Fuel injection?

Go to your favorite auto parts store and buy a can/bottle of injector
cleaner. Fuel injectors have a much higher clearance than the old
fashoned carburators. Gunk buildup happens at a faster rate than in
normal situations. I can't wait till they put fuel injection in
dirtbikes. OF.
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

justwaitafrekinminute.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 26, 8:47 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I ask here because you guys know everything.
>>
>> My 88 Caddy has started to stumble when I stomp on the gas. It's got
>> 56,000 miles on it (it was my mom's car) and she had it tuned regularly,
>> except it hasn't been touched except to change the oil and filters for
>> perhaps 3 years. I'll probably pay for a tuneup when it needs to get
>> smogged in May, but I'm wondering if there's anything simple I can do now.
>>
>> I can run it up to high speeds with no problem, I just have to do it
>> slowly. Not that I'm addicted to jackrabbitism, but every once in a
>> while you DO have to pass somebody.
>>
>> I've never had anything but carburetors before. Is this likely to be a
>> fuel-injector problem? Is there some magic stuff I can pour into my
>> gastank that will solve the problem?

Wow, I'm overwhelmed! This is far more than I expected!

> I would try that first, some STP or something. Then look at the plug
> wires and check for vacume leaks (read on). If that doesn't work and
> you are handy I would suggest a Mitchell Manual and check the Throttle
> positition sensor. That is however based on very limited information
> you have provided.

I need to order a manual, or at least get one at Pep Boys or someplace.
This is the first "user manual" I've ever seen, and I'm aghast at what
it doesn't tell you. For one thing, it never explains what the little
lever under the left AC vent does. Whatever it does is undetectable.

> If you are going to work on FI you should take some notes about the
> runability. This can help you diagnose the problem.
>
> When does it happen? All the way up through the acceleration or only
> at certain points in the rpm (throttle positition)? If it has bad
> spots in the accelleration/decel/cruise and not at others. I would
> take a real good luck at the Throttle posisition sensor. Those old GM
> TPsensors go bad a lot.

Higher RPM -- but not always. I flipped the indicator to 'RPM' while I
was testing and it dropped maybe 300-400 during each stumble. One stomp
causes several stumbles. If I back off and accelerate smoothly, it
behaves properly. This test (freeway, accelerating from ~55mph to maybe
75) took under 15 seconds.

> Does the outside temperature or humidity make any difference and if so
> what?

I thought it was better when it was raining, but it really wasn't.
Probably wishful thinking and/or an unwillingness to tromp as hard in
the rain.

> Sensors and chips could be suspect here or pointed to. But if
> the skip is all the way up through the RPM range while under load, I
> would look at the plug wires. You can hold down the brakes, put it in
> drive and "load" up the engine by applying some throttle (the intent
> is to not let the car move forward). Please don't do it against your
> house, or anywhere where if the brakes let go, any damage could
> occur...I am trying to help here;) As you bring up the rpm does it
> buck and break up and skip through the rpm range?

Maybe I'll try that in a parking lot tomorrow. Gotta be an empty one
between Pasadena and Big Bear -- I'm going skiing tomorrow.

> If so, wires and cap
> are looking more suspect. Try spraying the engine with a hose,
> specifically the plug wires and such. and "load" it up again. If it
> gets worse, think plug wires, distributor cap, sparkplugs, mosty the
> wires and cap though.

The more I think about this, the more it seems less likely. The Caddy
dealer (may he rot in hell) replaced every damn thing he could think of,
including a valve grind/replace lots of stuff at 40K miles which I
believe was total fraud, especially since it took several weeks with no
good explanation. If it was my car it wouldn't have happened, but my
mommy looked upon it as "I give them green paper and they give me
something I can use" and just bent over and smiled.

> Does it happen when the engine is cold as well as hot, inbetween?

Yes to all.

> Does
> it idle correctly or only when cold, or hot? This could point more to
> sensors, or the wiring to them. This could also point to vacume leaks.

It always idles nicely and it accelerates nicely too, within the limits.

> Check all the vacume lines for breaks, unexpected open points (find
> out what they used to be connected to) and to be sure they are not
> clogged. You can also spray hydrocarbon based cleaner such as cyclo
> around the engine (avoiding the intake itself) and see if the RPM's
> change indicating an air leak into the intake or a vacume line.

I'd forgotten about that too. Friends have had cars whose entire vacuum
lineage rotted out at once.

