Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half...

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, dlevy wrote:

 > Yamaha has the most brilliant marketing/engineering people on the planet.

Harley Davidson gets that honor. They've got people lining up in droves to
purchase their bikes, clothing, gear and plenty of other crap with the HD
logo on it. Genius.

Craig<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

Next year's YZ125 will be 3.8 lbs. lighter.

James
00CR250

"dlevy" <dlevy.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote...
 > Yamaha has the most brilliant marketing/engineering people on the planet.
 > They started the four stroke crap. They started the 250F crap. Now they
 > introduced the aluminum framed YZ's and I'm foaming at the mouth for one of
 > those 125's.
 >
 > "TSMaxel" <tsmaxel.RemoveThis@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
 > news:20040729221832.20025.00000488@mb-m25.aol.com...
  > > Anyone seeing a trend of riders that have had 4 stroke bikes over the past
 > few
  > > years, going back to 2s? Last night my son did the local county fair race
 > and
  > > we met up with many racers we hadn't seen in a few years. The buzz was
 > people
  > > ditching their 4s for 2s. There really did seem to be more 2 strokers on
 > the
  > > line.
  > >
  > > My son wants a 125 to race Schoolboy... I asked him if I found a 250f for
 > a
  > > good price, would he consider it? I know of two "kids" that have blown up
  > > 250fs that I could get cheap and have rebuilt. His comment was he would
 > rather
  > > just stay on the 250 than get on a 4 stroker.
  > >
  > > Anyone seeing any trends? Oh, and let's not get into what the Pros are
  > > riding... Sure the factories are going to get their riders on 4 stroke
 > bikes.
  > > That is what they want to sell. I applaud BS for staying with his 125!
 > Hey,
  > > maybe he doesn't get the holeshot like he is used to, but it hasn't
 > effected
  > > his finishes!
  > >
  > > TMax<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

Hi TMax!

On 30 Jul 2004 02:18:32 GMT, tsmaxel DeleteThis @aol.comnospam (TSMaxel) wrote :
 >My son wants a 125 to race Schoolboy... I asked him if I found a 250f for a
 >good price, would he consider it? I know of two "kids" that have blown up
 >250fs that I could get cheap and have rebuilt. His comment was he would rather
 >just stay on the 250 than get on a 4 stroker.

Well, that says it all. Would you want to force your son into taking the
4s? Left aside that, I consider it a very sensible alternative for
anybody who doesn't race his bike 99% and therefore not needs the extra
kick and the lower weight of a 2s and trades it for broader and more
linear power delivery curve of a 4s.

If you're not in perfect shape and don't have to use the bike to earn
your living but just for fun, the 4s won't wear you out as fast if the
race/enduro goes on and then you can still pull decent lap times. IMHO.

I was riding CR250R for years (even CR500 - but that's a different
story...) and at one point found out, that I liked my friends KTM 540
EXC better than my 2s. Compared to the YZ426 I ride now, the KTM was an
iron pig and heavy as hell.

Moral: Real engines have valves!

But that's getting into kinda metaphysic discussion...

Cheers,

Volker

P.S.: Did your son compare? Let him decide himself. I guess, there are
quite some 4s in his displacement class out there...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

"Volker Bartheld (SPAM only)" <dr_versaeg.DeleteThis@freenet.de> wrote...
 > Hi TMax!
 >
 > On 30 Jul 2004 02:18:32 GMT, tsmaxel.DeleteThis@aol.comnospam (TSMaxel) wrote :
  > >My son wants a 125 to race Schoolboy... I asked him if I found a 250f for a
  > >good price, would he consider it? I know of two "kids" that have blown up
  > >250fs that I could get cheap and have rebuilt. His comment was he would rather
  > >just stay on the 250 than get on a 4 stroker.
 >
 > Well, that says it all. Would you want to force your son into taking the
 > 4s? Left aside that, I consider it a very sensible alternative for
 > anybody who doesn't race his bike 99% and therefore not needs the extra
 > kick and the lower weight of a 2s and trades it for broader and more
 > linear power delivery curve of a 4s.

The best way to describe the decision is, Snap or traction? A two
stroke has far more snap than a four stroke could ever achieve, giving
it instant acceleration. Those who tell you otherwise are lying or
have not ridden a two stroke in some time. A four stroke's lack of
snap/linear power delivery means it finds traction easier and pulls
much longer. Whether one is more tiring than the other depends on the
terrain and/or track. Four strokes can have a huge advantage in terms
of rider fatigue, however, under certain conditions.

If your kid likes two strokes, I would not make him switch.

Also, your statement "get cheap and *have* [my emphasis] rebuilt"
indicates you do not have the time or skills to rebuild a four stroke
yourself. Assuming you can do this work on the much simpler two
stroke, as most of us over 14 can, I'd think that is another vote for
the smoker.

Don't get me wrong. Four strokes are wonderful machines. Personally, I
think a 250 two stroke is more versatile for the places I ride, but if
I didn't ride such a wide range of woods and only did motocross, I
almost certainly would have a YZ450F as an only bike.

James
00CR250<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

 >
 >P.S.: Did your son compare? Let him decide himself. I guess, there are
 >quite some 4s in his displacement class out there...
 >

He has riden a YZ450f, he likes his YZ250 better. I suggested a YZ250f, he
says he would rather have a YZ 125, ot just stick with the 250 class then to
ride a 4 stroker. That is his opinion and I am not going to force him. I
really don't care for the 4 strokers either.

A boy down the street (paid too much) bought a 2002 YZ125 and blew it up just a
month after he bought it. I have told him that I would help him rebuild the
bike, and buy the parts, as long as he lets Ty race it for a season.

