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20th Birtday - Ride Report

 
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Tiago Rocha3

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Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 243



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:22 am
Post subject: 20th Birtday - Ride Report
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles>dirt (more info?)

My long time friend Eduardo have this 84 XL250R. And this was its
first ride of 2004, so, it was it's 20th birthday party!

Eduardo arrived my home by 8am on the saturday. I was already ready to
go. Eduardo tried to tighteen the nut that holds the footpeg on place
and... snap! He broke the bolt!!!! Great start for a ride! So, we rode
slowly to a nearest bolt store, glad that it was saturday, or else
we'd be screwed and the ride would finish before the start! Well, with
a new bolt in hands, we went to a buddy's shop, he's specialized in
salvaging those big wheels that big trucks use. He have a 400A arc
welder and did a great job of welding that bolt back on place. 10am,
trail here we go!

It was cloudy saturday and while we were welding the bolt, it rained a
little. We arrived the trail and crossed the train bridge, right into
Dutch Trail and then the Jar Trail. To avoid the quicksand spot, we
decided to climb a hill, not actually a trail, but we could do it. I
climbed first and Eduardo came second. His bike was smoking a lot!
While up there, resting and having a scenic view, we
saw two DT200 far away. Eduardo yelled and they stopped and we asked
them to join us. They accepted. Funny thing is that one of the guys
actually lives on my street, for about 25 years and *I never met
him*!!! Amazing. A dirt rider right up on the street and I don't know
the guy.

We went to Itapuama beach, climbed the hotel ruins, then we went show
them a new trail, then we went to the Zombie Woods, through a nasty
downhill, there's an erosion left, and that can be very dangerous! At
least wasn't that slicky. Last time there I hold the handlebars so
tight I thought I was going to crush them... hehehehe. One of the guys
were really slow, but the other wasn't, The guy who lives on my street
is a very fast guy! Right into Zombie Woods, Eduardo leading
and I chasing him closely. Under the large trunk which is fallen
across the trail, over the small trunk, wait... Then the DTs appeared,
first, second, third, brake, turn... I love this trail. And here we
come, the uphill climb along the Zombie Lake.

Eduardo climbed without problems. I was second and crashed... Tried
again and had to jump from the bike and I fell from very high! Great
Gaernes I have protected my foot from the impact. As a side note...
Don't you guys think that MX boots should have a shock absortion
system just like the jogging tennis shoes? I thought on that when I
was riding on a SX track... Well, I crashed but the DT guys climbed
that without any problem.

After the hill climb, we have some more TST and then we ride across a
sand mining place, and back again to the woods. A large fallen tree
made us ride through the woods, off road and off trail. I got lost!!!
Amazing ain't it? I stopped the bike and start whistling. The guy who
lives on my street (and of course I forgot his name) came to rescue
me... :^) After the fallen tree, we met two older (40 & 42 y.o.)
riders with older, late 80s XR250s.

They were resting and wondering how to get over the fallen tree. Of
course, on a woods environment, when a tree goes down, it takes at
least half a dozen other trees, so it gets hard to go over. We chatted
for a long time... Talked about dirt bikes, idle stuff a lot. One of
the guys (the youger, 40) said if we got atacked by cannibals (there
aren't cannibals in BR since 1600 and there aren't indians in those
woods) he would not run, because he's old and fat and if he run
he would get tired and if he didn't run, he could manage to knock down
a couple cannibals... The things dirt riders talk... Smile

So, we were going ahead and they were going from were we come (there
aren't a right way of going on these woods, except on the main trail,
and we were on a secondary trail), but Eduardo's bike started acting
weird. Like clogged main jet. Fine. We dismounted the carb, and it was
clean. Weird. The old guys offered help, and there we went to a car
mechanic on a village near.

There we tryed everything. The last thing: spark plug. We took the
spark plug out of the bike and asked the mechanic to heat the tip with
his acetylene+oxygen welder. He lit the welder and the hose got
disconected from the tip, gaving a loud bang and a hissing sound.

The mechanic was the first to run. The 40 yo guy ran faster than
anyone, when we saw him, he was almost a kilometer away... and he said
minutes before he couldn't run... Smile

Well, we tried to push start the bike, just to have the engine locked!
So... a couple beers to wash the mud and I start pushing Eduardo's
bike. (right foot on his left footpeg). It worked until an uphill,
where I got exhausted. Eduardo rode my bike and I got pushed by him.
Sucks on TST. I got exhausted to the point I could barely breathe. I
really should get into a gym...

About 5pm we were at home. Eduardo left his bike at my home. Sunday
morning I was washing both bikes and Eduardo arrived. We took the
header off the bike and found the problem: the valve adjusting screw
was jammed on the cam and of course, the engine couldn't run. We fixed
that, but found out that the right exhaust valve was burnt and the
valve seal was melted. At least we found the problem with the smoke.