> Note
> though, vacume leaks tend to be less noticable as the rpm (normal
> intake/restricted leak) go up.

I'll do that at idle. Ordinary carb cleaner?

> These are only suggestions based on how I would start looking at your
> car if I got it cold...
>
> Hope that helps, Good luck, Scotty

After all that, I think I'll try the injector cleaner first. Not that
I'm lazy or anything, I've just gotten out of the habit of fixing cars
-- which I never enjoyed much anyway, I just couldn't see paying some
guy $300 to do something that I could do in an afternoon (well, maybe a
whole day, I'm pretty clumsy).

Don't go 'way, though...

--
Cheers, Bev
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for
anything, but they still bring a smile to your face
when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

oldfart wrote:

> Go to your favorite auto parts store and buy a can/bottle of injector
> cleaner. Fuel injectors have a much higher clearance than the old
> fashoned carburators. Gunk buildup happens at a faster rate than in
> normal situations. I can't wait till they put fuel injection in
> dirtbikes. OF.

See long response to justwaitafrekinminute. Water-cooling seems
sufficiently non-motorcyclic, but I suppose FI and automatic
transmissions (yeah, I know, I think KTM had them a long time ago) are
the wave of the future. Maybe add a couple more wheels for stability...

--
Cheers, Bev
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for
anything, but they still bring a smile to your face
when you push them down a flight of stairs.
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com>
> It always idles nicely and it accelerates nicely too, within the limits.

snip

> --
> Cheers, Bev
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for
> anything, but they still bring a smile to your face
> when you push them down a flight of stairs.

It doesn't sound like a clogged fuel filter, but maybe?

Joe

XL600R
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:47:21 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>I ask here because you guys know everything.
>
>My 88 Caddy has started to stumble when I stomp on the gas. It's got
>56,000 miles on it (it was my mom's car) and she had it tuned regularly,
>except it hasn't been touched except to change the oil and filters for
>perhaps 3 years. I'll probably pay for a tuneup when it needs to get
>smogged in May, but I'm wondering if there's anything simple I can do now.
>
>I can run it up to high speeds with no problem, I just have to do it
>slowly. Not that I'm addicted to jackrabbitism, but every once in a
>while you DO have to pass somebody.
>
>I've never had anything but carburetors before. Is this likely to be a
>fuel-injector problem? Is there some magic stuff I can pour into my
>gastank that will solve the problem?

I really like Scotty's reply. Is it safe to assume that you have no
warning or "check engine" lights coming on? If that's a safe
assumption, I'd really suggest another simple test of the plug wires:
Just find a dark place one night (away from street lights), start the
car, pop the hood and get out and have a look-see. My '91 Chevy S-10
(4.3 v6) was *notorious* for arcing plug wires. The replacement wires
from Autozone, Pep Boys, Napa, etc. wouldn't last without some
creative routing to keep them away from the manifold... and each
other. But it's easy to spot in darkness as it looks like a fireworks
show under your hood. In your case though, you may need someone inside
pushing the gas peddle to get up to higher RPMs (if you can't do it
from under the hood while at the same time looking for possible
arcing).

Like Scotty, I would suspect plug wires or fuel injection cleaner.
Most anything else (like vacuum lines) would probably set of codes
(they did in my S-10 and my '02 Dakota, anyway). In fact, my Dakota
issued a "massive vacuum leak" code last year. I searched all under
the hood and replaced two lines that looked questionable (they had
been rubbing on other parts). Still had the code though. So I searched
online to see if this was common. I discovered that the smog lines on
my Dakota run clear back to the fuel tank, so I crawled beneath the
truck for a cursory glance, not really anticipating much.

Low and behold, this 6"long, 1/2" diameter, U-shaped rubber tube
installed between a pair of metal tubes was completely off on one end!
The rubber was brittle and rotten, so I yanked it off and found a
replacement at Autozone. No more "massive vacuum leak" code.

PS -- I was gonna just reply; "Check your points," but thought better
of it ;-p


Fred Bradford - CrashTestDummy
fjbradfordREMOVE.TakeThisOut@tx.rr.com
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

On Feb 26, 10:47 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I ask here because you guys know everything.

Bev,

There are sensors on the throttle body (throttle position sensor), on
the intake manifold (MAP sensor) and on the exhaust (lambda sensor).
If you remove any of those, one at a time, the engine will still run
on the FI computer's default. If it runs better with the sensor
unplugged, then, that's the problem, replace sensor, problem solved.

