Cold tires = no grip

Phil, Squid-in-Training <phil_leeIHEARTBASHGUARDS.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was mid-50's
> tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires actually warm up

Mid-50's - that ain't cold. But cool enough to notice a loss of traction.

> even with all the convection and conduction happening?
>
> At least I'll be riding this winter

Well, I slow down a bit in the winter. Not as much as I do when it is
raining, but you need to watch the lean angles there. You can enjoy sliding
the bike around in turns at lower speeds, which is a kinda fun way to get used
to such things.

Tire selection can make a big difference. The OEM Battlax BT-57s on my
previous bike didn't have much grip to begin with - but they handled fairly
well in the freezing temps. I found the Dunlop D208 tires to be predictable
and handle fairly well in the cold. The Sportec M-1 tires seemed very slick
in the cold. I have been very surprised, and happy, to see the Diablo
Pirelli tires handle very well in the freezing temps. They must use some
type of magic rubber because they are wearing very well, have plenty of
traction in the summer, and still hold on in the winter. I hear the
BT-014 tires are good in the cold too - I'm going to try them next.

- Kurt
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> I noticed this tonight on a short stint to a study group. Skidded the rear
> slowly coming to a stop at a light and wasn't even noticing until the back
> end started off to the side. Whoops. A couple days ago, I locked up the
> front while braking. It was warmer weather (65F), and it had just started
> raining (yes, oil slicks rising etc.) but still. I pull rolling stoppies on
> my MTB all the time and have found it hard just to get the front to skid on
> those.
>
> I started using the rear more and am trying to gauge the kind of tire
> traction motos have compared to what I'm used to on pedal-bikes. So far
> it's looking pretty dismal (even in cold weather), although that should be
> expected for two vehicles with such a weight difference. Gonna try to get
> the right foot into the habit of taking action all the time.
>
> What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was mid-50's
> tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires actually warm up
> even with all the convection and conduction happening?
>
> At least I'll be riding this winter
>


Whatcha riding again Tom?
I rarely use the rear brake.

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

Andrew wrote:
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> > I noticed this tonight on a short stint to a study group. Skidded the rear
> > slowly coming to a stop at a light and wasn't even noticing until the back
> > end started off to the side. Whoops. A couple days ago, I locked up the
> > front while braking. It was warmer weather (65F), and it had just started
> > raining (yes, oil slicks rising etc.) but still. I pull rolling stoppies on
> > my MTB all the time and have found it hard just to get the front to skid on
> > those.
> >
> > I started using the rear more and am trying to gauge the kind of tire
> > traction motos have compared to what I'm used to on pedal-bikes. So far
> > it's looking pretty dismal (even in cold weather), although that should be
> > expected for two vehicles with such a weight difference. Gonna try to get
> > the right foot into the habit of taking action all the time.
> >
> > What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was mid-50's
> > tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires actually warm up
> > even with all the convection and conduction happening?
> >
> > At least I'll be riding this winter
> >
>
>
> Whatcha riding again Tom?
> I rarely use the rear brake.
>
> --
> Andrew
> 00 Daytona
> 00 Speed Triple
> 71 Kawi H1
> 05 Infant

Then maybe you should learn to use the rear brake. It can be very
useful when the traction is so poor that you don't get much weight
transfer.

I see you have an H1, with drum brakes front and rear. You might also
want to learn how to stop by dragging your feet

Bruce
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

on 12/7/05 1:26 AM, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

> What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was mid-50's
> tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires actually warm up
> even with all the convection and conduction happening?

I concur with all the other good advice: take it a bit easier than usual,
get good at smooth, progressive, and quick application of the front brake. I
do use the rear brake, but not as a power stopper. Certainly it's useful in
limited traction situations.

Speaking of which, I went for an afternoon ride earlier this week, when
temps were hovering near 40F and there were still plenty of damp bits of
less traveled pavement. I managed to break traction on both ends of the bike
that afternoon.

I was surprised by a speeding SUV crossing my path in a congested parking
lot and grabbed the front brake a little too quickly at 15 mph. Locked it up
ever-so-briefly, but had no real drama. I just released and regained the
brakes to complete my quick stop as the SUV driver did her own panic stop
from 25 mph to zero, ending up directly in my path. Then she sat there
looking at me. I'm sure she thought she was being apologetically polite by
allowing me to go ahead, but the gesture lost some significance with her
vehicle completely blocking my path. Go ahead, Dippy. No really, I insist.

Then a few hours later I was turning left from a side street and as I
straightened the bike up I give it a good twist of the throttle, just for
fun, and I got a little more excitement than I wanted when the rear spun up
and started fishtailing a little further to the right. I relaxed my throttle
hand a little, and the rear tire gently hooked up again. I felt like a lucky
dummy. I knew the tires were really cold (they'd been sitting still for an
hour), and I knew the road was cold AND wet, and I just let my exuberance
get in the way of good judgment.