It is just after talking with some of the people at the race this past week,
some of the racers in this area are going back to 250s from 450s. I thought
that was interesting and was wondering if anyone else is seeing this?

TMax<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

Closer to ten according to everything I've read. Cycle News has already
tested it....... smokin!

"James" <midwestmotocross DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2f72c3f.0407301047.68d7ec1d@posting.google.com...
 > Next year's YZ125 will be 3.8 lbs. lighter.
 >
 > James
 > 00CR250
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

On 30 Jul 2004 02:18:32 GMT, tsmaxel.TakeThisOut@aol.comnospam (TSMaxel) spewed
forth:

 >Anyone seeing any trends? Oh, and let's not get into what the Pros are
 >riding... Sure the factories are going to get their riders on 4 stroke bikes.
 > That is what they want to sell. I applaud BS for staying with his 125! Hey,
 >maybe he doesn't get the holeshot like he is used to, but it hasn't effected
 >his finishes!

No, but it looks like he has to work harder than the 4 stroke guys.


MX Tuner<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:07:35 -0400, Craig Faison <cfaison DeleteThis @magpage.com>
spewed forth:

 >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, dlevy wrote:
 >
  >> Yamaha has the most brilliant marketing/engineering people on the planet.
 >
 >Harley Davidson gets that honor. They've got people lining up in droves to
 >purchase their bikes, clothing, gear and plenty of other crap with the HD
 >logo on it. Genius.

No, Harley gets the nod for marketing but sure as hell NOT
engineering.


MX Tuner<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

Let me know when the pendulum has swung back to 2S, and I'll
switch back to 4S.

Antifad.

-Jeff Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:26:32 -0400, MX Tuner wrote:

 >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 11:07:35 -0400, Craig Faison <cfaison DeleteThis @magpage.com>
 >spewed forth:
 >
  >>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, dlevy wrote:
  >>
   >>> Yamaha has the most brilliant marketing/engineering people on the planet.
  >>
  >>Harley Davidson gets that honor. They've got people lining up in droves to
  >>purchase their bikes, clothing, gear and plenty of other crap with the HD
  >>logo on it. Genius.
 >
 >No, Harley gets the nod for marketing but sure as hell NOT
 >engineering.

Waddaya mean? There must be something to that V-twin design, you
can't even buy a cruiser bike of *ANY* brand without that design. The
wanna be's on the street amaze me, any bullet bike with a 600cc strait
4 will whoop ass on a 1200cc V- twin, and run smoother, yet you can't
get a strait 4 cruiser bike any more because they all wanna be on
chopper looking bikes that sound like a HD.
Oh well, at least they keep the cow hide buisness alive.

Loud pipes save lives.
Helmets suck, etc, etc, yada, yada.

MurMan
 >
 >
 >MX Tuner<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

 >
 >No, but it looks like he has to work harder than the 4 stroke guys.
 >

For the starts, I agree... But, what about the rest of the race?

TMax<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

 >On 30 Jul 2004 11:02:48 -0700, midwestmotocross DeleteThis @yahoo.com (James) wrote:

 >The best way to describe the decision is, Snap or traction?

 >A two
 >stroke has far more snap than a four stroke could ever achieve, giving
 >it instant acceleration. Those who tell you otherwise are lying or
 >have not ridden a two stroke in some time. A four stroke's lack of
 >snap/linear power delivery means it finds traction easier and pulls
 >much longer. Whether one is more tiring than the other depends on the
 >terrain and/or track. Four strokes can have a huge advantage in terms
 >of rider fatigue, however, under certain conditions.
<snip>
 >
 >James
 >00CR250



Or, with a GasGas EC300, you can have both.
Free Demo rides on the Idaho fishing trip.




Jim Cook
'04 Gas Gas EC300 (& '03 FSE400) Woods Pilot
Team LAGNAF
SMACKOVER RACING
BJEC/SERA/TSCEC/AHSCS
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.smackovermotorsports.com" target="_blank">www.smackovermotorsports.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half... 

I couldn't disagree more, why is it the 4 strokes always get the hole
shot? I think you need to ride my crf450, it has insn't snap, it can be
a pain in the but sometimes, where a 2 stroke has to wind up a bit.
Coming back from a 40 mile hell ride, we had the crf450, crf250r,
crf230, cr500, cr125 they all did well as far as traction, cluth work
and rider ability is were it's at!

Just a different opinion!

Joe

Wudsracer wrote:
  >>On 30 Jul 2004 11:02:48 -0700, midwestmotocross.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (James) wrote:
 >
 >
  >>The best way to describe the decision is, Snap or traction?
 >
 >
  >>A two
  >>stroke has far more snap than a four stroke could ever achieve, giving
  >>it instant acceleration. Those who tell you otherwise are lying or
  >>have not ridden a two stroke in some time. A four stroke's lack of
  >>snap/linear power delivery means it finds traction easier and pulls
  >>much longer. Whether one is more tiring than the other depends on the
  >>terrain and/or track. Four strokes can have a huge advantage in terms
  >>of rider fatigue, however, under certain conditions.
 >
 > <snip>
 >
  >>James
  >>00CR250
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Or, with a GasGas EC300, you can have both.
 > Free Demo rides on the Idaho fishing trip.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Jim Cook
 > '04 Gas Gas EC300 (& '03 FSE400) Woods Pilot
 > Team LAGNAF
 > SMACKOVER RACING
 > BJEC/SERA/TSCEC/AHSCS
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.smackovermotorsports.com</font" target="_blank">www.smackovermotorsports.com</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Coming home... Cutting the strokes in half...