Also, I found working on FI much easier than working on carbs. Much
less parts do disassemble, no moving parts at all, except, of course,
the throttle body. As your car is older, I assume the it is not "fly
by wire" and does have a cable linking the throttle pedal to the
throttle body, so that's one less thing to go wrong.

Removing the injectors is not hard. Once, I neglected a very small oil
leak on the valve cover. The oil leaked right into the third injector.
When I removed it, it was completely coated with solidified oil. I
just removed the injector, sprayed with a lot of carb cleaner and put
it back: car worked perfectly after.

Also, I found that bad gasoline also produces weird bad behaviors,
actually, since last week my car died every time I stepped on clutch
(mine is manual, the best transmission type!). I filled tank last
night with premium gasoline and this morning it idled smoother and did
not die.

I found service manuals in spanish and in portuguese using eMule. I am
sure that you, with your knowledge of the internet underground will
find a service manual in english much easier than I did. BTW, I could
not find a Bosch service manual, but I could find a Magnetti Marelli
FI manual. My car has Bosch, but I could follow the Magnetti manual
just fine, the only difference was the shape of the parts, even the
location of the parts were the same.

Good luck!

-- Tiago
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

On Feb 27, 6:28 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 10:47 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I ask here because you guys know everything.
>
> Bev,
>
> There are sensors on the throttle body (throttle position sensor), on
> the intake manifold (MAP sensor) and on the exhaust (lambda sensor).
> If you remove any of those, one at a time, the engine will still run
> on the FI computer's default. If it runs better with the sensor
> unplugged, then, that's the problem, replace sensor, problem solved.
>
> Also, I found working on FI much easier than working on carbs. Much
> less parts do disassemble, no moving parts at all, except, of course,
> the throttle body. As your car is older, I assume the it is not "fly
> by wire" and does have a cable linking the throttle pedal to the
> throttle body, so that's one less thing to go wrong.
>
> Removing the injectors is not hard. Once, I neglected a very small oil
> leak on the valve cover. The oil leaked right into the third injector.
> When I removed it, it was completely coated with solidified oil. I
> just removed the injector, sprayed with a lot of carb cleaner and put
> it back: car worked perfectly after.
>
> Also, I found that bad gasoline also produces weird bad behaviors,
> actually, since last week my car died every time I stepped on clutch
> (mine is manual, the best transmission type!). I filled tank last
> night with premium gasoline and this morning it idled smoother and did
> not die.
>
> I found service manuals in spanish and in portuguese using eMule. I am
> sure that you, with your knowledge of the internet underground will
> find a service manual in english much easier than I did. BTW, I could
> not find a Bosch service manual, but I could find a Magnetti Marelli
> FI manual. My car has Bosch, but I could follow the Magnetti manual
> just fine, the only difference was the shape of the parts, even the
> location of the parts were the same.
>
> Good luck!
>
> -- Tiago

A previous poster suggested the fuel filter.. I had thought of that,
but it opens a whole new can of worms. If you have fuel pressure
problems and the filter is good, you could have a problem in the fuel
tank. It's been a long time but I think the pump is in the tank on
those old GM's and there is a filter sock on the pump that can and
many times gets clogged. You have to drop the tank to change it, can
be a real problem for the homebased mechanic.

While I am typing I will turn you on to a little trick I leaned at FI
school.
The O2 sensor is a "differentiator" (spelling??). In this case a
"battery" for lack of a better term. It senses the difference in
Oxygen inside as compared to outside of the tail pipe/exhaust. A rich
mixture with a good burn will decrease the O2 in the exhaust. The more
difference between outside and inside concentration, the more
electical currant the O2 sensor will produce. When the computer sees a
high voltage from the O2, it will assume the mix is rich and adjust.
The O2 sensor generally produces between 0-1.2 volts or so... We can
use this to check several systems within the fuel delivery system,
especially on fuel injected vehicles. Here is how you do it:
Unplug the connector from the end of the wire closest to the O2
sensor. Careful, if you break the connector, you are screwed. Anyway
jump the wire to a standard 1.2 volt flashlight battery, and while the
car is running, touch the other end of the battery to the cars frame,
we used the air filter bolt as it sticks up nicely and can easlily be
accessed. The idea is to send 1.2 volts to the computer from the 'O2"
sensor lead. This will tell the computer that the fuel mixture is
running very rich and if the sensors, computer, and injection system
is functioning properly, it should starve the car for fuel and stall
it out... This is not foolproof, but it is a good indicator that your
system, at least that part of it, is functioning properly.. Testing
the O2 sensor it self is a little more complicated. The changes happen
very quickly and is best seen with an occilliscope.

