Beginner bikes - Twinstar?

 >Cam Penner wrote:
  >> I'm currently in the "new to me" role of actually helping
  >> someone learn to ride. Fortunately, I'm not actually
  >> instructing, but providing in between lesson coaching and
  >> advise.
  >>
  >> What bikes have been available recently (particularly in
  >> Canada) that are SUB-Rebel sized?
  >>

Nighthawk 250
CB125 (I've seen examples as late as 1992 for sale)
Kawasaki Eliminator 125 (ick)
Kawasaki KLR-250 (dual sport)
Kawasaki Ninja 250
Suzuki GN125 (available - at least in the US - until 1997 or so)
Yamaha XT225 (dual sport, kick start only)
Kawasaki KE100 (100cc 2-stroke dual sport, imported to the US before
2001)

If you're willing to go a bit bigger, your choices increase:
Suzuki GS500E - smooth, easily controllable, good handling, and light
Kawasaki Ninja 500
I know that Honda makes a CB500 for some markets. Is it imported to
Canada, maybe?
Kawasaki KLR-650 (dual sport)
Suzuki DRZ-400 (dual sport, popular among the street supermotad crowd)
An older Nighthawk 550. I have one, can't praise it enough. Shaft
drive is good.
Kawasaki W650 (retro vertical twin)
Suzuki Savage 650 (nice power delivery, light, but I rode one and
absolutely hated the "handling")
BMW F650 Funduro. Single-cylinder, fuel-injected, dual-sportish thing,
sometimes with belt drive.

My opinion tends to be biased towards dual sports and sporty bikes and
against cruisers. Consider yourself forewarned
-Andrew
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

In article , Andrew Szafran
says...
 >
  > >Cam Penner wrote:
   > >> I'm currently in the "new to me" role of actually helping
   > >> someone learn to ride. Fortunately, I'm not actually
   > >> instructing, but providing in between lesson coaching and
   > >> advise.
   > >>
   > >> What bikes have been available recently (particularly in
   > >> Canada) that are SUB-Rebel sized?
   > >>
 >
 > Nighthawk 250
 > CB125 (I've seen examples as late as 1992 for sale)
 > Kawasaki Eliminator 125 (ick)
 > Kawasaki KLR-250 (dual sport)

There's one at the class. Too tall for now.

 > Kawasaki Ninja 250

Too much plastic.

 > Suzuki GN125 (available - at least in the US - until 1997 or so)
 > Yamaha XT225 (dual sport, kick start only)

Too tall.

 > Kawasaki KE100 (100cc 2-stroke dual sport, imported to the US before
 > 2001)

This is an interesting option. We've already got a shelf
of 2-stroke oil.

 > If you're willing to go a bit bigger, your choices increase:

Yeah. But the Marauder 250 was already too big for this
stage of learning. Either that or the bars were too far
away. Getting anywhere near full lock steering was out of
arms reach.

 > Suzuki GS500E - smooth, easily controllable, good handling, and light
 > Kawasaki Ninja 500
 > I know that Honda makes a CB500 for some markets. Is it imported to
 > Canada, maybe?
 > Kawasaki KLR-650 (dual sport)
 > Suzuki DRZ-400 (dual sport, popular among the street supermotad crowd)
 > An older Nighthawk 550. I have one, can't praise it enough. Shaft
 > drive is good.
 > Kawasaki W650 (retro vertical twin)
 > Suzuki Savage 650 (nice power delivery, light, but I rode one and
 > absolutely hated the "handling")
 > BMW F650 Funduro. Single-cylinder, fuel-injected, dual-sportish thing,
 > sometimes with belt drive.

These all sound like good NEXT bikes. They're all up on
the weight and seat height. Once you cross 400ccs in my
area, insurance prices start to climb significantly. Our
insurance rates are based on engine size. This makes the
399cc and less bikes WAY cheaper to insure.

 > My opinion tends to be biased towards dual sports and sporty bikes and
 > against cruisers. Consider yourself forewarned

Yeah, sporty is good. The cruiser seating position has
been "deemed to be less desirable" based on the small
sampling of bikes tried to date. (Rebel, Marauder,
Twinstar, RZ). Dual sports tend to require more inseam. I
think our tastes run the same - with dual sports relegated
down the priority list due to physical limitations. Maybe
a KLR-250 with a 3 or 4 inch lowering.

Thanks for the list though.

--
Cam
'89 RZ 350
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

 > My opinion tends to be biased towards dual sports and sporty bikes and
 > against cruisers. Consider yourself forewarned

Unfortunately, for short riders, those bikes tend to be quite tall.
Generally cruisers are much more low slung. Suzuki makes a Marauder 250
which is quite small and there is also the Yamaha Virago 250.

cheers,

Kris
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

Cam Penner wrote in message ...

