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Since: Mar 05, 2005 Posts: 777
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:46 am
Post subject: Adios, 2007 Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles>racing (more info?)
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Not a dramatic finish to the year in MotoGP in Valencia, but plenty of
change and loaded with symbolism:
- Pedrosa wins, finally making his qualifying pace extend to the race,
and the Michelins managed to last as well. For Pedrosa it is his first
MotoGP win in Spain, and meant he takes over 2nd place in the final
standings. Also symbolic of the March of the Midgets that the smallest
of all wins the final race (the average weight of the race winner this
year finishes at 132 pounds, btw), and it only adds to it that he passed
Stoner and his extra 16 pounds down the Valencia straight on the gas.
Michelin got it right for him this weekend, which suggest they may be
able to get it done if they have only one guy to focus on. That's
assuming Hayden was really testing tires at this point and turncoat
Rossi had been abandoned. A preview of 2008?
- Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year,
more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down
field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. But next year he gets
the Bridgestones, so a new start for him, although it apparently won't
happen this week. But from a points standpoint for two years in a row
he's come into the last year with it all but in the bag and still
managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And only four wins
this season, his fewest since 2000. So how long will he continue on with
Yamaha if they can't manage to get him back to his rightful place?
- Stoner takes second on a day when it looked like he'd roll on once
again. As he's done all year, he seemed to get what he could out of the
bike, which has more often than not been plenty enough. A great season,
but as it has been all year, the question remains if it was the tires,
or the bike, or the rider, in what was a hugely transitional year.
Probably best to pat Stoner, Ducati and Bridgestone on the back,
recognize that all three did it better than anyone else, and move on.
- Hopkins signs off with Suzuki with another podium and takes 4th in
the championship. Really a great year that kind of tailed off after his
early announcement that he was moving on to Kawasaki, and his team
stopped inviting him to the tests and shifted their focus to Vermeulen.
For Hopper it looks like a good move right now, given how good the
Kawasaki has looked down the stretch and how Suzuki's commitment to
winning in GP is eternally questioned. But with Rossi, Stoner and
Melandri to support, will the tires he gets be up to the job?
- Hayden tried, but his experimental 16-inch tires just didn't seem to
be up to the task this weekend, so he faded to 8th, where he also
finished in the championship, getting by Edwards today. That equals his
worst GP placing, that in 2004, and it means the guys sporting the #1
plate that last four times have finished 17th (Doohan in '99), 9th
(Criville in '00), 11th (Roberts in '01) and 8th - a new curse for
Stoner to consider? For Hayden 2007 started with post-season surgery
(courtesy of Pedrosa), a bike that didn't fit him (courtesy of Pedrosa)
that didn't have the power and didn't have a chassis that worked well
enough, then it became clear that Michelin didn't have the tires. He
crashed twice in the rain, got punted off the track a few times, and had
his bike die at PI during his best race of the year. One has to think
2008 can't be that bad, but there's no question at all that Pedrosa is
HRC's man now. Still, if Michelin can do the business, then he's the
only one to beat, with no Rossi on his side tire-wise.
- After 4th today Melandri moves on from Gresini, having had his worst
year on a Honda, 5th in points, no wins, only 3 podiums. The superior
Bridgestones never seemed to quite work for him on this bike, and it
will be interesting to see how he gets along with the Ducati. Certainly
the opportunity that he would have had this season had Fausto not
dragged him back from the brink will be gone, everyone having had a year
to adjust to the new playing field. If he does very well, it will
detract from Stoner's achievement this year, and if he doesn't, it will
confirm how good Stoner really is.
- Capirossi takes 5th today and 7th in the championship, in the year
that should have been for him. So was it a mismatch with the bike, the
accumulation of all those seasons, too old to learn new tricks, the
baby, what? Really the biggest question mark of the year, but he still
gets another chance with Suzuki, and one wonders how big of a mistake
that might be.
- Vermeulen takes 6th in the race and in the championship, getting his
first win in the rain at Le Mans and three other podiums. But those
races really made his year, otherwise 7th or lower pretty much all year,
so is he ready to be a factory #1? His biggest problems seem to be
qualifying and getting to the front in the early laps, often having very
good pace but not the position to make full use of that, and that was
repeated this weekend.
- Barros and Checa check out, after very long 500/MotoGP careers, the
very symbols of the Dorna commercial era in GP, never finishing higher
than 4th in any championship (between them there were 30) but always
pleasing the money men and so welcomed back year after year. Their
departure also symbolizes the potential end of the era of 150-pound
MotoGP riders, their places effectively taken by guys 20-25 pounds
lighter. Adios, Fester and Chucker...
