Bye, bye, Laguna Seca

On Jul 16, 4:25 pm, Russell Watson <russell-wat....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:58:24 GMT, "Von Fourche"
>
>
>
>
>
> <Khonak....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
> >news:469be0e4$0$27199$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> >> OK, a little premature and I'm all wet but I think the writing is on the
> >> wall. Laguna's failure to kick out the AMA and bring in the 125's and
> >> 250's will mean Indy will be the sole USGP venue just as soon as Dorna can
> >> wriggle out of the Laguna contract, which could be this year if the track
> >> falls apart, again. Dorna has in Indy a real partner now, not a
> >> non-profit who is staging the event on a shoe-string budget and a little
> >> cash from Yamaha.. After the MotoGP guys enjoy the luxurious facilities
> >> IMS built for the F1 boys, who would want to go back to Laguna?

Yeah, hang out in Indianapolis in September, or Monterey in July?
Tough call...

It will be
> >> all over. WSBK will be back and Laguna and it will be a ghost town, again.

Ghost town? You mean like when they pulled in 90-100k for the WSB/AMA
rounds before?

> > Will AMA Superbike run at Indy in 2009? A MotoGP/AMA Superbike
> >race weekend at Indy would be awesome.

I doubt it - part of the deal was likely that they had to take the
support classes, not that the AMA wasn't available. My guess is that
there will be a lot of pressure for Laguna to do the same once their
current contract expires. I suppose the support classes might have
improved some by then, though...

> Maybe I misunderstood, but I think one point the OP was trying to make
> is that a problem with Laguna IS the AMA/MotoGP setup, rather than a
> pure GP featuring all classes within that series.

A problem for Dorna, who want to run their EuroMed support classes and
get paid for doing so. Not necessarily a problem for the promoters and
the majority of potential customers.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

"Von Fourche" wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
> > A problem for Dorna, who want to run their EuroMed support classes and
> > get paid for doing so. Not necessarily a problem for the promoters and
> > the majority of potential customers.
>
> Why the hate towards AMA? Are they a bad racing organization or
> something?

Relative to the crispness of the Dorna operation, they are sort of
bumbly...

> I thought Indy would love to have AMA as a support race to MotoGP like they
> are in Laguna Seca. Isn't the MotoGP/AMA Superibike weekend a success
> in Laguna Seca? I ask these questions because I don't follow bike racing
> every day like I do open wheel racing, IRL/F1/ChampCar.

Yes, I would think Indy might. But they may not know that much about
bike racing, and assume the GP support classes are better from a draw
standpoint. And I doubt they were given much choice.

> Also, what is this Dorna organization? Are they good to deal with or a
> pain
> in the neck like F1's Bernie Ecclestone (an ass)?

That's very hard to say for anyone who isn't dealing with them, but my
guess is that they are much better. They don't have quite the same
product, so don't pull the same weight. On the other hand, they are
the biggest show in bike racing, so there is a certain arrogance
there, I'm sure. But from what I see, they're not bad.
Characteristically European, but not bad...

> Do I understand the ticket prices right - $75.00 General Admission
> for the whole weekend that gives access to infield and other sections?
> That looks like a decent deal.

If that's it, that's not bad, on par with most of the AMA nationals.
To me, not knowing Indy, trackside access is my big question. Given
it's all GP classes, I assume no pit access at all. And the real cost
for most is getting there and staying there, tickets are nothing.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

"just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
news:469be0e4$0$27199$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> OK, a little premature and I'm all wet but I think the writing is on the
> wall. Laguna's failure to kick out the AMA and bring in the 125's and
> 250's will mean Indy will be the sole USGP venue just as soon as Dorna can
> wriggle out of the Laguna contract, which could be this year if the track
> falls apart, again. Dorna has in Indy a real partner now, not a
> non-profit who is staging the event on a shoe-string budget and a little
> cash from Yamaha.. After the MotoGP guys enjoy the luxurious facilities
> IMS built for the F1 boys, who would want to go back to Laguna? It will be
> all over. WSBK will be back and Laguna and it will be a ghost town, again.
>



Will AMA Superbike run at Indy in 2009? A MotoGP/AMA Superbike
race weekend at Indy would be awesome.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:58:24 GMT, "Von Fourche"
<Khonakong DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
>news:469be0e4$0$27199$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> OK, a little premature and I'm all wet but I think the writing is on the
>> wall. Laguna's failure to kick out the AMA and bring in the 125's and
>> 250's will mean Indy will be the sole USGP venue just as soon as Dorna can
>> wriggle out of the Laguna contract, which could be this year if the track
>> falls apart, again. Dorna has in Indy a real partner now, not a
>> non-profit who is staging the event on a shoe-string budget and a little
>> cash from Yamaha.. After the MotoGP guys enjoy the luxurious facilities
>> IMS built for the F1 boys, who would want to go back to Laguna? It will be
>> all over. WSBK will be back and Laguna and it will be a ghost town, again.
>>
>
>
>
> Will AMA Superbike run at Indy in 2009? A MotoGP/AMA Superbike
>race weekend at Indy would be awesome.
>
>
Maybe I misunderstood, but I think one point the OP was trying to make
is that a problem with Laguna IS the AMA/MotoGP setup, rather than a
pure GP featuring all classes within that series.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