 > So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
 > used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
 > 250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?

The Kawasaki VN125 Vulcan is worthy of note. We teach the MSF course
with them down here in Texas and they generally work very well, even
for the most timid of newbies.

Regards,

Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
DoD #2184
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.timkreitz.com" target="_blank">http://www.timkreitz.com</a>
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://superbikeblog.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://superbikeblog.blogspot.com</a>
----------------------------------------------------
Don't stare into the sun, even if your eyes are cold.
----------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

Cam Penner wrote in message ...

 > So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
 > used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
 > 250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?

The Kawasaki VN125 Vulcan is worthy of note. We teach the MSF course
with them down here in Texas and they generally work very well, even
for the most timid of newbies.

CORRECTION: I meant VN125 Eliminator, not Vulcan. I can't believe I
made that mistake, especially considering how ironic I've always
considered using the name "Eliminator" for a training bike to be.

My bad

Regards,

Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
DoD #2184
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.timkreitz.com" target="_blank">http://www.timkreitz.com</a>
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://superbikeblog.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://superbikeblog.blogspot.com</a>
----------------------------------------------------
Don't stare into the sun, even if your eyes are cold.
----------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 10:37:22 -0400, me wrote:

  >> My opinion tends to be biased towards dual sports and sporty bikes and
  >> against cruisers. Consider yourself forewarned
 >
 >Unfortunately, for short riders, those bikes tend to be quite tall.
 >Generally cruisers are much more low slung. Suzuki makes a Marauder 250
 >which is quite small and there is also the Yamaha Virago 250.
 >
 >cheers,
 >
 >Kris

That's the one I would have suggested. (Yamaha)
Other than that, I see some of the Korean and possibly Chinese bikes
may be imported soon if they aren't alredy.
--
Bob Mann
Some people just don't know how to drive...
I call these people "Everybody But Me,"
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

Cam Penner wrote:
 > What bikes have been available recently (particularly in
 > Canada) that are SUB-Rebel sized?

If you should happen upon one a Honda tlr200 Reflex trials bike
is worth a close look. The only thing not to like is that it's
kickstart, but mine will start on the first kick after sitting
for a month or two. Hot starts after stalling are sometimes
vexatious, but the bike's so easy to ride it won't get stalled
or dropped very often.

They were imported to the US in '86 and '87, don't know about Canada.
The only difference between the two years is a slightly bigger front
brake.

bob prohaska
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:32:51 -0700, Cam Penner

wrote:

 >I'm currently in the "new to me" role of actually helping
 >someone learn to ride. Fortunately, I'm not actually
 >instructing, but providing in between lesson coaching and
 >advise.
 >
 >What bikes have been available recently (particularly in
 >Canada) that are SUB-Rebel sized?
 >
 >Most of the confidence seems to come when a '77 Twinstar is
 >used for class. There are some more modern 250s, but they
 >don't yet inspire confidence - I don't know if it's a
 >weight issue, seating position, or geometry. All I've been
 >able to observe is "Twinstar good, other bikes, not so
 >good." What was the latest year the Twinstar was
 >available?
 >
 >So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
 >used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
 >250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?
 >
 >(oh yeah - seat height on an RZ is not exactly confidence
 >inspiring to inseam challenged new riders. If that's you,
 >and you've found this thread in a search researching
 >beginning bikes, take note.)
 >--
 >Cam
 >'89 RZ 350

How about a YSR50/80? Or would that be TOO small?


Brent Mooney sportridersATsasktelDOTnet
'86 CBR400R Aero
'90 YSR50 racebike
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

great.white.TakeThisOut@north.com (Brent Mooney) wrote in


 > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:32:51 -0700, Cam Penner wrote:
 >
  >>Most of the confidence seems to come when a '77 Twinstar is
  >>used for class. There are some more modern 250s, but they
  >>don't yet inspire confidence - I don't know if it's a
  >>weight issue, seating position, or geometry. All I've been
  >>able to observe is "Twinstar good, other bikes, not so
  >>good." What was the latest year the Twinstar was
  >>available?
  >>
  >>So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
  >>used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
  >>250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?
  >>
  >>(oh yeah - seat height on an RZ is not exactly confidence
  >>inspiring to inseam challenged new riders. If that's you,
  >>and you've found this thread in a search researching
  >>beginning bikes, take note.)
 >
 > How about a YSR50/80? Or would that be TOO small?

The Rebel suffers from a wierd handlebard position that IMHO
is a little uncomfortable.

IMHO, the twinstar is a little lighter and thus easier to
handle. IIRC peg location was standard, which might make a
difference.