- Also gone may be Dunlop, and after a weekend where both their bikes
qualified on the 2nd row and Guintoli was top Yamaha in both qualifying
and the race. I don't know where they fit in next year, unless either
D'Antin (Elias, Guintoli) or Gresini (Nakano, de Angelis) gets tossed by
Bridgestone in the Rossi deal, or Michelin loses LCR or doesn't get
Scot. None of that seems likely. Team Roberts won't take them, so that
would leave it to a new team TBD, and that seems very unlikely, unless
it's Ilmor.
- Speaking of rubber, the Year of the Tire ended quietly, with the
controversial rule juggled slightly to give the Michelin runners more
options, the tire count increased from 31 to 40, but otherwise remains.
And Rossi's move remains officially under wraps yet. An odd way to end
all the controversy, and what it seems to confirm is that what really
matters in MotoGP is that EuroGod gets the best of everything.
- And then there are the Kennys Roberts... >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Jan 02, 2004 Posts: 4854
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:40 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:46:41 -0800, Mark N
wrote:
> - Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year,
>more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down
>field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. But next year he gets
>the Bridgestones, so a new start for him, although it apparently won't
>happen this week. But from a points standpoint for two years in a row
>he's come into the last year with it all but in the bag and still
>managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
What does this last sentence mean? Even assuming you meant "...come
into the last race..", it doesn't make sense. Unless you were talking
about having second place "in the bag", and I really doubt Rossi gives
a monkey's about second place.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Mar 05, 2005 Posts: 777
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:12 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Champ wrote:
> Mark N wrote:
>
>> - Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year,
>> more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down
>> field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. But next year he gets
>> the Bridgestones, so a new start for him, although it apparently won't
>> happen this week. But from a points standpoint for two years in a row
>> he's come into the last year with it all but in the bag and still
>> managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
> What does this last sentence mean? Even assuming you meant "...come
> into the last race..", it doesn't make sense. Unless you were talking
> about having second place "in the bag", and I really doubt Rossi gives
> a monkey's about second place.
Yes, I meant "last race of the year". I kind of thought it wouldn't be
that big of a deal to him, like you, but it seems finishing 2nd was
important, he having never finished lower than 2nd since he was a GP
rookie in 1996. At least that's what he was saying before the race, they
seemed to be making a big deal about the mechanics of that going into
the race (his pitboard reporting Pedrosa's position), and really that he
raced at all with that injury. I know he's also never missed a race due
to injury, but it seems obvious that taking 2nd in points was important
to him. Nothing like winning a championship, of course. >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Oct 19, 2007 Posts: 71
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:37 pm
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2007-11-05 04:21:55 -0500, Champ said:
> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:46:41 -0800, Mark N
> wrote:
>
>> - Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year,
>> more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down
>> field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. But next year he gets
>> the Bridgestones, so a new start for him, although it apparently won't
>> happen this week. But from a points standpoint for two years in a row
>> he's come into the last year with it all but in the bag and still
>> managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
>
> What does this last sentence mean? Even assuming you meant "...come
> into the last race..", it doesn't make sense. Unless you were talking
> about having second place "in the bag", and I really doubt Rossi gives
> a monkey's about second place.
Kinda' strange that after 20 laps, or so he throws in the towel, then
again, they prolly don't give point for last place. That said, I'd
imagine next year will be a "little" different... >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Mar 24, 2004 Posts: 1097
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:39 pm
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:37:04 -0500, T3 wrote:
>On 2007-11-05 04:21:55 -0500, Champ said:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:46:41 -0800, Mark N
>> wrote:
>>
>>> - Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year,
>>> more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down
>>> field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. But next year he gets
>>> the Bridgestones, so a new start for him, although it apparently won't
>>> happen this week. But from a points standpoint for two years in a row
>>> he's come into the last year with it all but in the bag and still
>>> managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
>>
>> What does this last sentence mean? Even assuming you meant "...come
>> into the last race..", it doesn't make sense. Unless you were talking
>> about having second place "in the bag", and I really doubt Rossi gives
>> a monkey's about second place.
>
>Kinda' strange that after 20 laps, or so he throws in the towel, then
>again, they prolly don't give point for last place. That said, I'd
>imagine next year will be a "little" different...
As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
--
Champ >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:39 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>I know he's also never missed a race due to injury, but it seems obvious
>that taking 2nd in points was important to him.
Or the fact that Biaggi has more consecutive starts in GP's which may have
assisted in him taking the grid in painful circumstances.
