Clutch basket repair

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:44:16 -0800 (PST), JayC <jwc DeleteThis @sysmatrix.net>
wrote:

>> Stormin Norman Racing , RR#2, P.O. Box 471, Ruffsdale, PA 15679.
>> 724-722-3630
>>
>> was modifying baskets with steel inserts.  Are there any other places
>> that do this mod?
>
>Not that I've heard of. Incidentally, I filed the grooves out of the
>basket on my GasGas and it pretty much completely eliminated the
>clutch drag, that the bike apparently had forever.
>
>How much is it? A new steel-fingered CR after-market basket is an
>option - probably around $200. I'd file it, then get a new one if it
>started dragging again.
>
>JayC


I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging. I
plan on trying a couple Honda CR fiber plates to see if it fixes the
problem. It doesn't bother me, but my friend Pete is willing to pay
for the repair because it drives him nuts and riding my old GasGas is
way cheaper than buying a bike at this time.

Mike Baxter
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging.

warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?

-- Tiago
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Feb 1, 7:41 am, Wudsracer <dirtbike_smackoverRem....RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> *************************************
>
> >On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:01:11 -0800 (PST), Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> I did file it about 2 years ago.  It did nothing to fix dragging.
>
> >warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>
> >-- Tiago
>
> **************************************
>
> Tiago,
>   The GasGas clutch drag tendency stems from having closer tolerances
> in the clutch stack, with 7 steel plates and 8 fiber plates in the
> clutch pack, instead of like the Japanese offerings with 6/7 plates in
> the stack. They are thinner and generally have less freeplay to
> accommodate the light pull hydraulic clutch.
>   One must bleed the hydraulic system about once per month and replace
> the oil at least every six months to have optimum feel and reduce drag
> to absolute minimum.  Even then, the clutch will drag enough to
> diminish rpms just a bit when idling in gear with the clutch pulled
> in. Maybe not enough to cause a stall during extended idling, but it
> makes a difference in idle speed and when trying to start in gear
> (with the clutch lever pulled in).
>
> Mike,
>    Try the Amsoil 0w40 synthetic 4-stroke engine oil.  I've been
> testing it (every weekend) since before Christmas.  The last four
> weekends riding have while been working trail, with lots of idling in
> gear while tying flagging on trees and figuring where to go next.
>     Once my engine warms to operating temperature, there is no clutch
> drag. (not just diminished, but none).  It is starting in gear just as
> easily as it does in neutral.
>
>   This isn't cheap oil ($9 quart), but I had to try it after reading
> Eric Kangas's oil test on GasGasRider.org.  For my test, I have been
> running the same oil for the last four weekends, gathering data on the
> oil's "wear" characteristics while watching the color and quality of
> the oil through the sight glass window in the side cover, to make sure
> it doesn't degrade enough to lose engine protection.
>
>  So far, I'm amazed with the oil. (It was a pain in the ass to get.
>  I have no local Amsoil dealer, so I bought a case from friend in
> Houston, who is set up as a dealer. Since I was ordering, and Mobil
> quit making their 2-stroke racing premix oil, I ordered a case of the
> Amsoil "Dominator" premix oil at the same time. This is their racing
> oil, not the "100/1" stuff. )
>
>   It was to be my last test before changing back from the Rekluse to
> the standard clutch set-up.    Now, I'm not so sure I'm going to
> convert back.     I have to explore this oil and the Rekluse further.
>  I'll next be putting the trials tire back on, if not this morning,
> very soon, because it changes the demands on the clutch. (It has more
> grip at very light throttle situations.)
>
>   Jack and I have been exploring getting someone to build these
> inserts for the clutch fingers.  I'll check out your link.  Thanks.
>   We picked him up at the airport yesterday.  We're going to the horse
> races today, and roosting in the mountains tomorrow.
>
> Good Riding to You!
>
> Jim
>
>          Wudsracer/Jim Cook
>           Smackover Racing
>          '06 Gas Gas DE300
>         '82 Husqvarna XC250
>            Team LAGNAF

Jim... did you ever find out if this is the WUDI Stormin' Norman? I
heard about this mod a month or so ago and asked you about it then. I
think I might like to get in to the business of doing theses mods. I'd
have to talk to my machinist friend and see if he is up for it
though.