In a couple hours I'm going to shop around and see how much will cost
for a new valve, valve guide...

Does anyone know how to put the valve springs back *without* the
special valve compressor tool? Take them out is easy, just punch it...

Another 70km on the ride log.
--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net

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Craig Faison

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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1240



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:22 am
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Tiago Rocha wrote:

 > Does anyone know how to put the valve springs back *without* the
 > special valve compressor tool? Take them out is easy, just punch it...

I have a piece of PVC pipe with a couple of notches cut out at the
bottom... the pipe fits on top of the valve spring and I just push down on
it with my hands and body weight. Once I compress the spring, the notches
allow me to put the valve keeper thingies in w/a small pair of needle nose
pliers/screwdriver/luck. It's not exactly pretty, but it works better than
you'd think and is more than adequate for how infrequently I do that job.

This is with the head off the motor and on a bench...

Craig

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Craig Faison

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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1240



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:42 pm
Post subject: For SAKE!! Holiday plans etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Tiago Rocha wrote:

  > >This is with the head off the motor and on a bench...
 >
 > Great idea!!! Thanks!!!!

I seem to remember giving another helpful answer within the last couple of
months... this is getting way too regular.

People always argue with the suggestion, but it's worked very well for me
and I'm not a big guy - i.e., one doesn't need an abnormal amount of
strength or body mass to do it. I've even put a 20 valve yamaha head
together this way.

Glad to be of assistance.

Oh, FWIW, are you using the hammer & socket trick to disassemble? I've
always done that too, but I've heard it argued that you run the risk of
the keeper damaging the valve stem (scratching it) doing it that way. If
the scratch is bad enough, it could damage the valve guide or seal. The
PVC pipe method will work for disassembly too, but it's not as much fun or
as fast.

Craig
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Tiago Rocha3

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Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 243



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:03 pm
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:09:39 -0500, Craig Faison
wrote:


 >This is with the head off the motor and on a bench...

Great idea!!! Thanks!!!!

 >Craig

--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a>
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Jeff Deeney

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Since: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 428



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:14 pm
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"Tiago Rocha"
wrote in message

 > Eduardo arrived my home by 8am on the saturday. I was already ready to
 > go. Eduardo tried to tighteen the nut that holds the footpeg on place
 > and... snap! He broke the bolt!!!! Great start for a ride! So, we rode
 > slowly to a nearest bolt store, glad that it was saturday, or else
 > we'd be screwed and the ride would finish before the start! Well, with
 > a new bolt in hands, we went to a buddy's shop, he's specialized in
 > salvaging those big wheels that big trucks use. He have a 400A arc
 > welder and did a great job of welding that bolt back on place. 10am,
 > trail here we go!

Make sure the base of that forged footpeg bracket is absolutely
flat. Otherwise you will keep breaking bolts. Hold a straight-edge
against the surface to check flatness. If not flat, take to a machine shop
to be milled or ground.

 > climbed first and Eduardo came second. His bike was smoking a lot!

Uh-oh.

 > About 5pm we were at home. Eduardo left his bike at my home. Sunday
 > morning I was washing both bikes and Eduardo arrived. We took the
 > header off the bike and found the problem: the valve adjusting screw
 > was jammed on the cam and of course, the engine couldn't run. We fixed
 > that, but found out that the right exhaust valve was burnt and the
 > valve seal was melted. At least we found the problem with the smoke.

Teach him how to properly adjust the valves & tighten everything back
down. The Honda valve adjusters are of a hardened steel. When over
tightened the threads crumble, rather than bend. I prefer to keep an
extra adjuster around, because I really like to get the lock-nuts tight.

 > Does anyone know how to put the valve springs back *without* the
 > special valve compressor tool? Take them out is easy, just punch it...

There are many creative ways to do this, but you will need something
to compress the spring. I've built a couple of different things to do
this. The best thing is to get a large C-clamp & build something to
press on the outside of the spring cap, while allowing access to the
spring retainer. I built a little adaptor from some copper pipe fittings.

Good luck with the repairs.

-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
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Tiago Rocha3

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Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 243



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:14 pm
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:14:51 GMT, "Jeff Deeney"
wrote:
 >
 >Make sure the base of that forged footpeg bracket is absolutely
 >flat. Otherwise you will keep breaking bolts. Hold a straight-edge
 >against the surface to check flatness. If not flat, take to a machine shop
 >to be milled or ground.

I'll telll him... For what I understand, this is the third bold he
breaks...