Daron >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Jun 20, 2003 Posts: 798
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:39 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Champ Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:23:08
>>Kinda' strange that after 20 laps, or so he throws in the towel, then
>>again, they prolly don't give point for last place. That said, I'd
>>imagine next year will be a "little" different...
>
>As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
Maybe it doesn't mean anything but Yamaha have publicly apologised to
him for failing to give him a bike that would let him retain 2nd in the
championship.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM *** >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 96
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:39 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jun 20, 2003 Posts: 798
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:43 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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guig Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:03:33
>On 2007-11-06 06:58:16 +0000, Julian Bond said:
>
>> Champ Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:23:08
>>>> Kinda' strange that after 20 laps, or so he throws in the towel, then
>>>> again, they prolly don't give point for last place. That said, I'd
>>>> imagine next year will be a "little" different...
>>> As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
>> Maybe it doesn't mean anything but Yamaha have publicly apologised
>>to him for failing to give him a bike that would let him retain 2nd
>>in the championship.
>
>Wonder what went on behind closed doors for them to issue that statement.
The stories are all consistent, even if we choose not to believe them.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM *** >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 74
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:39 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:25 -0800, Mark N
dropped the following oil-slick:
> At least that's what he was saying before the race, they
>seemed to be making a big deal about the mechanics of that going into
>the race (his pitboard reporting Pedrosa's position), and really that he
>raced at all with that injury
No puzzle there. Every racer, every race needs a target for the race
to keep focus. Especially so if riding injured which can be more than
a little distracting and can affect the concentration. Whether he
actually gave a toss about P2/P3 in the overall scheme of things is a
different kettle of poisson rouge.
--
gomez
Honda TransAlp,KTM 640LC Enduro (For Sale)
(not is not to reply)
"The best tool for the job is the hammer thats nearest to hand" >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Oct 19, 2007 Posts: 71
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:46 am
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On 2007-11-05 18:23:08 -0500, Champ said:
> On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:37:04 -0500, T3 wrote:
>>
>
> As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
I dunno Neal, it sorta' looked like while racing for 15th place, or so
he blew a turn and just said screw this and went in. What was revealing
was blaming the Yam instead of jut saying he sukd that day because of
his hand, but I guess when your the GOAT you need to cast blame
elsewhere. In any event, he seems to have gotten pretty much everything
he wanted for next year... >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Jun 20, 2003 Posts: 798
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:40 am
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T3 Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:46:51
>I dunno Neal, it sorta' looked like while racing for 15th place, or so
>he blew a turn and just said screw this and went in.
>What was revealing was blaming the Yam instead of jut saying he sukd
>that day because of his hand
Unless it was actually the machine that broke. Just before he blew the
turn, the bike did snap sideways a bit under braking. Which squares with
his description. "I thought I could finish 11th or 14th in the race," he
said. "I was fairly quick, but then when I braked for the first corner I
felt something block in the engine, and the rear wheel stopped. I pulled
the clutch in and released it, but the feeling was different from the
tyre, so I stopped." According to Mike Nicks,
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/156798-0/crashnets_valencian_
gp_blog_sunday.html
Thing is, up to that corner he was turning lap times equivalent to
Hopkins in 4th and was overhauling people. That doesn't square with him
being unable to race through the pain. I guess it's possible that his
hand was going numb and he felt it was too dangerous to race because his
braking sensitivity was way off, but right up to that moment it didn't
look like it.
So at the moment, I choose to believe the official story.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM *** >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Mar 05, 2005 Posts: 777
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:58 pm
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Julian Bond wrote:
> Champ
>>> Kinda' strange that after 20 laps, or so he throws in the towel, then
>>> again, they prolly don't give point for last place. That said, I'd
>>> imagine next year will be a "little" different...
>>
>> As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
>
> Maybe it doesn't mean anything but Yamaha have publicly apologised to
> him for failing to give him a bike that would let him retain 2nd in the
> championship.
C'mon, they've been kissing his ass for four years. It's just like
Michelin's apology to him after China last year, "Oh, please, Valentino,
don't be angry with us, it's all our fault but we promise to do better..." >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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Since: Mar 24, 2004 Posts: 1097
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:00 am
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On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:46:51 -0500, T3 wrote:
>On 2007-11-05 18:23:08 -0500, Champ said:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:37:04 -0500, T3 wrote:
>>>
>>
>> As I said in another thread - he says the engine failed.
>
>I dunno Neal, it sorta' looked like while racing for 15th place, or so
>he blew a turn and just said screw this and went in.
Yeah, Tom, it sorta looks like that.
Thank goodness we have more information than "what it looks like".
--
Champ >> Stay informed about: Adios, 2007 |
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