I've also wondered if a plating/coating such as nikasil, etc work for
something like this?

I didn't know you were considering going away from the Rekluse???
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Feb 1, 6:01 am, Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging.
>
> warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>
> -- Tiago



Warped clutch plates will.

DDave
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

*************************************
>On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:01:11 -0800 (PST), Tiago Rocha <diariodastrilhas DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging.
>
>warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>
>-- Tiago
**************************************

Tiago,
The GasGas clutch drag tendency stems from having closer tolerances
in the clutch stack, with 7 steel plates and 8 fiber plates in the
clutch pack, instead of like the Japanese offerings with 6/7 plates in
the stack. They are thinner and generally have less freeplay to
accommodate the light pull hydraulic clutch.
One must bleed the hydraulic system about once per month and replace
the oil at least every six months to have optimum feel and reduce drag
to absolute minimum. Even then, the clutch will drag enough to
diminish rpms just a bit when idling in gear with the clutch pulled
in. Maybe not enough to cause a stall during extended idling, but it
makes a difference in idle speed and when trying to start in gear
(with the clutch lever pulled in).

Mike,
Try the Amsoil 0w40 synthetic 4-stroke engine oil. I've been
testing it (every weekend) since before Christmas. The last four
weekends riding have while been working trail, with lots of idling in
gear while tying flagging on trees and figuring where to go next.
Once my engine warms to operating temperature, there is no clutch
drag. (not just diminished, but none). It is starting in gear just as
easily as it does in neutral.

This isn't cheap oil ($9 quart), but I had to try it after reading
Eric Kangas's oil test on GasGasRider.org. For my test, I have been
running the same oil for the last four weekends, gathering data on the
oil's "wear" characteristics while watching the color and quality of
the oil through the sight glass window in the side cover, to make sure
it doesn't degrade enough to lose engine protection.

So far, I'm amazed with the oil. (It was a pain in the ass to get.
I have no local Amsoil dealer, so I bought a case from friend in
Houston, who is set up as a dealer. Since I was ordering, and Mobil
quit making their 2-stroke racing premix oil, I ordered a case of the
Amsoil "Dominator" premix oil at the same time. This is their racing
oil, not the "100/1" stuff. )

It was to be my last test before changing back from the Rekluse to
the standard clutch set-up. Now, I'm not so sure I'm going to
convert back. I have to explore this oil and the Rekluse further.
I'll next be putting the trials tire back on, if not this morning,
very soon, because it changes the demands on the clutch. (It has more
grip at very light throttle situations.)

Jack and I have been exploring getting someone to build these
inserts for the clutch fingers. I'll check out your link. Thanks.
We picked him up at the airport yesterday. We're going to the horse
races today, and roosting in the mountains tomorrow.

Good Riding to You!