Phew, alllll that being said, I would still be looking at fuel
treatment, plug wires, and throttle positition sensor (another one
more easliy checked with a scope than a meter, analog or digital)..

Later guys, ride hard, stay upright.. .
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

> I've never had anything but carburetors before.  Is this likely to be a
> fuel-injector problem?  Is there some magic stuff I can pour into my
> gastank that will solve the problem?

In the gas tank? Yes there is.

My old Corolla used to do the same thing. It would shudder violently
when I took off - I thought that the clutch was toasted. Turns out it
was just dirty injectors.

Go to WalMart when your tank just about empty. Buy 2 bottles of high-
potency injector cleaner - make sure it says "cleans in one tank" on
the bottle. Put one bottle in your tank in the parking lot, then
drive 5 miles or so (to the gas station) - gives it a good starting
boost. Dump in the other can and fill up. If it's injectors, the
problem should go away by the end of the tank.

JayC
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

CrashTestDummy wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:47:21 -0800, The Real Bev
> <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I ask here because you guys know everything.
>>
>>My 88 Caddy has started to stumble when I stomp on the gas. It's got
>>56,000 miles on it (it was my mom's car) and she had it tuned regularly,
>>except it hasn't been touched except to change the oil and filters for
>>perhaps 3 years. I'll probably pay for a tuneup when it needs to get
>>smogged in May, but I'm wondering if there's anything simple I can do now.
>>
>>I can run it up to high speeds with no problem, I just have to do it
>>slowly. Not that I'm addicted to jackrabbitism, but every once in a
>>while you DO have to pass somebody.
>>
>>I've never had anything but carburetors before. Is this likely to be a
>>fuel-injector problem? Is there some magic stuff I can pour into my
>>gastank that will solve the problem?
>
> I really like Scotty's reply. Is it safe to assume that you have no
> warning or "check engine" lights coming on?

Right. A "service engine soon" came on a while back, but I figure
that's because I haven't changed the oil for a while. The oil still
looks clean, I don't drive it on short trips and it's been less than 3K
miles since the last one maybe a year ago.

> If that's a safe
> assumption, I'd really suggest another simple test of the plug wires:
> Just find a dark place one night (away from street lights), start the
> car, pop the hood and get out and have a look-see. My '91 Chevy S-10
> (4.3 v6) was *notorious* for arcing plug wires. The replacement wires
> from Autozone, Pep Boys, Napa, etc. wouldn't last without some
> creative routing to keep them away from the manifold... and each
> other. But it's easy to spot in darkness as it looks like a fireworks
> show under your hood. In your case though, you may need someone inside
> pushing the gas peddle to get up to higher RPMs (if you can't do it
> from under the hood while at the same time looking for possible
> arcing).

Shirley you jest. I have to drive up into the mountains to get away
from street lights, and even then it's iffy!

> Like Scotty, I would suspect plug wires or fuel injection cleaner.
> Most anything else (like vacuum lines) would probably set of codes
> (they did in my S-10 and my '02 Dakota, anyway).

I should get a code reader, or whatever it is I should get. Again,
brand new technology:-(

> In fact, my Dakota
> issued a "massive vacuum leak" code last year. I searched all under
> the hood and replaced two lines that looked questionable (they had
> been rubbing on other parts). Still had the code though. So I searched
> online to see if this was common. I discovered that the smog lines on
> my Dakota run clear back to the fuel tank, so I crawled beneath the
> truck for a cursory glance, not really anticipating much.
>
> Low and behold, this 6"long, 1/2" diameter, U-shaped rubber tube
> installed between a pair of metal tubes was completely off on one end!
> The rubber was brittle and rotten, so I yanked it off and found a
> replacement at Autozone. No more "massive vacuum leak" code.

We had something similar but different for a LONG time, the final straw
being when a convertible full of happy Native Americans (Albuquerque,
not racism) pushed us up the onramp to get on the freeway. Turned out
to be a kinked hose from the gas filler tube to the tank such that it
just wouldn't feed in enough gas under high demand.