Luckily nothing truly bad happened in either instance, but it does
illustrate how easy things can go sideways if you're lacking focus on doing
it right. I'll try to do better after this reminder.

--
Jamin Kortegard
popular sportbike / popular car

"Hokey 600s and trackday usability are no match
for a good literbike at your side, kid."
- Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:35:30 +0100, Stephan Rose
<ker-spam-mos.RemoveThis@kermos-no-spam-reversed.net> wrote:


>Careful with that right foot...it can get ya into a lot lot lot of
>trouble....

Not with the rear brakes on a Triumph. I think the disc is cut out of
an old grilled cheese sandwich.
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

"Greek Shipping Magnets" <an.ass.is.RemoveThis@x.x> wrote in message
news:krigp15n48kgt3vaf84mgvog7cc9qt19ol@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:35:30 +0100, Stephan Rose
> <ker-spam-mos.RemoveThis@kermos-no-spam-reversed.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Careful with that right foot...it can get ya into a lot lot lot of
>>trouble....
>
> Not with the rear brakes on a Triumph. I think the disc is cut out of
> an old grilled cheese sandwich.

Would that be the one that had a likeness of Jesus on it? Cool!

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

bsr3997.RemoveThis@my-deja.com wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
>> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>>> I noticed this tonight on a short stint to a study group. Skidded the rear
>>> slowly coming to a stop at a light and wasn't even noticing until the back
>>> end started off to the side. Whoops. A couple days ago, I locked up the
>>> front while braking. It was warmer weather (65F), and it had just started
>>> raining (yes, oil slicks rising etc.) but still. I pull rolling stoppies on
>>> my MTB all the time and have found it hard just to get the front to skid on
>>> those.
>>>
>>> I started using the rear more and am trying to gauge the kind of tire
>>> traction motos have compared to what I'm used to on pedal-bikes. So far
>>> it's looking pretty dismal (even in cold weather), although that should be
>>> expected for two vehicles with such a weight difference. Gonna try to get
>>> the right foot into the habit of taking action all the time.
>>>
>>> What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was mid-50's
>>> tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires actually warm up
>>> even with all the convection and conduction happening?
>>>
>>> At least I'll be riding this winter
>>>
>>
>> Whatcha riding again Tom?
>> I rarely use the rear brake.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> 00 Daytona
>> 00 Speed Triple
>> 71 Kawi H1
>> 05 Infant
>
> Then maybe you should learn to use the rear brake. It can be very
> useful when the traction is so poor that you don't get much weight
> transfer.
>
> I see you have an H1, with drum brakes front and rear. You might also
> want to learn how to stop by dragging your feet
>
> Bruce
>

Hi Bruce!

My H1 is a '71, it has twin disks up front!

Somehow I don't think it will make much of a difference though.

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 16:54:40 -0800, "P.Roehling"
<Pete.Roehling DeleteThis @CUTOUTeee.org> wrote:


>Would that be the one that had a likeness of Jesus on it? Cool!

Jesus built my hot rod.
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

"Greek Shipping Magnets" <an.ass.is.DeleteThis@x.x> wrote in message
news:tp9jp1p9ks79kfd7gob7n14bt4chjeldkr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 16:54:40 -0800, "P.Roehling"
> <Pete.Roehling.DeleteThis@CUTOUTeee.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Would that be the one that had a likeness of Jesus on it? Cool!
>
> Jesus built my hot rod.

According to the Christian mythos, Jesus built *everybody's* hotrod! (Or at
least he had a hand in it!)

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip 

CK wrote:
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>
>> What kind of guidelines do you guys follow in the cold (it was
>> mid-50's tonight)? Ultra-conservative all the time? Do the tires
>> actually warm up even with all the convection and conduction
>> happening?
>
> I remember going out to the Rock Store to socialize on a cold wintry
> day. I noticed I didn't have much traction on my slightly used race
> track takeoffs. I was "cooling it".
>
> But a young squid on on a more beaten-up looking bike of the same
> model I was riding
> didn't cool it. He crashed in a turn and an SUV ran over his machine.
> Good gawd! The truck sheared the whole front end off the aluminum
> chassis! The squid wasn't hurt, though.
>
> So, you really *should* be conservative when you're riding on public
> roads. You never know where a deadly threat is coming from and you
> can't depend upon the pavement surface to be anything but variable, so
> you'd be an idiot to commit yourself to corners where you need race
> track level traction to survive.

<snip>

Thanks for the insight. I've definitely taken my riding down to a
more-than-conservative level, allowing generous gaps between myself and the
car ahead. I also value my uncrashed fairings and checkbook, assuming every
corner is packed with sand. *shudder*

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 >> Stay informed about: Cold tires = no grip