Jim



Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:41:41 -0600, Wudsracer
<dirtbike_smackoverRemove.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>*************************************
>>On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:01:11 -0800 (PST), Tiago Rocha <diariodastrilhas.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging.
>>
>>warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>>
>>-- Tiago
>**************************************
>
>Tiago,
> The GasGas clutch drag tendency stems from having closer tolerances
>in the clutch stack, with 7 steel plates and 8 fiber plates in the
>clutch pack, instead of like the Japanese offerings with 6/7 plates in
>the stack. They are thinner and generally have less freeplay to
>accommodate the light pull hydraulic clutch.
> One must bleed the hydraulic system about once per month and replace
>the oil at least every six months to have optimum feel and reduce drag
>to absolute minimum. Even then, the clutch will drag enough to
>diminish rpms just a bit when idling in gear with the clutch pulled
>in. Maybe not enough to cause a stall during extended idling, but it
>makes a difference in idle speed and when trying to start in gear
>(with the clutch lever pulled in).
>
>Mike,
> Try the Amsoil 0w40 synthetic 4-stroke engine oil. I've been
>testing it (every weekend) since before Christmas. The last four
>weekends riding have while been working trail, with lots of idling in
>gear while tying flagging on trees and figuring where to go next.
> Once my engine warms to operating temperature, there is no clutch
>drag. (not just diminished, but none). It is starting in gear just as
>easily as it does in neutral.
>
> This isn't cheap oil ($9 quart), but I had to try it after reading
>Eric Kangas's oil test on GasGasRider.org. For my test, I have been
>running the same oil for the last four weekends, gathering data on the
>oil's "wear" characteristics while watching the color and quality of
>the oil through the sight glass window in the side cover, to make sure
>it doesn't degrade enough to lose engine protection.
>
> So far, I'm amazed with the oil. (It was a pain in the ass to get.
> I have no local Amsoil dealer, so I bought a case from friend in
>Houston, who is set up as a dealer. Since I was ordering, and Mobil
>quit making their 2-stroke racing premix oil, I ordered a case of the
>Amsoil "Dominator" premix oil at the same time. This is their racing
>oil, not the "100/1" stuff. )
>
> It was to be my last test before changing back from the Rekluse to
>the standard clutch set-up. Now, I'm not so sure I'm going to
>convert back. I have to explore this oil and the Rekluse further.
> I'll next be putting the trials tire back on, if not this morning,
>very soon, because it changes the demands on the clutch. (It has more
>grip at very light throttle situations.)
>
> Jack and I have been exploring getting someone to build these
>inserts for the clutch fingers. I'll check out your link. Thanks.
> We picked him up at the airport yesterday. We're going to the horse
>races today, and roosting in the mountains tomorrow.
>
>Good Riding to You!
>
>Jim

Jim,
My '05 has zero clutch drag. NONE! I am going to trade the
clutch stack between the '00 and '05 and see what happens. I think
that a couple Honda CR fiber plates may fix the problem as they are
slightly thinner. I have tried Mobil 1 0W-40 in the '00 and it has
less drag, but it still drags. I placed a shim between the throwout
bearing and the pressure plate to eliminate any lost throw do to slop.
Now if you keep the clutch pulled in after shutting down the
engine, you can start it in gear, no problem.