Interesting kluges for gas problems: (1) In new old monsterhome,
passenger keeps spraying starting fluid into the carb to get us up out
of an underpass. (2) In van, passenger holds 5-gallon gas can on her
lap allowing gas to flow into the carb using gravity instead of the fuel
pump.

> PS -- I was gonna just reply; "Check your points," but thought better
> of it ;-p

Don't feel too bad, I might have tried to do it. More new technology...

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================================
"To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
violation of the Voting Rights Act." -- Ann Coulter
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

justwaitafrekinminute.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:

> A previous poster suggested the fuel filter.. I had thought of that,
> but it opens a whole new can of worms. If you have fuel pressure
> problems and the filter is good, you could have a problem in the fuel
> tank. It's been a long time but I think the pump is in the tank on
> those old GM's and there is a filter sock on the pump that can and
> many times gets clogged. You have to drop the tank to change it, can
> be a real problem for the homebased mechanic.

I think I'd set the car on fire and push it over a cliff before dealing
with the gas tank. Just my opinion...

> While I am typing I will turn you on to a little trick I leaned at FI
> school.
.... <snipped but saved>
> The changes happen
> very quickly and is best seen with an occilliscope.

I'm too old for this sh*t

> Phew, alllll that being said, I would still be looking at fuel
> treatment, plug wires, and throttle positition sensor (another one
> more easliy checked with a scope than a meter, analog or digital)..

I love problems that can be solved by chemical attack.

> Later guys, ride hard, stay upright.. .

Skiing today mostly yes, except 3 times. Haven't done that for a long
time...

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================================
"To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
violation of the Voting Rights Act." -- Ann Coulter
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

On Feb 27, 7:59 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> CrashTestDummy wrote:
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:47:21 -0800, The Real Bev
> > <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>I ask here because you guys know everything.
>
> >>My 88 Caddy has started to stumble when I stomp on the gas.  It's got
> >>56,000 miles on it (it was my mom's car) and she had it tuned regularly,
> >>except it hasn't been touched except to change the oil and filters for
> >>perhaps 3 years.  I'll probably pay for a tuneup when it needs to get
> >>smogged in May, but I'm wondering if there's anything simple I can do now.
>
> >>I can run it up to high speeds with no problem, I just have to do it
> >>slowly.  Not that I'm addicted to jackrabbitism, but every once in a
> >>while you DO have to pass somebody.
>
> >>I've never had anything but carburetors before.  Is this likely to be a
> >>fuel-injector problem?  Is there some magic stuff I can pour into my
> >>gastank that will solve the problem?
>
> >    I really like Scotty's reply. Is it safe to assume that you have no
> > warning or "check engine" lights coming on?
>
> Right.  A "service engine soon" came on a while back, but I figure
> that's because I haven't changed the oil for a while.  The oil still
> looks clean, I don't drive it on short trips and it's been less than 3K
> miles since the last one maybe a year ago.
>
> > If that's a safe
> > assumption, I'd really suggest another simple test of the plug wires:
> > Just find a dark place one night (away from street lights), start the
> > car, pop the hood and get out and have a look-see. My '91 Chevy S-10
> > (4.3 v6) was *notorious* for arcing plug wires. The replacement wires
> > from Autozone, Pep Boys, Napa, etc. wouldn't last without some
> > creative routing to keep them away from the manifold... and each
> > other. But it's easy to spot in darkness as it looks like a fireworks
> > show under your hood. In your case though, you may need someone inside
> > pushing the gas peddle to get up to higher RPMs (if you can't do it
> > from under the hood while at the same time looking for possible
> > arcing).
>
> Shirley you jest.  I have to drive up into the mountains to get away
> from street lights, and even then it's iffy!
>
> >    Like Scotty, I would suspect plug wires or fuel injection cleaner..
> > Most anything else (like vacuum lines) would probably set of codes
> > (they did in my S-10 and my '02 Dakota, anyway).
>
> I should get a code reader, or whatever it is I should get.  Again,
> brand new technology:-(
>
> > In fact, my Dakota
> > issued a "massive vacuum leak" code last year. I searched all under
> > the hood and replaced two lines that looked questionable (they had
> > been rubbing on other parts). Still had the code though. So I searched
> > online to see if this was common. I discovered that the smog lines on
> > my Dakota run clear back to the fuel tank, so I crawled beneath the
> > truck for a cursory glance, not really anticipating much.
>
> >    Low and behold, this 6"long, 1/2" diameter, U-shaped rubber tube
> > installed between a pair of metal tubes was completely off on one end!
> > The rubber was brittle and rotten, so I yanked it off and found a
> > replacement at Autozone. No more "massive vacuum leak" code.
>
> We had something similar but different for a LONG time, the final straw
> being when a convertible full of happy Native Americans (Albuquerque,
> not racism) pushed us up the onramp to get on the freeway.  Turned out
> to be a kinked hose from the gas filler tube to the tank such that it
> just wouldn't feed in enough gas under high demand.
>
> Interesting kluges for gas problems:  (1) In new old monsterhome,
> passenger keeps spraying starting fluid into the carb to get us up out
> of an underpass.  (2) In van, passenger holds 5-gallon gas can on her
> lap allowing gas to flow into the carb using gravity instead of the fuel
> pump.
>
> > PS -- I was gonna just reply; "Check your points," but thought better
> > of it ;-p
>
> Don't feel too bad, I might have tried to do it.  More new technology...
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> ============================================================
> "To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
>   violation of the Voting Rights Act."         -- Ann Coulter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Personally, I would not buy a code reader. Use a paperclip to jump the
harness, iirc it's the two right hand terminals on a connector,
probably right under the dash somewhere. Key on engine off, jump the
connector, and note the two digit code, the car should repeat it a
total of three times.. For instance, 4 flashes of the check engine
light followed by a pause, then 5 pulses of the light would be a code
45.. and so on.