"Mark N" <menusbaum.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1184630104.443929.43930@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 4:25 pm, Russell Watson <russell-wat....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:58:24 GMT, "Von Fourche"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <Khonak....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"just bob" <kilbyfan@aoldotcom> wrote in message
>> >news:469be0e4$0$27199$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> >> OK, a little premature and I'm all wet but I think the writing is on
>> >> the
>> >> wall. Laguna's failure to kick out the AMA and bring in the 125's and
>> >> 250's will mean Indy will be the sole USGP venue just as soon as Dorna
>> >> can
>> >> wriggle out of the Laguna contract, which could be this year if the
>> >> track
>> >> falls apart, again. Dorna has in Indy a real partner now, not a
>> >> non-profit who is staging the event on a shoe-string budget and a
>> >> little
>> >> cash from Yamaha.. After the MotoGP guys enjoy the luxurious
>> >> facilities
>> >> IMS built for the F1 boys, who would want to go back to Laguna?
>
> Yeah, hang out in Indianapolis in September, or Monterey in July?
> Tough call...
>
> It will be
>> >> all over. WSBK will be back and Laguna and it will be a ghost town,
>> >> again.
>
> Ghost town? You mean like when they pulled in 90-100k for the WSB/AMA
> rounds before?
>
>> > Will AMA Superbike run at Indy in 2009? A MotoGP/AMA Superbike
>> >race weekend at Indy would be awesome.
>
> I doubt it - part of the deal was likely that they had to take the
> support classes, not that the AMA wasn't available. My guess is that
> there will be a lot of pressure for Laguna to do the same once their
> current contract expires. I suppose the support classes might have
> improved some by then, though...
>
>> Maybe I misunderstood, but I think one point the OP was trying to make
>> is that a problem with Laguna IS the AMA/MotoGP setup, rather than a
>> pure GP featuring all classes within that series.
>
> A problem for Dorna, who want to run their EuroMed support classes and
> get paid for doing so. Not necessarily a problem for the promoters and
> the majority of potential customers.
>



Why the hate towards AMA? Are they a bad racing organization or
something?
I thought Indy would love to have AMA as a support race to MotoGP like they
are in Laguna Seca. Isn't the MotoGP/AMA Superibike weekend a success
in Laguna Seca? I ask these questions because I don't follow bike racing
every day like I do open wheel racing, IRL/F1/ChampCar.

Also, what is this Dorna organization? Are they good to deal with or a
pain
in the neck like F1's Bernie Ecclestone (an ass)?

Do I understand the ticket prices right - $75.00 General Admission
for the whole weekend that gives access to infield and other sections?
That looks like a decent deal.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

Mark N notices that the weather is better in Indy:

> Yeah, hang out in Indianapolis in September, or Monterey in July?
> Tough call...

Yea, 67 F and partly cloudy or 100 F and blazing sun.
Should be an easy pick.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

Looking at the track map on
http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/modules/2007-motogp-course.pdf
it looks like it's going to be tricky. Several turns seem to be right next
to stands and other areas where people sit. Not having seen the circuit, I
wonder whether the drawing misrepresents the fact this truly has not been
designed with motorcycles and their required gravel traps in mind...

As to the weather discussion, I think the Laguna Seca GP should be either in
April-May or, like they do with Indy, in September, when the worst is over
there. People never believe when one tells them that, as a rule, the
Monterey area is quite foggy and downright cold with some regularity,
courtesy of the Pacific.

....pablo
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

sturd wrote:
> Mark N notices that the weather is better in Indy:
>
>> Yeah, hang out in Indianapolis in September, or Monterey in July?
>> Tough call...
>
> Yea, 67 F and partly cloudy or 100 F and blazing sun.
> Should be an easy pick.

Probably a couple degrees warmer than that this weekend, according to
the forecast, just about normal for this time of year. And is Ind-lis
usually that hot in mid-September? 100 sounds a bit high to me. And
unlike Miller, it's hardly a high-and-dry heat...
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

pablo wrote:
> Looking at the track map on
> http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/modules/2007-motogp-course.pdf
> it looks like it's going to be tricky. Several turns seem to be right next
> to stands and other areas where people sit. Not having seen the circuit, I
> wonder whether the drawing misrepresents the fact this truly has not been
> designed with motorcycles and their required gravel traps in mind...

What I'm wondering about are the two entrances onto the oval, turns 4
and 16. The only thing on the exit is the wall, and the riders will use
all the exit in order to gain the most speed. So are they going to be
willing to run right up against an airfence-covered wall? Or will there
be some funky temporary outside curbing to keep them away from it?

