31 DEAD?!?

"Bob Mann" <Bobo.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote

> I a little disingenuous methinks.

And I say anyone who thinks 31 presently dead people shouldn't have been
allowed to defend themselves because a gun in their possession *might* have
been mis-used, has some serious problems dealing with reality.
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....TakeThisOut@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:

> > Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
> > societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
> > be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>
> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
> home.....unlike US wars.

They're at war with each other. I'd hardly call that
a well behaved society. Would they be better behaved
with more guns ?

> > Lets hear the counter examples. Switzerland ?
> > Could it perhaps be cultural values rather than guns ?
> > Nahh !! It says right here that a well armed ...
>
> Are you saying your next generation have no cultural values?....that
> they can't be trusted?

I'm saying your assertion that well armed societies are
well or better behaved has nothing to suppport it.
We're better armed than many first world societies already
and don't have any statistics I'm aware of which support
your assertion.
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Apr 16, 2:50 pm, BrianNZ <b... RemoveThis @itnz.co.nz> wrote:
> Not a good day for engineering students........

If only one of them had been armed and well-trained. How many lives
could've been saved this morning? It's sad that our modern culture
discourages gun proficiency and the tenants of basic self defense. A
horrible day, indeed.

Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
http://www.timkreitz.com
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Apr 16, 4:20 pm, Bob Mann <B....DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I a little disingenuous methinks.

A bit of a stretch, and largely unrealistic. If we were talking about
junior high students, I'd agree -- but college students are adults
whom are generally capable of responsible gun ownership. A well-armed
soiety is a well-behaved society, and a balance of power is he only
truly effective way to reduce body counts in situations like this.

Tim Kreitz
2003 ZX7R
2000 ZX6R
http://www.timkreitz.com
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Apr 16, 4:45 pm, BrianNZ <b....RemoveThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
> > On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....RemoveThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
> >> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
> >>> Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
> >>> societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
> >>> be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
> >> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
> >> home.....unlike US wars.
>
> > They're at war with each other.
>
> Afghanistan has been occupied by the French,

Say what ???????????????

Fill me in on that bit of history please. I don't think
anybody but you is aware of their occupation by
the French. Not even the Afghanis.
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On 16 Apr 2007 13:44:30 -0700, "Rob Kleinschmidt"
<Rkleinsch1216128 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:

>On Apr 16, 1:33 pm, "Tim Kreitz" <timkre... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 4:20 pm, Bob Mann <B... DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I a little disingenuous methinks.
>>
>> A bit of a stretch, and largely unrealistic. If we were talking about
>> junior high students, I'd agree -- but college students are adults
>> whom are generally capable of responsible gun ownership. A well-armed
>> soiety is a well-behaved society, and a balance of power is he only
>> truly effective way to reduce body counts in situations like this.
>
>Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed

Full of ignorant savages living in the Dark Ages.

>societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
>be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?

We have as many or more civilian-owned weapons here in the
USA. But you don't see warfare in the streets as a normal daily
event.

>Lets hear the counter examples. Switzerland ?
>Could it perhaps be cultural values rather than guns ?
>Nahh !! It says right here that a well armed ...

Are you arguing with yourself ?

>Also, since college students aren't old enough to be
>allowed to buy beer, maybe they're considered by some
>to be less than 100% responsible adults.

Or sober shooters ?

What about the teachers and staff ?

>How about guns in the workplace to ensure more politeness
>there too ?

Works for me.

The way it works now, the only person at VA Tech in the rooms
with the shooting going on was the guy who woke up this morning and
said 'This is the day I go kill 31 people at school'. Do you much
figure he was worried about breaking a gun law in the process ? Would
another gun law have stopped him ? "Damn, I'd REALL REALLY like to go
kill a few dozen people at school today, but they have that darned
rule about 'no guns on campus', I guess I'll just go shoot some hoops
instead' ? Ya figure ?

>
>Not particularly a comment on gun control, just on
>what sure look like assertions pulled out of places
>that never see much sunshine.

In general, how many gun laws do you figure criminals,
murderers, and crazies follow ?


--
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Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
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 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Apr 16, 5:44 pm, .p.jm.RemoveThis@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2007 16:31:13 -0700, "Rob Kleinschmidt"
>
> <Rkleinsch1216....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....RemoveThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
> >> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
> >> > Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
> >> > societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
> >> > be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>
> >> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
> >> home.....unlike US wars.
>
> >They're at war with each other.
>
> And themselves. It's ~ 50 / 50.
>
> > I'd hardly call that
> >a well behaved society. Would they be better behaved
> >with more guns ?
>
> Sadly, that doesn't work with savages and jngle bunnies.

