Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd

PeteJC wrote:
> "PeteJC" wrote:
> > My 1975 XL175 is difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd unless I
> > really shift early after getting started in 1st. All other
> > gears shift just fine. Is this a major problem in the making
> > or is this correctable with a minor adjustment?
>
> As long as I shift from 1st to 2nd at fairly low speed and low RPM it
> does fine.

Do you mean that the shifter lever is hard to move from first through
neutral into second gear, or that
the transmission makes a loud clunky sound when you try to shift at
higher RPM?

This is more typical of larger displacement motorbikes, usually 750cc
and up.

There is the possibility your clutch isn't disengaging enough, so check
the cable slack at the lever for excess slack and the angularity of any
throwout lever down on the clutch cover for less than the optimum arc
of travel. There are often alignment punch marks on the throwout lever
and the shaft they are clamped to.

Also, check your shifter pedal to make sure that it is clamped to the
shifter shafter in the best position for your particular shoe size so
you get enough movement of the pedal.

The above is important because of the way a motorbike transmission
shifts gears. There is a ratcheting device turning a cylindrical
shifter drum inside the engine. The ratcheting device will grab one of
6 or 7 equally spaced steel pins in the shifter drum.

But your transmission probably has neutral between first and second
gears. So the shifter drum has to be rotated further to shift from
first to second. Your foot has to move further shifting from frist to
second than it has to move shifting from second to third, etc.

So, if it's not a clutch adjustment problem, it's likely to be a rider
problem. Maybe you're not moving the lever far enough.

Clutches are cantankerous devices anyway. Clutches have been described
as a mechanical device that is never fully engaged or fully disengaged.

IOW, a clutch seems to always slip when you want to put a lot of power
through it, or it seems to drag when you wish it was fully released.

You might try using a synthetic oil instead of mineral oil to make your
clutch plates disengage better.
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

Thanks for your input. My tranny is 1 down Neutral and 4 up. When I 1st got my 74 XL175 running after 21 years I rode it very gently. I wanted to get my cycle bearings back before I rode more agressively. All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That's when the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don't think it's op error unless it's because I wasn't shifting soon enough. If that's the case it's fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it doesn't really make a crunch or grind noise. It's more like a bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won't quite mesh and is just riding on top of a gear.

I think I'll just keep shifting into 2nd early. My neutral indicator light also does not work. I don't think that's a symptom of the problem.

Thanks again!
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

PeteJC wrote:

> All the shifting went fine, 1st through 5th. Once I got my confidence
> up I started winding higher before shifting each gear. That's when
> the shift from 1st to 2nd started staying in neutral. I don't think
> it's op error unless it's because I wasn't shifting soon enough. If
> that's the case it's fixed. When I shift later (higher RPM/Speed) it
> doesn't really make a crunch or grind noise. It's more like a
> bumping/ticking feel on my foot like it just won't quite mesh and is
> just riding on top of a gear.

The teeth on all the gears in a motorcycle transmission are always in
mesh. Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts. Each free-wheeling gear
has three or four protrusions on the side of the gear. They are called
"dogs". The male dogs slide into female slots on the side of the pinion
gears which are attached to the transmission shafts. If anything is
grinding, it's the dogs grinding against the gears that they are
supposed to slot into. Some older British motorcycles would grind the
dogs if you tried to shift gears at any engine speed except idle.

Two possible problems come to mind. The first is that one of the
shifter forks that follow the cylinder shifter drum might be bent
slightly from somebody kicking at the shift lever too hard. The other
possibility is that steel circlips that locate some of gears have
gotten old and have loosened up and that the gears are no longer
located accurately on their shafts.

Those gears then move away from the gear that's being pushed toward
them.

I actuallt ran into that problem once on a Yamaha that I was
rebuilding. The circlips on the transmission shafts were loosening up,
but I didn't see any reason to replace them. The transmission wouldn't
shift into 5th gear, so I had to take the engine apart again.
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

CK wrote:
> Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
> free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts.


The free-wheeling gears are all in a fixed location. The splined gears are slid into the
free-wheeling gears to lock them to their respective shafts.
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

> CK wrote:
>> Shifting is accomplished by sliding the
>> free-wheeling gears *sideways* on their shafts.
>
>
> The free-wheeling gears are all in a fixed location. The splined gears are
> slid into the free-wheeling gears to lock them to their respective shafts.

Have you ever done any power shifting on the bike? If you are like at
least some of us here, the answer would be a big yes, and I am leaning
towards a bent shifting fork. This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.

Fwed
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

fweddybear <fweddybear.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:

> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.

*What* clutch fluid?


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 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

>> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
>> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
>
> *What* clutch fluid?

Most times, I don't see the complete post as some people do not include
previous posts in with their reply, as in my case. So , with that said, and
not seeing the post from the beginning, and also not knowing what bike he is
referring to, I suggested a couple of things to check, knowing that one or
more might not apply....

Fwed
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd 

Go to the beginning of the thread helps
Lushy fro AU
"fweddybear" <fweddybear DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote in message
news:x8Btf.38566$QW2.33486@dukeread08...
>>> This is assuming your clutch is adjusted
>>> properly and you have the proper amount of clutch fluid.
>>
>> *What* clutch fluid?
>
> Most times, I don't see the complete post as some people do not include
> previous posts in with their reply, as in my case. So , with that said,
> and not seeing the post from the beginning, and also not knowing what bike
> he is referring to, I suggested a couple of things to check, knowing that
> one or more might not apply....
>
> Fwed
>
 >> Stay informed about: Difficult shift from 1st to 2nd