I should note that I am very new to this group, that seems to be very
on topic. if I am causing a problem here, you all let me know and I
can take this off list... at least on my end.

Scotty
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

justwaitafrekinminute RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 27, 7:59 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > PS -- I was gonna just reply; "Check your points," but thought better
>> > of it ;-p
>>
>> Don't feel too bad, I might have tried to do it. More new technology...
>
> Personally, I would not buy a code reader. Use a paperclip to jump the
> harness, iirc it's the two right hand terminals on a connector,
> probably right under the dash somewhere. Key on engine off, jump the
> connector, and note the two digit code, the car should repeat it a
> total of three times.. For instance, 4 flashes of the check engine
> light followed by a pause, then 5 pulses of the light would be a code
> 45.. and so on.

More stuff to save. Will google find the meaning of the codes?

> I should note that I am very new to this group, that seems to be very
> on topic. if I am causing a problem here, you all let me know and I
> can take this off list... at least on my end.

I haven't heard any complaints, have you? People who scream about
off-topicality don't have enough REAL stuff to scream about

--
Cheers, Bev
============================================================
"To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
violation of the Voting Rights Act." -- Ann Coulter
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:59:42 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>CrashTestDummy wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:47:21 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I really like Scotty's reply. Is it safe to assume that you have no
>> warning or "check engine" lights coming on?
>
>Right. A "service engine soon" came on a while back, but I figure
>that's because I haven't changed the oil for a while.
>
>I should get a code reader, or whatever it is I should get. Again,
>brand new technology:-(

Don't bother unless you just want one for convenience. Any Autozone
(and probably several other parts houses) will pull the codes for you
gratis (assuming you can drive it there). The biggest problem with
automotive computer codes is that they're seldom clear cut. On my S-10
I had a vague "O2 sensor" code that prompted me to buy *two* new O2
sensors, only to eventually discover that my spark plugs were bad.
Btw, you might check your plugs too when you get a chance. ;->

[on checking plug wires in darkness]:
>Shirley you jest. I have to drive up into the mountains to get away
>from street lights, and even then it's iffy!

It doesn't have to be pitch black, it's just that the darker it is
the easier it is to identify arcing. If my carport motion light is
unscrewed it's plenty dark enough in my drive to check for arcing at
night. It's far more difficult to observe during the day.

I really think you're ahead of the game if no codes are present. On
my S-10 the throttle position sensor (TPS) was wired into the computer
and was designed to trip a code if bad (I know because I got *that*
code too and replaced the TPS along with the aforementioned O2
sensor). I'm not saying the computer will catch everything, of course,
just that I'd try the things it's less likely to detect first.
Hopefully your fuel injector cleaner is indeed the solution.


Fred Bradford - CrashTestDummy
fjbradfordREMOVE.TakeThisOut@tx.rr.com
 >> Stay informed about: Fuel injection?