I'd say the Suzuki GZ250 single thumper and the 125 cc
Kawasaki Eliminator cruiser would probably work.

I saw a cute 1980's vintage Kawasaki 250 street thumper that
resembled the GZ going for around $600 here not long ago, with
belt drive.

1980's vintage Yamaha 250 Exciter street thumper would also
probably work.

- HPT
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

In article ,
hpt.TakeThisOut@highplainsthumper.com says...


 >
  > > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:32:51 -0700, Cam Penner wrote:
  > >
   > >>Most of the confidence seems to come when a '77 Twinstar is
   > >>used for class. There are some more modern 250s, but they
   > >>don't yet inspire confidence - I don't know if it's a
   > >>weight issue, seating position, or geometry. All I've been
   > >>able to observe is "Twinstar good, other bikes, not so
   > >>good." What was the latest year the Twinstar was
   > >>available?
   > >>
   > >>So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
   > >>used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
   > >>250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?
   > >>
   > >>(oh yeah - seat height on an RZ is not exactly confidence
   > >>inspiring to inseam challenged new riders. If that's you,
   > >>and you've found this thread in a search researching
   > >>beginning bikes, take note.)
  > >
  > > How about a YSR50/80? Or would that be TOO small?
 >
 > The Rebel suffers from a wierd handlebard position that IMHO
 > is a little uncomfortable.
 >
 > IMHO, the twinstar is a little lighter and thus easier to
 > handle. IIRC peg location was standard, which might make a
 > difference.
 >
 > I'd say the Suzuki GZ250 single thumper and the 125 cc
 > Kawasaki Eliminator cruiser would probably work.
 >
 > I saw a cute 1980's vintage Kawasaki 250 street thumper that
 > resembled the GZ going for around $600 here not long ago, with
 > belt drive.
 >
 > 1980's vintage Yamaha 250 Exciter street thumper would also
 > probably work.

Thanks for the replies. The class has been passed. She
did the parking lot work on the Twinstar - with zero
demerits, and the street portion on a Maurader 250 - with
very few demerits. The Maurader wasn't as bad when being
ridden in a "regular" environment rather than through the
cones of doom, but still not up her alley. I'll keep these
bikes under advisement. Bike shopping will be a long,
ongoing, low intensity process.

--
Cam
'89 RZ 350
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar? 

My wife wants to ride and the 500 CC Kaw seems to be a good fit. She is 5'2
and 115 so if your wife matches up you might look at the 500 Kaw.

DC

"Cam Penner"
wrote in
message




  >>
   >> > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:32:51 -0700, Cam Penner wrote:
   >> >
   >> >>Most of the confidence seems to come when a '77 Twinstar is
   >> >>used for class. There are some more modern 250s, but they
   >> >>don't yet inspire confidence - I don't know if it's a
   >> >>weight issue, seating position, or geometry. All I've been
   >> >>able to observe is "Twinstar good, other bikes, not so
   >> >>good." What was the latest year the Twinstar was
   >> >>available?
   >> >>
   >> >>So I'm on a bit of a quest to see what I can find in the
   >> >>used bike market that is LESS intimidating than a Rebel
   >> >>250. We're talking a SMALL new rider here. Ideas?
   >> >>
   >> >>(oh yeah - seat height on an RZ is not exactly confidence
   >> >>inspiring to inseam challenged new riders. If that's you,
   >> >>and you've found this thread in a search researching
   >> >>beginning bikes, take note.)
   >> >
   >> > How about a YSR50/80? Or would that be TOO small?
  >>
  >> The Rebel suffers from a wierd handlebard position that IMHO
  >> is a little uncomfortable.
  >>
  >> IMHO, the twinstar is a little lighter and thus easier to
  >> handle. IIRC peg location was standard, which might make a
  >> difference.
  >>
  >> I'd say the Suzuki GZ250 single thumper and the 125 cc
  >> Kawasaki Eliminator cruiser would probably work.
  >>
  >> I saw a cute 1980's vintage Kawasaki 250 street thumper that
  >> resembled the GZ going for around $600 here not long ago, with
  >> belt drive.
  >>
  >> 1980's vintage Yamaha 250 Exciter street thumper would also
  >> probably work.
 >
 > Thanks for the replies. The class has been passed. She
 > did the parking lot work on the Twinstar - with zero
 > demerits, and the street portion on a Maurader 250 - with
 > very few demerits. The Maurader wasn't as bad when being
 > ridden in a "regular" environment rather than through the
 > cones of doom, but still not up her alley. I'll keep these
 > bikes under advisement. Bike shopping will be a long,
 > ongoing, low intensity process.
 >
 > --
 > Cam
 > '89 RZ 350
 >> Stay informed about: Beginner bikes - Twinstar?