 >Teach him how to properly adjust the valves & tighten everything back
 >down. The Honda valve adjusters are of a hardened steel. When over
 >tightened the threads crumble, rather than bend. I prefer to keep an
 >extra adjuster around, because I really like to get the lock-nuts tight.

My guess is that he forgot to re-tighten the locking nut...


 >
 >Good luck with the repairs.

thanks! I'm learning a lot with all those repairs I'm needing to do
lately...


--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a>
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Tiago Rocha3

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Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 243



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:59 pm
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:42:25 -0500, Craig Faison
wrote:
 >
 >Glad to be of assistance.

thanks! I'll shop for the new valve this week... Lets see if I can put
it back together by the weekend...

 >
 >Oh, FWIW, are you using the hammer & socket trick to disassemble? I've
 >always done that too, but I've heard it argued that you run the risk of
 >the keeper damaging the valve stem (scratching it) doing it that way. If
 >the scratch is bad enough, it could damage the valve guide or seal. The
 >PVC pipe method will work for disassembly too, but it's not as much fun or
 >as fast.

I used a socket and a rubber mallet, I didn't punched, just let the
weight of the mallet on the socket... Lightly... I see the problem
when you hit it hard, but it doesn't take a hard hit to disassemble
it. Perhaps I should check the spring lenghts too...

I guess the valve guide is bad, because it isn't sealing 100%, it's
not snug as the other valve (I've disassembled that to compare). Gotta
change both seals and this particular guide. I'm not doing the guide
replacement myself, I'll send it to a shop.

 >Craig

--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a>
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Craig Faison

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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1240



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:13 pm
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004, Tiago Rocha wrote:

 > Another question...
 >
 > The other two valves, which are in place, with the springs and the
 > seal, I'll have to disassemble those too? I think so, the seal is
 > rubber, they would melt at 200C... No? Okay, the engine temps are
 > high... Just wondering. Now I'll look for a dry ice suply... If I put
 > it on the freezer overnight, could it work?

FWIW, I had a valve guide replaced on a FZR1000 head once. A
machinist/mechanic buddy of mine told me to "just press it in" as though
it were no big deal. I was apprehensive, and since he lived a few hours
away having him do it wasn't an easy option. I ended up taking it to a
local one-man race shop (very well respected guy/place) and as it turned
out, he pressed it in without any heat/cold. It was worth the $15 that he
charged me to not worry about it, but now I know that it's not an
impossible thing to do.

I've heard it argued that a freezer doesn't get things cold enough to make
a difference, but I still put wheel bearings in the freezer overnight
before I put 'em in (if I remember to do it). I dunno if it helps, but it
gives me something to do.

Craig
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PymerOne

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Since: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 291



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:16 am
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"Tiago Rocha"
schreef in bericht
 > My long time friend Eduardo have this 84 XL250R. And this was its
 > first ride of 2004, so, it was it's 20th birthday party!
 >

<<snipping>>
Great report Tiago.
Hope Eduardo gets his bike going (with little $$ involved) soon.
Work on you uphilltechnique would you?
otherwise i canīt brag to my friends anymore about the brazilian DBChamp.

Grtz, P1

 > Another 70km on the ride log.
 > --
 > Tiago Rocha
 > Recife - Brasil
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</font" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</font</a>>
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Tiago Rocha3

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Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 243



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:07 am
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:16:22 +0100, "PymerOne"
wrote:

 >


  >> My long time friend Eduardo have this 84 XL250R. And this was its
  >> first ride of 2004, so, it was it's 20th birthday party!
  >>
 >
 ><<snipping>>
 >Great report Tiago.

thanks!

 >Hope Eduardo gets his bike going (with little $$ involved) soon.

Old bike, the less money involved, the better... Smile

 >Work on you uphilltechnique would you?
 >otherwise i canīt brag to my friends anymore about the brazilian DBChamp.

There's a root there... Not an excuse, but that root make things
difficult... Next time I'll try to go slower... Smile

 >Grtz, P1

--
Tiago Rocha
Recife - Brasil
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net" target="_blank">www.diariodastrilhas.cjb.net</a>
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Craig Faison

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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1240



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:49 pm
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On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Tiago Rocha wrote:

 > Yesterday I went to the a place that does that job. Cheap, they'll
 > charge me usd 3.5, to replace the guide and do the finish job on the
 > valve... He said he will have to "mill" it to make a perfect match
 > with the valve seat...

At that price, it's surely worth the piece of mind to have them do it.

Good luck,
Craig
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Herman8

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Since: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:19 pm
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Tiago Rocha" wrote:
  > Does anyone know how to put the valve
springs back *without* the
 > special valve compressor tool? Take them out is easy, just punch it...

2 hammers with wooden handle: put the handles on the outside of the spring
and use the "head"
in the palm of your hands and your "weight" to push.
Herman.
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