> As to the weather discussion, I think the Laguna Seca GP should be either in
> April-May or, like they do with Indy, in September, when the worst is over
> there. People never believe when one tells them that, as a rule, the
> Monterey area is quite foggy and downright cold with some regularity,
> courtesy of the Pacific.

Seriously, do you actually live out here? In July the weather down there
is reliably high 60s to mid 70s, sometimes a bit cool in the mornings
but almost always nice in the afternoons. The old GP was in the spring,
as was the national that replaced it, and it was reliably cooler, not to
mention the rain that hit all three days in '95 and the fog that delayed
the SB race until Monday morning that year. September would be great,
but then you lose the summer travelers and butt up against football and
school. No, July is perfect for the GP out here. I've only experienced
truly hot weather at two races, last year and the first GP in '88, which
was in April.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

"Mark N" <menusbaum DeleteThis @NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:iMCdnQYsNeWJzAHbnZ2dnUVZ_qCgnZ2d@giganews.com...
> pablo wrote:
>> Looking at the track map on
>> http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/modules/2007-motogp-course.pdf
>> it looks like it's going to be tricky. Several turns seem to be right
>> next to stands and other areas where people sit. Not having seen the
>> circuit, I wonder whether the drawing misrepresents the fact this truly
>> has not been designed with motorcycles and their required gravel traps in
>> mind...
>
> What I'm wondering about are the two entrances onto the oval, turns 4 and
> 16. The only thing on the exit is the wall, and the riders will use all
> the exit in order to gain the most speed. So are they going to be willing
> to run right up against an airfence-covered wall? Or will there be some
> funky temporary outside curbing to keep them away from it?
>
>> As to the weather discussion, I think the Laguna Seca GP should be either
>> in April-May or, like they do with Indy, in September, when the worst is
>> over there. People never believe when one tells them that, as a rule, the
>> Monterey area is quite foggy and downright cold with some regularity,
>> courtesy of the Pacific.
>
> Seriously, do you actually live out here? In July the weather down there
> is reliably high 60s to mid 70s, sometimes a bit cool in the mornings but
> almost always nice in the afternoons. The old GP was in the spring, as was
> the national that replaced it, and it was reliably cooler, not to mention
> the rain that hit all three days in '95 and the fog that delayed the SB
> race until Monday morning that year. September would be great, but then
> you lose the summer travelers and butt up against football and school. No,
> July is perfect for the GP out here. I've only experienced truly hot
> weather at two races, last year and the first GP in '88, which was in
> April.


2001 was pretty damn hot too.

--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Infant
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

Andrew wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> Seriously, do you actually live out here? In July the weather down
>> there is reliably high 60s to mid 70s, sometimes a bit cool in the
>> mornings but almost always nice in the afternoons. The old GP was in
>> the spring, as was the national that replaced it, and it was reliably
>> cooler, not to mention the rain that hit all three days in '95 and the
>> fog that delayed the SB race until Monday morning that year. September
>> would be great, but then you lose the summer travelers and butt up
>> against football and school. No, July is perfect for the GP out here.
>> I've only experienced truly hot weather at two races, last year and
>> the first GP in '88, which was in April.
>
>
> 2001 was pretty damn hot too.

If your name was Bostrom it certainly was...
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

Mark N pretends to be obtuse:

> 100 sounds a bit high to me.

I thought you were there. I was not but the stories of
waiting in 100 F sun for a bus were awe inspiring.


>And is Ind-lis
> usually that hot in mid-September?

Avg of 66.7 for the month. Almost always nice,
only 2" of precipitation for the month. It's perfect
time for a motorcycle race. Only thing better would
be if they had the fair and a mile during the week.

And you can get into/out of the facility in your
own car in a matter of minutes. Many minutes
maybe but not hours.

As for the track, yes it looks close to some walls.
I'm hoping that the largeness of the facility (it really
is huge) makes the picture look worse than it
really is. I prefer to see zero air fence and none
required.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca 

"pablo" <pabloAT.DeleteThis@simplyhombreDOT.net> wrote in message
news:ffOdnZhTCvEs1gHbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Looking at the track map on
> http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/modules/2007-motogp-course.pdf
> it looks like it's going to be tricky. Several turns seem to be right next
> to stands and other areas where people sit. Not having seen the circuit, I
> wonder whether the drawing misrepresents the fact this truly has not been
> designed with motorcycles and their required gravel traps in mind...
>
> As to the weather discussion, I think the Laguna Seca GP should be either
> in April-May or, like they do with Indy, in September, when the worst is
> over there. People never believe when one tells them that, as a rule, the
> Monterey area is quite foggy and downright cold with some regularity,
> courtesy of the Pacific.
>

Just read on the Road Racing site that they predict 70 degrees for this
weekend. Of course the idiots are taking this from Monterey, while the track
is in Salinas.
 >> Stay informed about: Bye, bye, Laguna Seca