Mike Baxter
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Feb 1, 11:16 am, Mike Baxter <mgb....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:41:41 -0600, Wudsracer
>
>
>
>
>
> <dirtbike_smackoverRem....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >*************************************
> >>On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:01:11 -0800 (PST), Tiago Rocha <diariodastril....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> I did file it about 2 years ago.  It did nothing to fix dragging.
>
> >>warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>
> >>-- Tiago
> >**************************************
>
> >Tiago,
> >  The GasGas clutch drag tendency stems from having closer tolerances
> >in the clutch stack, with 7 steel plates and 8 fiber plates in the
> >clutch pack, instead of like the Japanese offerings with 6/7 plates in
> >the stack. They are thinner and generally have less freeplay to
> >accommodate the light pull hydraulic clutch.
> >  One must bleed the hydraulic system about once per month and replace
> >the oil at least every six months to have optimum feel and reduce drag
> >to absolute minimum.  Even then, the clutch will drag enough to
> >diminish rpms just a bit when idling in gear with the clutch pulled
> >in. Maybe not enough to cause a stall during extended idling, but it
> >makes a difference in idle speed and when trying to start in gear
> >(with the clutch lever pulled in).
>
> >Mike,
> >   Try the Amsoil 0w40 synthetic 4-stroke engine oil.  I've been
> >testing it (every weekend) since before Christmas.  The last four
> >weekends riding have while been working trail, with lots of idling in
> >gear while tying flagging on trees and figuring where to go next.
> >    Once my engine warms to operating temperature, there is no clutch
> >drag. (not just diminished, but none).  It is starting in gear just as
> >easily as it does in neutral.
>
> >  This isn't cheap oil ($9 quart), but I had to try it after reading
> >Eric Kangas's oil test on GasGasRider.org.  For my test, I have been
> >running the same oil for the last four weekends, gathering data on the
> >oil's "wear" characteristics while watching the color and quality of
> >the oil through the sight glass window in the side cover, to make sure
> >it doesn't degrade enough to lose engine protection.
>
> > So far, I'm amazed with the oil. (It was a pain in the ass to get.
> > I have no local Amsoil dealer, so I bought a case from friend in
> >Houston, who is set up as a dealer. Since I was ordering, and Mobil
> >quit making their 2-stroke racing premix oil, I ordered a case of the
> >Amsoil "Dominator" premix oil at the same time. This is their racing
> >oil, not the "100/1" stuff. )
>
> >  It was to be my last test before changing back from the Rekluse to
> >the standard clutch set-up.    Now, I'm not so sure I'm going to
> >convert back.     I have to explore this oil and the Rekluse further.
> > I'll next be putting the trials tire back on, if not this morning,
> >very soon, because it changes the demands on the clutch. (It has more
> >grip at very light throttle situations.)
>
> >  Jack and I have been exploring getting someone to build these
> >inserts for the clutch fingers.  I'll check out your link.  Thanks.
> >  We picked him up at the airport yesterday.  We're going to the horse
> >races today, and roosting in the mountains tomorrow.
>
> >Good Riding to You!
>
> >Jim
>
> Jim,
>     My '05 has zero clutch drag.  NONE!  I am going to trade the
> clutch stack between the '00 and '05 and see what happens.  I think
> that a couple Honda CR fiber plates may fix the problem as they are
> slightly thinner.  I have tried Mobil 1 0W-40 in the '00 and it has
> less drag, but it still drags.  I placed a shim between the throwout
> bearing and the pressure plate to eliminate any lost throw do to slop.
>     Now if you keep the clutch pulled in after shutting down the
> engine, you can start it in gear, no problem.  
>
> Mike Baxter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I really like the idea of replaceable SS clips though. Should make a
basket last pretty much forever. Not sure just how much impact notches
on the inner hub has on drag though? WishI had a good way to polish
that thing up.
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

Mike,
The CR250fiber plates look identical to the GasGas fiber plates,
except the CR fiber plates are 3mm thick. The GasGas fiber plates are
2.7mm thick. (.3mm each thinner than Honda)

I just thought I didn't have clutch drag on my '06. Now, I have no
clutch drag (after the oil warms to operating temp).

