so and it'll be fine.
>
> How do you know charge is waning ? Well you can use a multimeter and
> measure voltage across the battery terminals, or do what everyone else
> does who has an infrequently used bike - charge it up whenever you
> think of it.
>
>> Also, is there any point behind keeping the old battery and trying to
>> get it charged?
>
> Get it charged now and it should be fine, stash it away as a spare in
> the shed and top up the charge occasionally or flog it off on Ebay for
> $20
>
>>Or is the shelf life for a depleted battery too small
>> to worry about? If not, what's the best way to properly dispose of it?
>> Obviously, garbage collection is not environmentally sound.
>
> The places that recycle aluminium cans will happy take it and give you
> a couple of bucks for it

first ive heard of that

i either take it to the battery place and they take me or to the tip where
they recycle
batteries, cardboard, steel etc , free to drop off
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Jumper leads from a good battery to get the bike started, then let it run
for a while to let the alternator get some charge into it. The battery
charger should work after that to bring it to full charge.

Al

"Morgan Vening" <morgan.TakeThisOut@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:7a1fl2t1rc61h6s3aubgujpis8lrjbdu7g@4ax.com...
> It seems I was incredibly stupid last night, and left the ignition on.
> 15 hours later, I realise my stupidity, and the battery is fair enough
> drained. Push starting was attempted, and failed, as the bike is too
> heavy.
>
> So I went down to Bunnings, and got a 12V battery charger. Turned it
> on, and it failed to charge. According to the FAQ in the back, this
> indicates either a faulty battery cell, or a 'deep drained' battery.
> Or, the charger just isn't suitable.
>
> So, the question now, is what now?
>
> Morgan Vening
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

<jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1163401665.838930.241000@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> J5 wrote:
>> <jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:1163385506.589129.175670@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > Morgan Vening wrote:
>> >> On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
> >> <jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> > The places that recycle aluminium cans will happy take it and give you
>> > a couple of bucks for it
>>
>> first ive heard of that
>>
>> i either take it to the battery place and they take me or to the tip
>> where
>> they recycle
>> batteries, cardboard, steel etc , free to drop off
>
> Lead is recyclable - I assume they still do it - they used to.
>
> JL
>
I remember that too John. It was always how we used to get rid of them.

Al
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help 

Alan Pennykid wrote:
> <jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1163401665.838930.241000@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>J5 wrote:
>>>>>On 12 Nov 2006 14:37:37 -0800, "jlittler@my-deja.com"
>>>>
>>>><jlittler.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>The places that recycle aluminium cans will happy take it and give you
>>>>a couple of bucks for it
>>>
>>>first ive heard of that
>>>
>>>i either take it to the battery place and they take me or to the tip
>>>where
>>>they recycle
>>>batteries, cardboard, steel etc , free to drop off
>>
>>Lead is recyclable - I assume they still do it - they used to.
>>
>>JL
>>
>
> I remember that too John. It was always how we used to get rid of them.

Oops am I displaying my age again ?

JL
(I was 4 at the time, honest !!)
 >> Stay informed about: Drained Battery Help