So where exactly does it work well besides in your dreams ?
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On 16 Apr 2007 13:33:26 -0700, "Tim Kreitz" <timkreitz.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Apr 16, 4:20 pm, Bob Mann <B....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> I a little disingenuous methinks.
>
>A bit of a stretch, and largely unrealistic. If we were talking about
>junior high students, I'd agree -- but college students are adults
>whom are generally capable of responsible gun ownership. A well-armed
>soiety is a well-behaved society, and a balance of power is he only
>truly effective way to reduce body counts in situations like this.
>
Of course, the occasional OK Corral is also a possibility.
Not that I care a whole lot either way but most of the rest of the
(civilized) world manages to get by without packing heat.
--
Bob Mann

It may be that your sole purpose in life
is to serve as a warning to others.
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
> On Apr 16, 1:33 pm, "Tim Kreitz" <timkre... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 4:20 pm, Bob Mann <B... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I a little disingenuous methinks.
>> A bit of a stretch, and largely unrealistic. If we were talking about
>> junior high students, I'd agree -- but college students are adults
>> whom are generally capable of responsible gun ownership. A well-armed
>> soiety is a well-behaved society, and a balance of power is he only
>> truly effective way to reduce body counts in situations like this.
>
> Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
> societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
> be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>


The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
home.....unlike US wars.



> Lets hear the counter examples. Switzerland ?
> Could it perhaps be cultural values rather than guns ?
> Nahh !! It says right here that a well armed ...
>


Are you saying your next generation have no cultural values?....that
they can't be trusted?

You get one or two bad apples so the lot get branded as the same?




> Also, since college students aren't old enough to be
> allowed to buy beer, maybe they're considered by some
> to be less than 100% responsible adults.
>



No-one acts 100% responsible all the time. Buying beer and defending
yourself against a mass murderer aren't quite the same thing.




> How about guns in the workplace to ensure more politeness
> there too ?
>


Again, do you see no difference between 'politeness' and 'indiscriminate
killing of fellow students'? There is a time and place for firearms use,
and taking out a mass murderer in self defence is a pretty good excuse
that should stand up in court.....unlike a 'he wasn't polite' defense.



> Not particularly a comment on gun control, just on
> what sure look like assertions pulled out of places
> that never see much sunshine.
>


Obviously on your part.......
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On 16 Apr 2007 16:31:13 -0700, "Rob Kleinschmidt"
<Rkleinsch1216128.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:

>On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....DeleteThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
>> > Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
>> > societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
>> > be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>>
>> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
>> home.....unlike US wars.
>
>They're at war with each other.

And themselves. It's ~ 50 / 50.

> I'd hardly call that
>a well behaved society. Would they be better behaved
>with more guns ?

Sadly, that doesn't work with savages and jngle bunnies.


>
>> > Lets hear the counter examples. Switzerland ?
>> > Could it perhaps be cultural values rather than guns ?
>> > Nahh !! It says right here that a well armed ...
>>
>> Are you saying your next generation have no cultural values?....that
>> they can't be trusted?
>
>I'm saying your assertion that well armed societies are
>well or better behaved has nothing to suppport it.
>We're better armed than many first world societies already
>and don't have any statistics I'm aware of which support
>your assertion.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
> On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....RemoveThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>
>>> Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
>>> societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
>>> be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
>> home.....unlike US wars.
>
> They're at war with each other.


Afghanistan has been occupied by the French, the Russians and now the
'Coalition of the Willing'....and they will fight the next lot to walk
into their country as well.

Iraq has had it's ups and downs with the US over the last few years?


In Somalia the warlords are trying to hold their territory against an
influx of millions of refugees from neighbouring countries....sort of
like your illegal Mexican invasion, except they bring guns with them as
well.


> I'd hardly call that
> a well behaved society.


It's hard to behave in a war zone....just ask the court marshalled US
servicemen.


> Would they be better behaved
> with more guns ?
>


They could check negative behavior with more guns.



>>> Lets hear the counter examples. Switzerland ?
>>> Could it perhaps be cultural values rather than guns ?
>>> Nahh !! It says right here that a well armed ...
>> Are you saying your next generation have no cultural values?....that
>> they can't be trusted?
>
> I'm saying your assertion that well armed societies are
> well or better behaved has nothing to suppport it.


I never made that assertation.....I was questioning the trust you have
for the next generation.


> We're better armed than many first world societies already
> and don't have any statistics I'm aware of which support
> your assertion.
>


If everyone were armed, you wouldn't get these mass killings.
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:45:06 +1200, BrianNZ <brian.DeleteThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:

>Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 1:58 pm, BrianNZ <b....DeleteThis@itnz.co.nz> wrote:
>>> Rob Kleinschmidt wrote:
>>
>>>> Horseshit. Afghanistan, Iraq and Somolia are all well armed
>>>> societies. Wanna claim they're well behaved ? Would they
>>>> be better behaved if we distributed more weapons ?
>>> The countries you mention have also been at war for many years....at
>>> home.....unlike US wars.
>>
>> They're at war with each other.
>
>
>Afghanistan has been occupied by the French, the Russians and now the
>'Coalition of the Willing'....and they will fight the next lot to walk
>into their country as well.
>
>Iraq has had it's ups and downs with the US over the last few years?
>
>
>In Somalia the warlords are trying to hold their territory against an
>influx of millions of refugees from neighbouring countries....sort of
>like your illegal Mexican invasion, except they bring guns with them as
>well.

Our illegals wait unitl they get here to buy their guns.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
 >> Stay informed about: 31 DEAD?!? 

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