Jim

***********************************
>On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:16:36 -0800, Mike Baxter <mgb***@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 06:41:41 -0600, Wudsracer
><dirtbike_smackoverRemove RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>*************************************
>>>On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:01:11 -0800 (PST), Tiago Rocha <diariodastrilhas RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jan 31, 6:02 pm, Mike Baxter <mgb... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did file it about 2 years ago. It did nothing to fix dragging.
>>>
>>>warped or worn steel plates could also cause dragging?
>>>
>>>-- Tiago
>>**************************************
>>
>>Tiago,
>> The GasGas clutch drag tendency stems from having closer tolerances
>>in the clutch stack, with 7 steel plates and 8 fiber plates in the
>>clutch pack, instead of like the Japanese offerings with 6/7 plates in
>>the stack. They are thinner and generally have less freeplay to
>>accommodate the light pull hydraulic clutch.
>> One must bleed the hydraulic system about once per month and replace
>>the oil at least every six months to have optimum feel and reduce drag
>>to absolute minimum. Even then, the clutch will drag enough to
>>diminish rpms just a bit when idling in gear with the clutch pulled
>>in. Maybe not enough to cause a stall during extended idling, but it
>>makes a difference in idle speed and when trying to start in gear
>>(with the clutch lever pulled in).
>>
>>Mike,
>> Try the Amsoil 0w40 synthetic 4-stroke engine oil. I've been
>>testing it (every weekend) since before Christmas. The last four
>>weekends riding have while been working trail, with lots of idling in
>>gear while tying flagging on trees and figuring where to go next.
>> Once my engine warms to operating temperature, there is no clutch
>>drag. (not just diminished, but none). It is starting in gear just as
>>easily as it does in neutral.
>>
>> This isn't cheap oil ($9 quart), but I had to try it after reading
>>Eric Kangas's oil test on GasGasRider.org. For my test, I have been
>>running the same oil for the last four weekends, gathering data on the
>>oil's "wear" characteristics while watching the color and quality of
>>the oil through the sight glass window in the side cover, to make sure
>>it doesn't degrade enough to lose engine protection.
>>
>> So far, I'm amazed with the oil. (It was a pain in the ass to get.
>> I have no local Amsoil dealer, so I bought a case from friend in
>>Houston, who is set up as a dealer. Since I was ordering, and Mobil
>>quit making their 2-stroke racing premix oil, I ordered a case of the
>>Amsoil "Dominator" premix oil at the same time. This is their racing
>>oil, not the "100/1" stuff. )
>>
>> It was to be my last test before changing back from the Rekluse to
>>the standard clutch set-up. Now, I'm not so sure I'm going to
>>convert back. I have to explore this oil and the Rekluse further.
>> I'll next be putting the trials tire back on, if not this morning,
>>very soon, because it changes the demands on the clutch. (It has more
>>grip at very light throttle situations.)
>>
>> Jack and I have been exploring getting someone to build these
>>inserts for the clutch fingers. I'll check out your link. Thanks.
>> We picked him up at the airport yesterday. We're going to the horse
>>races today, and roosting in the mountains tomorrow.
>>
>>Good Riding to You!
>>
>>Jim
>
>Jim,
> My '05 has zero clutch drag. NONE! I am going to trade the
>clutch stack between the '00 and '05 and see what happens. I think
>that a couple Honda CR fiber plates may fix the problem as they are
>slightly thinner. I have tried Mobil 1 0W-40 in the '00 and it has
>less drag, but it still drags. I placed a shim between the throwout
>bearing and the pressure plate to eliminate any lost throw do to slop.
> Now if you keep the clutch pulled in after shutting down the
>engine, you can start it in gear, no problem.
>
>Mike Baxter

Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

*****************************
>On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:01:32 -0800 (PST), dsc-ky <Dudley.Cornman DeleteThis @eku.edu> wrote:
>
>Jim... did you ever find out if this is the WUDI Stormin' Norman? I
>heard about this mod a month or so ago and asked you about it then. I
>think I might like to get in to the business of doing theses mods. I'd
>have to talk to my machinist friend and see if he is up for it
>though.
>
>I've also wondered if a plating/coating such as nikasil, etc work for
>something like this?
>
>I didn't know you were considering going away from the Rekluse???
****************************

It's not that I'm going away from the Rekluse, so much as I like to
change things around, and better remember what different set-ups are
like. ( Variety and all that.) I just seem to be dragging my feet on
doing without it.
Plus, I'd hate to lose that finely honed clutch control I developed
over all those years. <G>

See you all later! The truck is warmed up and it's time to go.


Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair 

On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:44:27 -0600, Wudsracer
<dirtbike_smackoverRemove.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Mike,
> The CR250fiber plates look identical to the GasGas fiber plates,
>except the CR fiber plates are 3mm thick. The GasGas fiber plates are
>2.7mm thick. (.3mm each thinner than Honda)
>
> I just thought I didn't have clutch drag on my '06. Now, I have no
>clutch drag (after the oil warms to operating temp).
>
> Jim

Jim, thanks for the CR plate info. I guess I read a post wrong on
Talking Smack. My '05 has ZERO drag. It squeels when abused. I
actually prefer the '00 clutch because it has never made a sound and
the drag is only a small annoyance to me. Once warm, the drag is
less, but always there.

Mike Baxter
 >> Stay informed about: Clutch basket repair